**Calling Isaac Koi** - UFOs are real, US Navy FINALLY admits, never should have been released to pu

TBH I have more questions about TTSA than I do the Pentagon videos.

THIS RIGHT HERE

a reply to: Rob808

For the Mick West Fans

originally posted by: Rob808
Look, I want to believe. But what so far do we have evidence of? A few pixels the navy can't identify that move uniquely on the screen. How does that LEAP over any reasonable and even some exciting explainations to evidence of zeta ridiculians visiting? Call it a "meme" if belittling logic helps you feel better but for those of us seeking the reality of the situation it seems appropriate to point out what is and isn't proved to avoid rampant speculation and disinformation.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

So you choose to ignore all the witness reports from radar operators, pilots and so on?

originally posted by: Rob808
Look, I want to believe. But what so far do we have evidence of? A few pixels the navy can't identify that move uniquely on the screen. How does that LEAP over any reasonable and even some exciting explainations to evidence of zeta ridiculians visiting? Call it a "meme" if belittling logic helps you feel better but for those of us seeking the reality of the situation it seems appropriate to point out what is and isn't proved to avoid rampant speculation and disinformation.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

There is eyewitness testimony that goes along with the video of course, which includes a massive craft under the water (and the tic-tac object above it). I always hear there is never actual evidence. There is a ludicrous amount of evidence available for UFOs (being something other than conventional aircraft). In court, MANY juries come to their decision not by a smoking gun, but by a preponderance of evidence. The judge when you serve jury duty will always point that out as well. You don't need a smoking gun. People just want one.

For an example - I just served on a jury for 3 weeks for a 100 million + lawsuit. The basis was a verbal contract of which there was no direct proof of. And yet, by the end of the trial, we decided there WAS a broken verbal contract, based on the preponderance of evidence. No recordings, no direct witnesses, yet.. still found guilty of breaking a contract (and they were not awarded much at any rate, but for other reasons).

There are endless witnesses, radar returns, pilot reports, military reports, photos, videos etc. for decades now. That is indeed, a preponderance of evidence.

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect
a reply to: celltypespecific

He already lost his credibility when he said that Mogul and crash test dummies were an acceptable excuse for Roswell.

He and his anti-alien crowd here should know that all these tickytack "videos" have human eyewitnesses that go along with them.

There's no confirmed eyewitness for object in the Nimitz video which doesn't show any exceptional flight characteristics. This thread isn't about Roswell but bringing that up says more about you than anybody else.

originally posted by: fleabit
There is eyewitness testimony that goes along with the video of course

No, there is not any eyewitness testimony which is confirmed to be associated with that Nimitz video. Who is saying he can't confirm it's the same object Fravor saw? The witness who made the video and never saw the object, only the fuzzy images of it on his screen!

thenimitzencounters.com...

LT.__________ was clear in that he couldn’t confirm that it was the same object as described by FASTEAGLE flight. He never had visual, only seeing the object via the FLIR.

So it's entirely possible that there was NO eyewitness to the object seen in the video. Why would anybody assume it's the same object Fravor saw, when it shows no incredible capabilities as Fravor described? There's nothing extraordinary about the performance of the object in the video, every claim otherwise is a misinterpretation.

I find Fravor's description interesting but people saying the object in the video is the same thing need to cut the crap, Fravor could have made video but he didn't bother to turn his camera on, so we have no video of what he saw, unfortunately. If we did, it might be a lot more interesting than the rather boring video we have made by another pilot, at a later time, in a different location, of an object not doing anything interesting, which he says he can't confirm is the same thing Fravor saw.

originally posted by: fleabit

originally posted by: Rob808
Look, I want to believe. But what so far do we have evidence of? A few pixels the navy can't identify that move uniquely on the screen. How does that LEAP over any reasonable and even some exciting explainations to evidence of zeta ridiculians visiting? Call it a "meme" if belittling logic helps you feel better but for those of us seeking the reality of the situation it seems appropriate to point out what is and isn't proved to avoid rampant speculation and disinformation.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

There are endless witnesses, radar returns, pilot reports, military reports, photos, videos etc. for decades now. That is indeed, a preponderance of evidence.

Indeed it is. Indeed....it is.

Well said.

originally posted by: fleabit

originally posted by: Rob808
Look, I want to believe. But what so far do we have evidence of? A few pixels the navy can't identify that move uniquely on the screen. How does that LEAP over any reasonable and even some exciting explainations to evidence of zeta ridiculians visiting? Call it a "meme" if belittling logic helps you feel better but for those of us seeking the reality of the situation it seems appropriate to point out what is and isn't proved to avoid rampant speculation and disinformation.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

There is eyewitness testimony that goes along with the video of course,

And the eyewitness in question is and has never had so much as a negative mark in his 24 year military career. Enlisting at 17 in the Marines, serving as a midshipmen, then transferring to the Naval Academy, ultimately becoming a fighter pilot for 18 of those 24 years with 5 combat deployments. FYI for the uninformed. You don't receive orders from command to fly active duty combat missions in a $70 million dollar fighter jet equipped with the (then) latest radar technology and advanced weapons systems if you exhibit even the slightest signs of mental instability.

A 24 year impeccable military career and people call this man a liar? Or think he doesn't have the qualifications to distinguish a UAP from a fighter jet? And let's do some quick math here. Fravor served for 24 years. The Nimitz encounter occurred in 2004. He retired in 2006. Meaning he had 16 years of flying fighter jets before the encounter. 16 years sitting in a fighter jet cockpit is a very long time to establish the utmost of credibility. The man is above reproach.

It's absolutely laughable what some people will tell themselves in an attempt to justify their own blind ignorance.

originally posted by: gortex

The videos are real but what they show is unknown , according to a spokesman for Information Warfare.

We know exactly what they are. I have to wonder why after decades of silence the U.S. government finally comes clean "PARTIALLY." Is something happening, or about to happen with ufos? We have to wait and see I guess.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

HUH! Real what? Real videos? Real fake videos? Real real videos? Real short and crappy videos? In what capacity are they considered real?

That kind of leaves a big gap in interpretation there. And if this is about that tic tac thing? At most its a clip of something.

But to tell the truth I seen that vid on this site a few months ago I think. And the next few days after i heard about it, there was a guy on facebook that captured one of these so called UFOs that made the one the NAVY or whoever supposedly released look like garbage. It was round, it was zipping around back and forth across the skyline, sometimes disappearing then reappearing, and when he zoomed in on it, it looked like a bubble or sphere of light with a smaller sphere of light inside. It went on for like 5 minutes before people got bored and moved on.

So ya. Wooo! Who knows, maybe aliens, maybe chinese lantern, or some guy with a fancy zippy drone, or maybe swamp gas. Lets just say that the capability's of that guys cellphone, far outworked that Navys million dollar cameras they put in there jets and warships, which they release 10 second footage now and then.

I don't have an iota of confidence in the veracity of the US Navy, Army, Air force, CIA or any of them. And certainly not the government-connected group known as TTSA.

This is public relations propaganda

originally posted by: 1point92AU

originally posted by: fleabit

originally posted by: Rob808
Look, I want to believe. But what so far do we have evidence of? A few pixels the navy can't identify that move uniquely on the screen. How does that LEAP over any reasonable and even some exciting explainations to evidence of zeta ridiculians visiting? Call it a "meme" if belittling logic helps you feel better but for those of us seeking the reality of the situation it seems appropriate to point out what is and isn't proved to avoid rampant speculation and disinformation.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Well said!
There is eyewitness testimony that goes along with the video of course,

And the eyewitness in question is and has never had so much as a negative mark in his 24 year military career. Enlisting at 17 in the Marines, serving as a midshipmen, then transferring to the Naval Academy, ultimately becoming a fighter pilot for 18 of those 24 years with 5 combat deployments. FYI for the uninformed. You don't receive orders from command to fly active duty combat missions in a $70 million dollar fighter jet equipped with the (then) latest radar technology and advanced weapons systems if you exhibit even the slightest signs of mental instability.

A 24 year impeccable military career and people call this man a liar? Or think he doesn't have the qualifications to distinguish a UAP from a fighter jet? And let's do some quick math here. Fravor served for 24 years. The Nimitz encounter occurred in 2004. He retired in 2006. Meaning he had 16 years of flying fighter jets before the encounter. 16 years sitting in a fighter jet cockpit is a very long time to establish the utmost of credibility. The man is above reproach.

It's absolutely laughable what some people will tell themselves in an attempt to justify their own blind ignorance.

Excellent post!

originally posted by: 1point92AU
A 24 year impeccable military career and people call this man a liar? Or think he doesn't have the qualifications to distinguish a UAP from a fighter jet?

I don't think he was a liar, nor do I think the other pilot who was also an eyewitness who contradicted Fravor of the speed of the object was a liar. This is just an example of how two different witnesses can witness the exact same event and come away with different perceptions because human perception is unreliable and that's why scientists can't take eyewitness accounts as scientifically accurate, well usually they don't but I see that recently a few scientists tried to do this but I think most scientists would point out the flaws in that approach.

There's a big difference between these two reports by Fravor and the other pilot, and both can't be right. It doesn't mean either is lying, but it does mean eyes are not reliable data taking devices, I'm sure they both reported what they think they saw, but at least one of them has to be wrong. Emphasis mine:

thenimitzencounters.com...

CDR Fravor stated that the object was “holding like a Harrier.” (Referring to the AV-8l3 jet aircraft, which is capable of hovering and Vertical/Short Takeoff and Landing (V/STOL) via thrust vectoring.) According to CDR Fravor, the object’s shape was like an elongated egg or a ‘Tic Tac’ and had a discernable midline horizontal axis. However, the object was uniformly white across the entire body. It was approximately 46 feet in length. LT.__________ described it as “solid white, smooth, with no edges. It was uniformly colored with no nacelles, pylons, or wings.” When asked to describe the appearance, if it glowed or reflected sunlight he said, “neither, it looked like it had a white candy-coated shell, almost like a white board.” His report differs from CDR Fravor in that he reported the object traveling level at approximately 500-1000 feet at approximately 500 knots.

Not only that but several people including Mick West and others have analyzed Fravor's account and found some inconsistencies where his account of events is not self-consistent. It could again be mis-perception issues, or mis-communication issues, but you can read more on metabunk if you have any interest in the issues with Fravor's account, which you probably don't. Again I don't think West or anybody is accusing Fravor of lying, that's a disingenuous straw man argument you invented, since you don't want to admit pilots have misperceptions and that Fravor and the other eyewitness don't agree on whether the object was hovering or traveling at 500 knots, a huge difference, and that there are other problems with Fravor's account.

Also, aren't there other people involved in the event besides the other pilot, who also disagree with Fravor? Apparently Kevin Day was also involved in the events and his account and Fravor's account aren't consistent, are they?

The Pentagon’s UFOs

Fravor spoke at the recent UFO Fest in McMinnville, Oregon (held annually to honor the famous Trent UFO Photos, taken just outside that town). Reporter George Knapp and documentary filmmaker Jeremy Corbell were also on the panel. Fravor sharply criticized the accounts of certain other people who were involved and have been speaking about the incident. He seemed to be singling out the account of the radar operator, Kevin Day, as being non-factual. He dismissed claims of Air Force personnel coming on board the Nimitz and confiscating evidence as being untrue. Fravor also referred to Dave Beaty’s “Nimitz UFO Encounters” documentary as a “cartoon.” This prompted Knapp to say to Fravor, “I guess you’re being diplomatic, but some of the stories and claims that have been made by people, who may have been on those ships, are just bull#.”

So let's say Fravor probably saw something interesting, but I find it hard to take any eyewitness account at face value when there are multiple eyewitnesses and they disagree with each other on significant points. This is why having video would be nice, though even video shot from a moving aircraft can create the illusion of motion for a hovering object, as has been mentioned regarding a TTSA released video, but at least videos can be studied and misperceptions of them possibly corrected, if the video contains enough data. It would be nice if Fravor had turned on his helmet-mounted camera system and recorded what he saw, but he didn't think of taking video, so we have no confirmed video of what he saw.

The link above mentions that UFO researcher Hynek found pilots to be among the least reliable eyewitnesses, which doesn't mean they lie, just that they have more misperceptions than most of his other witnesses:

Much is made of the fact that reports were generated by highly trained military pilots, some with combat experience. The implication is that their observations are far more credible than those of just ordinary folks. But longtime UFO researchers recall that Dr. J. Allen Hynek, the former U. S. Air Force Project Blue Book scientific consultant, wrote “Surprisingly, commercial and military pilots appear to make relatively poor witnesses” (The Hynek UFO Report, 1977, p. 271). The pilot is, and must be, focused on keeping the aircraft safely aloft, and not on watching some strange-looking object.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

His report differs from CDR Fravor in that he reported the object traveling level at approximately 500-1000 feet at approximately 500 knots.

Dude...do you realize how blinded you have become to your position....interesting how you highlight the fact that the report differs from CDR Fravor....but the difference is minor......THEY BOTH REPORTED SEEING A TIC-TAC..... but the speed was slightly different... so

FULL ACCOUNT BELOW SKIPP TO 10:30

You look down and there is bird poop on your shoe.
You look up.
No birds.

Nah, that can’t be bird poop, it must be something else.

You look at the ground near you and see little specs.
Hmm… that looks like bird poop.

You look up.
No birds.

Can’t be birds, what is it?

You look around you, but farther out this time.
There are specs all around.
There are specs on the nearby wall.

You pull yourself up atop the wall and look around.
There is bird poop EVERYWHERE!

You look up.
But there are no birds.

THE EVIDENCE IS FLIPPING EVERYWHERE!
You just have to stand back and look at it.

One spec turns into thousands!
You do not have to see the birds yourself to know they have been there.

Unless you are over 73 years old the idea of Flying Saucers has been around your entire life. This is NOT something new. And WHY has it been around? Because of evidence. First hand visual evidence.

I have seen the FLIPPING PIGEONS! THEY EXIST!

a reply to: Arbitrageur

The moment you bring in Mick West I begin to laugh. That guy is a complete and absolute idiot. This is the jack ass who said F18 pilots were witnessing another fighter jet. A guy who has never spent one second in the cockpit of a fighter jet proposes to tell actual fighter jet pilots what they are seeing either visually or on their screens. It's an f'ing laughable joke for you to bring West in. And you need to revisit your incorrect account of the event. Fravor was the ONLY pilot to visually ID the event. The other pilot in question never visually witnessed the UAP.

This is the type of idiotic arguments that ruin your or any other person's credibility to objectively debate a topic.

West is a complete idiot and anyone listening to that idiot by default become idiots themselves.

Fravor was the ONLY pilot to visually ID the event. The other pilot in question never visually witnessed the UAP.

Just for the sake of clarity.... the above is a false statement.

Three others including fravor visually IDed the TiC-TAc.

The backseater WSO in Fravor's plane and the other two pilots in the other plane.

originally posted by: celltypespecific

Fravor was the ONLY pilot to visually ID the event. The other pilot in question never visually witnessed the UAP.

Just for the sake of clarity.... the above is a false statement.

Three others including fravor visually IDed the TiC-TAc.

The backseater WSO in Fravor's plane and the other two pilots in the other plane.

Perhaps I misheard Fravor but he was in an interview with the entire Knapp, Lazar, and annoying ass Corbel on stage and I recall him stating he was the only one who visually witnessed the UAP. I will have to go back and revisit that video. As I said I may have misheard him but the reference was made that there were now others coming forward making statements they, too, had visual eyes on and essentially Fravor was politely insinuating they were not being forthright.

I'll come back and correct it once I re-watch that video.

I certainly have not heard there are now 4 people who visually ID's the tic tac. Can you post links to who is claiming they saw it and I will post the vidoe where Fravor makes a reference as well. I could be wrong as I said so I will post back once I rewatch the video.

EDIT: Yep, you're right and I completely misheard Fravor. I found the video and the statement he made was there were other people outside of the 4 who saw it whom he is claiming are full of shlt. So thanks for correcting me on that.

Just my 2 cents,

I am no expert on the subject but find it interesting. These pilots did not have to report anything but did, they were obviously taken back with what they saw. They are only human and as such are subject to the same visual and mental tricks the mind can play on anyone.

That being said these are highly trained folks flying F/A-18 Super Hornets...very sharp tip of the spear stuff. It looks to me like they were operating in a military warning area off the coast of SanDiego (W289S,W292W,W292W,W291). Again I am no expert but these areas look to extend a couple hundred miles off the coast and are for all intense of purposes restricted when “hot” meaning Ifr aircraft are vectored around it. G/A aircraft can fly through at their own risk for obvious reasons (very serious jets with real weapons and other stuff not good for your well being). Not sure I would be 100miles off the coast in my Cessna 172 either way. Also looks like the contiguous U.S. Adiz line runs through that area, so if your an unknown crossing or probably even getting close to it your getting intercepted by angry hornets.

Additionally, the fact that Navy spokesperson Joe Gradisher mentions in the CNN article that the clips we have seen are just a fraction of the frequent INCURSIONS in NAVY TRAINING areas basically says we have a problem and can’t do anything about it...

Again, these folks and their aircraft are the VERY sharp tip of the spear, operating in an area only they are supposed to be in, practicing sharp tip of the spear stuff. I have no doubt they saw something vastly superior to their aircraft that day little green men or not.

a reply to: Slyder12


Well said. If those pilots are ridiculed enough then perhaps none will speak up.

My thoughts (Gave you your 1st star)

Kind regards,

Bally

originally posted by: Slyder12
Just my 2 cents,

I am no expert on the subject but find it interesting. These pilots did not have to report anything but did, they were obviously taken back with what they saw. They are only human and as such are subject to the same visual and mental tricks the mind can play on anyone.

That being said these are highly trained folks flying F/A-18 Super Hornets...very sharp tip of the spear stuff. It looks to me like they were operating in a military warning area off the coast of SanDiego (W289S,W292W,W292W,W291). Again I am no expert but these areas look to extend a couple hundred miles off the coast and are for all intense of purposes restricted when “hot” meaning Ifr aircraft are vectored around it. G/A aircraft can fly through at their own risk for obvious reasons (very serious jets with real weapons and other stuff not good for your well being). Not sure I would be 100miles off the coast in my Cessna 172 either way. Also looks like the contiguous U.S. Adiz line runs through that area, so if your an unknown crossing or probably even getting close to it your getting intercepted by angry hornets.

Additionally, the fact that Navy spokesperson Joe Gradisher mentions in the CNN article that the clips we have seen are just a fraction of the frequent INCURSIONS in NAVY TRAINING areas basically says we have a problem and can’t do anything about it...

Again, these folks and their aircraft are the VERY sharp tip of the spear, operating in an area only they are supposed to be in, practicing sharp tip of the spear stuff. I have no doubt they saw something vastly superior to their aircraft that day little green men or not.

Thank-you.... very well said, you sound like you actually know what you are speaking about!