This is what socialized medicine looks like

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Wayfarer

If they offered Socialized Medicine alongside private healthcare, would you mind that some of your taxes were funding the national healthcare? In that scenario, you still have your personal choice, and the state is still empowered (regardless of opinion on effectiveness) to provide healthcare to the indigent.

It is not personal choice is they are using my hard earned money in a way that I have no choice over.
Basically you are asking, am I OK paying for healthcare twice? No

Lets presume your taxes are unchanged from now (if necessary to understanding we can agree the money is funneled from somewhere else in the budget - like defense or subsidies). You pay no more to the government than you are already doing, you just now suddenly have the choice of zero future expense government healthcare, or costly (and in your opinion superior) private healthcare.

a reply to: Wayfarer

Lets presume your taxes are unchanged from now (if necessary to understanding we can agree the money is funneled from somewhere else in the budget - like defense or subsidies). You pay no more to the government than you are already doing, you just now suddenly have the choice of zero future expense government healthcare, or costly (and in your opinion superior) private healthcare.

You'd have to presume that I'm OK with how I'm being taxed right now. Which i'm not.

That's like asking me, If the government used what they were wasting on texting people not to use chewing tobacco (which they really did) and instead to text them about not binge drinking would I be OK with that. No

Someone else brought things up here that I am much more for than socialized medicine like:

going after the insurance industry
going after big pharma
the lobbies for both



www.cheatsheet.com...

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Wayfarer

Lets presume your taxes are unchanged from now (if necessary to understanding we can agree the money is funneled from somewhere else in the budget - like defense or subsidies). You pay no more to the government than you are already doing, you just now suddenly have the choice of zero future expense government healthcare, or costly (and in your opinion superior) private healthcare.

You'd have to presume that I'm OK with how I'm being taxed right now. Which i'm not.

That's like asking me, If the government used what they were wasting on texting people not to use chewing tobacco (which they really did) and instead to text them about not binge drinking would I be OK with that. No

Someone else brought things up here that I am much more for than socialized medicine like:

going after the insurance industry
going after big pharma
the lobbies for both



www.cheatsheet.com...

Ah, my apologies then (I'm admittedly not familiar with your tax preferences or I would have couched that differently). Can I safely assume then that you fall somewhere on the spectrum in the "Less taxes the better, no taxes the best"?

a reply to: Wayfarer

Ah, my apologies then (I'm admittedly not familiar with your tax preferences or I would have couched that differently). Can I safely assume then that you fall somewhere on the spectrum in the "Less taxes the better, no taxes the best"?

No, I do believe that in a civilized society we do need taxes. I'm sure every person has their thoughts on how much is too much.

I am also for fiscal responsibility and good use of those taxes. I'm for fiscal transparency.

I'll give a perfect example of this. (I lived this, so this is a real world example) In Illinois a middle class house is about 350K, the taxes on that house are around 12K a year, In Florida that same house has taxes of 3K. Those taxes both go to Schools, firemen, police etc. How can there be such a wild price difference. One word, fiscal responsibility. I can 100% guarantee you that school is Florida has newer equipment, books, and facilities.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Ok I think I understand you (and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it).

Is there no scenario you would acquiesce to socialized medicine alongside privatized healthcare? Perhaps something along the lines of a personal selection ballot that lets you allocate whether you want X% of your taxes to go towards government private healthcare subsidies (to help keep costs down), or towards socialized healthcare that you would then be required to partake in? In that way choice is maintained, and although you pay the same either way, you feel personally empowered that your specific healthcare dollars aren't funding other peoples healthcare?

NHS and the majority of it's staff are fantastic. I've never minded paying extra tax for what they do and have done for people that I know. Paying for all healthcare as and when you need it seems crazy to me. I couldn't imagine how it would cripple my family if I were injured and couldn't work AND couldn't afford healthcare.

a reply to: Wayfarer

There are two schools of thought. Is healthcare a right, or a want?

There is not a way to have socialized medicine without taking money from the middle & upper classes.

When you are poor, you can't contribute. So if you have a bunch of poor people contributing to healthcare what would you end up with?

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Wayfarer



When you are poor, you can't contribute. So if you have a bunch of poor people contributing to healthcare what would you end up with?

The Insane, drunks, junkies, vets, single homeless mothers, senior citizens, people living in their cars, poor sick people on the streets spreading disease.

We all pay for that in one way or another. I don't mind paying a portion of my taxes to pay to clean up the streets. I know it won't happen, it will only get worse because societies human castaways are easily ignored and despised.


I have never seen so many homeless in my life. Worthless scum, they deserve what they get right?

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Wayfarer

There are two schools of thought. Is healthcare a right, or a want?

There is not a way to have socialized medicine without taking money from the middle & upper classes.

When you are poor, you can't contribute. So if you have a bunch of poor people contributing to healthcare what would you end up with?

Again, I'm not sure what you are talking about. Of course poor people can contribute.
If you are a wage earner in the UK then you make NI contributions and pay some measure of tax. Poor people pay into the NHS. If you are self-employed you need to pay taxes and NI contributions. Money comes in from many places and the safety net continues to exist.

a reply to: olaru12

The Insane, drunks, junkies, vets, single homeless mothers, senior citizens, people living in their cars, poor sick people on the streets spreading disease. We all pay for that in one way or another. I don't mind paying a portion of my taxes to pay to clean up the streets. I know it won't happen, it will only get worse because societies human castaways are easily ignored and despised. I have never seen so many homeless in my life. Worthless scum, they deserve what they get right?

Nope I don't feel that way at all. The vast majority of homeless problem is due to drug abuse. Until we are honest with the cause, it will never get fixed.

I also don't think socialized medicine will help that problem. We have medicare/medicaid for the poor and how is that working? Homelessness and drug abuse is growing.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Again, I'm not sure what you are talking about. Of course poor people can contribute. If you are a wage earner in the UK then you make NI contributions and pay some measure of tax. Poor people pay into the NHS. If you are self-employed you need to pay taxes and NI contributions. Money comes in from many places and the safety net continues to exist.

I was refering to Wayfarer question, if a person was allowed to choose. To either pay for a socialized system or private.

In the UK everyone pays, that's why it works, in Wayfarers question only those that choose would pay into the system
Let's not be silly, the majority would be low /no income and some middle class. That is not enough to fund it. That's a fact.

This was a fascinating read this morning.
Put simply, what if hospitals made their own medicines in an effort to keep the cost of drugs down?

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
This was a fascinating read this morning.
Put simply, what if hospitals made their own medicines in an effort to keep the cost of drugs down?

I'd be all for it, but.....................I have worked for big pharma. Making drugs is so much more than just mixing ingredients.
If we don't like China taking intellectual information, we really wouldn't like hospitals doing the same with drugs. Drugs go through years of testing, years of trials. To do that and just have someone basically steal it is not right. Research and development would stop overnight.

They are patented, it's not a matter of just copying it. From your article:

Regardless of the outcome of such discussions, something needs to be done. Having pharmacies self-compound medicines is not a sustainable model – it might reduce incentives for developing drugs for rare conditions.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Nope, this is what comes from having a two-headed snake that we call political parties in control of the county that cares more about political expedience than taking care of our veterans.