Average of polls has trump with more approval than Obama at this point in presidencies

a reply to: Grambler

My point stands, you're grabbing all the worse examples (that no one takes seriously) and coming up with an insane figure that would be impossible to fulfill.

Yes, Bernie would undoubtedly increase spending (something I'm very against). But the 100's of trillions is a bit hyperbolic.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Grambler

My point stands, you're grabbing all the worse examples (that no one takes seriously) and coming up with an insane figure that would be impossible to fulfill.

Yes, Bernie would undoubtedly increase spending (something I'm very against). But the 100's of trillions is a bit hyperbolic.

Give me a ball park figure on totally revamping every building in the United States to run off of new energy sources?

Or how about building enough green power plants to remove every single nuclear or coal plant?

Or how about replacing all combustion engine vehicles?

Now Bernie says his own health care plan will cost 40 trillion

So if the green new deal and free college would cost 60 trillion which is a very very low estsimate, that puts his spending over a hundred trillion dollars.

a reply to: tinner07

maybe that is why they wanted to impeach President Trump the day after he was voted in, and already had signs waiting to fight the choice of supreme court nominee before he was named.


yeah, they sure got a chance to prove themselves huh?


Very Tolerant.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

The Green New Deal would cost a typical household more than $70,000 in the first year of implementation, approximately $45,000 for each of the next four years, and more than $37,000 each year thereafter. In Alaska, estimated costs are much higher: more than $100,000 in year one, $73,000 in the subsequent four years, and more than $67,000 each year thereafter,” said the study posted on CEI’s webpage.

The goal of the Green New Deal is to eliminate the use of carbon-based fuels and industries.

The overall price tag of the Green New Deal in other studies have been pegged at $93 trillion. It would result in gas taxes of $10-$13 per gallon.

www.washingtonexaminer.com...

And to be as fair as possible to Bernie, he does still support Aoc and her deal, but he estimates his climate only proposal to cost 16.3 trillion

Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders has released a $16.3 trillion climate plan that builds on the Green New Deal and calls for the United States to move to renewable energy across the economy by 2050 and declare climate change a national emergency.



While the Vermont senator had already endorsed the sweeping Democratic proposal to combat climate change and had teamed up with Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York on climate legislation, Sanders' climate plan provides the most detail yet on how he envisions the climate change moonshot taking shape if he is elected president.

www.usatoday.com...

That is only the climate portion though. He has supported aocs deal and it’s other expensive measures such as guaranteed government jobs, racial justice economic policies, etc.

Politics is about perception. Of course trump is going to score big among his base but the rest of the country isn't so confident in his leadership.

news.gallup.com...

Even the GOP is pulling back from the trump presidency; many aren't even going to seek reelection. He can't even put together a stable cabinet.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

a reply to: olaru12

that is assuming the poll is correct.


and, it is not


sooo.............

originally posted by: thedigirati
a reply to: olaru12

that is assuming the poll is correct.


and, it is not


sooo.............

I get it...

If the poll favors trump, it's reliable.

If if it doesn't it's fake news, media chicanery, and DNC treason.

sooooo.......

chicanery? wtf....

a reply to: Grambler

Caveat, I'm not sold on any of this, but I'm all for having a discussion about it... So this isn't me advocating for any or all of it.

Give me a ball park figure on totally revamping every building in the United States to run off of new energy sources?

You wouldn't have to change the buildings, electricity is electricity and can use the same delivery.

Or how about building enough green power plants to remove every single nuclear or coal plant?

This is the more important question, which negates the above... But this will cost money, and in my opinion the free market should be the deciding factor for at least coal. Nuclear is a tricky one, we will obviously have to find some technologies to replace it... Though Nuclear is clean until it comes to waste disposal, but this same problem exists with lithium from car batteries should we transition now... Both sides have errors in their visions.

Or how about replacing all combustion engine vehicles?

Depends on the timeline, but if it was done over 30-40 years, virtually no added cost.

Now Bernie says his own health care plan will cost 40 trillion

Again, I'm not a fan of the structure, but spending on healthcare would be a bit different than spending on many other things as we would get a return from it. That said, I haven't seen a proposal on national health care I could get behind.

So if the green new deal and free college would cost 60 trillion which is a very very low estsimate, that puts his spending over a hundred trillion dollars.

Yes, but then you would have to offset people not paying out of pocket for health care or college... The former being the number one reason for personal bankruptcy, the latter isn't forgiven by bankruptcy but often resembles a mortgage.

But there is certainly an argument for a candidate who proposes energy independence (which we're getting close to under Trump, but remember these are limited resources) which would alleviate our foreign policy protecting energy security. Health care reformation where insurance companies are gouged by big pharma, footing the bill to citizens. And finally, forcing already state funded schools to at least be accessible if they want to continue receiving tax dollars. That platform could not increase federal spending while addressing said areas.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

The idea of offset costs to the individual is reasonable

But I was honest when I said his very one estimates of spending are over 50 trillion, and that’s without the green new deal he is pushing for

And of course he is going to give as low as numbers as possible for his own estimates

Our annual budget is close to 4 trillion

Defense spending is about 700 billion

If we totally eliminate that (which would be a huge mistake we need some military spending) and spend it on bernie plan

And we assume Bernie’s numbers of say 50 trillion (low estimate by his own numbers) is over 10 years

That means Bernie’s plan still cost more than the entirety of what we spend as a country every year

And we would still have to pay the rest of the current spending

So we would have no military spending, and have to more than double what we spend every year

That’s not even touching the green new deal

You say if we gradually change over 40 years it would be no substantial cost

That is the status quo, as we are gradually changing

The green new deal suggest fossil fuel elimination in ten years

I already revised the cost estimate per family per year just for that, including 10 a gallon gas

And this would effect the poorest people who can’t afgord new non gas cars the most

So families would pay an additional 70000 a year,l just for the green new deal plus have their taxes sky rocket to cover the rest of Bernie’s plans

I think once the people find this out, moderates will not look on him too fondly

originally posted by: tinner07
a reply to: manuelram16

Trolls will start to spin this in 1, 2, 3, ......

the trolls will be here to star and flag....because it is a pro trump thread...

Man! almost missed the call by seconds....

a reply to: Grambler

That's a pretty good breakdown, one that I'd agree with.

And for the record, when I say reduction in foreign policy footprint, I mean stop endless wars that fail anyways... Bring back troops, cut spending while strengthening our defensive ability.

The only saving grace any on the left would have to propose these new deals going forward is being able to sell us on being able to collect federal taxes from corporations. As it stands in the establishment camps, they're OK with allowing the current practices to keep business at home and settle for the income tax from the employees... Which isn't cool IMO. That still wouldn't account for the additional spending... But if someone really wanted to be honest about a platform, there could be a comprise that benefits the nation as a whole while looking ahead towards it's future rather than living in the moment.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: thedigirati
a reply to: olaru12

that is assuming the poll is correct.


and, it is not


sooo.............

I get it...

If the poll favors trump, it's reliable.

If if it doesn't it's fake news, media chicanery, and DNC treason.

sooooo.......

chicanery? wtf....

Real clear politics from the op aggregates multiple polls instead of using just one

That doesn’t mean your one poll may not be right, and the others wrong

But there is more of a chance if accuracy with a sling multiple polls

That’s what your 538 site did

Even it has trump only one point behind Obama

It’s using almost all the same polls as my source

The difference is yours adds more weight to some pills than other

For example, if you select only likely voters polls on 638, trumps approval bumps up to over 43 percent which is higher than Obama’s mark in their own polls

My point was Obama and trump were both basically at the same level of approval

Yet look at the difference with how the media portrays them

No way in hell Bernie will get the nomination. That's just GOP hyperbolic scare tactics.

2020 will be epic...

a reply to: CriticalStinker

I am with you on ending these regime change wars and a lot of Blair in defense contract spending

If I were in charge, I probably wouldn’t cut defense spending yet though

I would redirect that money from foreign bases and defense contracts to protecting our own country and paying our veterans what they are worth and providing the best health care possible for them

Bernie’s plan land are way to expensive and frankly not achievable without bankrupting the country and average person

I could forgive this I’m yne name of idealism; but he’s a hypocrite

I’m not going to allow some guy pretend he is more moral than me because he wants to have the government control massive areas of my life for the greater good, when he doesn’t live by the same ethics he wants to force on me

So sell your sports car and two of your houses, move to an area that allows illegal immigrants, stop flying in jets

And then I can at least respect bernie and just think he has terrible plans

a reply to: CriticalStinker

And just to end on the insanity f the green new deal

Check out this thread go just how crazy it is

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It’s foes say things like revamp every building in the usuals way more crazy stuff than that

originally posted by: tinner07

Considering Trump has the entire MSM trashing him nonstop, daily, for 3 1/2 years...

a reply to: IAMTAT
do you think it is because he is an idiot and and ass? could that be why?

Obama was an idiot and an ass...and the MSM worshiped and praised him.
So...No.

I think one reason trumps approval may have gone up, and will continue to is the insanity of his potential opponents

I like yang, seems like a good guy

He just now said his and other Dems climate plans would include government targeting cattle to make it expensive so less people eat it (will affect the poor the most) and their plans mean we might not even be able to own cars (would devastate rural USA)

And he is one of the more reasonable Dems!

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: thedigirati
a reply to: olaru12

that is assuming the poll is correct.


and, it is not


sooo.............

I get it...

If the poll favors trump, it's reliable.

If if it doesn't it's fake news, media chicanery, and DNC treason.

sooooo.......

chicanery? wtf....

As a guy who travels all over for gigs, I can tell you I have seen more Trump 2020 signs and flags EVERYWHERE. I predict landslide...43 to 45 states.

a reply to: Grambler

But you did fail to mention that Obama beat trump every single other month during their presidencies???

Lol

That is the logical conclusion if people are hyping him beating Obama... that he has lost every other month..

a reply to: theatreboy

I predict he finds a reason not to run again..


If he runs again and loses, his first victory will be viewed as a fluke. So he will lose a lot of the bragging rights he has earned for winning the first time...


I think he largely won because the media spent the whole time telling Americans, “don’t worry.. no need to vote.. he won’t win anyway.”


This time everyone knows he can win..

All those people who felt icky voting for Hillary , so they abstained, will not feel icky this time..


And let’s not forget, Trump BARELY won against HILLARY F’N CLINTON... the least likeable politician in American history, who’s main claim to fame is she was cuckholded by Bill.. which literally portrays hillary like a primal manifestation of weakness.


And he still lost the popular vote by 3 million people..



If trump runs again and wins, sure he will get more “cool points”, but not as many as he will lose if he doesn’t win..



So logically , imho he has more to lose than he does to win by running again..