It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
originally posted by: IAMALLYETALLIAM
Many of the "criminals" you mention committed such heinous acts as promoting Irish (Scottish/Welsh/Manx) nationalism and culture, stealing to feed a family in famine caused by the English and all other manner of petty nonsense.
These 30 million people are living as forced laborers, forced prostitutes, child soldiers, child brides in forced marriages and, in all ways that matter, as pieces of property, chattel in the servitude of absolute ownership.
African Americans were sitting in the back of bus til 1955 and drinking out of separate water fountains right up until the 60s.
originally posted by: Irishhaf
The Irish didn't develop a victim culture, did the best with what they had and used the past as motivation going forward.
African slaves were similar till people decided they needed to be saved in recent times.
originally posted by: paraphi
originally posted by: IAMALLYETALLIAM
Many of the "criminals" you mention committed such heinous acts as promoting Irish (Scottish/Welsh/Manx) nationalism and culture, stealing to feed a family in famine caused by the English and all other manner of petty nonsense.
You have to put it in the context of the time. A few hundred years ago people did not have much, so stealing had even greater impact. Regardless, these people were not slaves and were not sold into slavery. It is also erroneous to try to weigh this as English oppression, because the English were also treated in the same way.
The idea of Irish slavery is an invention/revisionism of people who want to build an anti-English narrative, and distract from the fact that the Irish were also complicit in the Transatlantic Slave Trade.
originally posted by: redchad
No one seems to mention or be interested in the Bombardment of Algiers (27 August 1816) which was an attempt by Britain to end the slavery practices of Omar Agha, the Dey of Algiers which had been the practice for generations. A fleet under the command of Admiral Lord Exmouth bombarded ships and the harbour defences of Algiers.
This was done in order to suppress the piracy against England and Ireland by the North African Barbary states. Many English and Irish coastal towns/villages had been raided by North Africans with all occupants captured and taken back to the slave markets in North Africa. It got so bad that English & Irish fishermen refused to take to sea.
The specific aim of this expedition, was to free Christian slaves and to stop the practice of enslaving. To this end, it was partially successful, as the Dey of Algiers freed around 3,000 slaves following the bombardment and signed a treaty against slavery. However, this practice did not end completely until the French conquest of Algeria.
originally posted by: Jesushere
You confusing Irish Catholics with Irish- Scots.
This explains why some Irish people express shock when informed that many of our kin were say, slave owners in America or involved and benefited from the dispossession of indigenous peoples lands across multiple continents. The cognitive dissonance that follows often leads to the knee-jerk response: "Were they really Irish though?"
So what is the reality about the history of Irish unfree colonial labor?
While the majority of Irish people who became indentured servants in the colonies did so willingly (why they felt they had to so is, of course, another question), a not insignificant number were forcibly deported and sold into indentured servitude. This peaked just after the brutal Cromwellian conquest of Ireland when there were orders given in multiple counties to round up and deport those who, it was claimed, could not support themselves.
So there were both voluntary and involuntary servants. What's the difference?
The laws were the same. Both were treated as servants and had a predetermined length of time to serve before they were freed. In Barbados the customary length of time to serve in the 1650s was between five or seven years, but in 1661 a new law was introduced that reduced this to between four to two years. This "custom" was altered by colonial administrators to attract servants to migrate to their colonies and it was also used to single out the Irish when they were not wanted. In 1655 harsh laws were passed in Virginia that targeted Irish servants who arrived in the colony without indentures. These terms for adults were two years longer than those that applied to other "Christian servants," and three years longer for those under 16 years of age. But by 1660 (the Restoration) the law was repealed.
Meanwhile, you're telling me that some Irish people profited directly and indirectly from the Caribbean slave trade?
Yes, absolutely. In Ireland it was mainly indirect via the provisions trade. It primarily benefited the Protestant Ascendancy, the Catholic elites, and the Catholic middle class who dominated trade in the cities. Many of our merchants (whether Catholic, Protestant, Huguenot, or Quaker) made fortunes trading with all of the slavocracies in the Caribbean. Shoes for enslaved people were manufactured in Belfast; and as mainly poor Irish Catholic tenants were forced off the land to make way for livestock, butter, beef, and pork were salted and exported to the colonies in enormous quantities via Cork, Dublin, Waterford, and Limerick.
So Irish peasants lost their land to make way for cattle, which was then exported by Irish landlords to feed enslaved peoples, who didn't grow food of their own because the land was too valuable for making sugar. And then presumably Irish people bought sugar and rum?
Yes, the provisions exported from Ireland fed slaves, servants, overseers, and planters. Herring, pork, beef, and butter and so on. One cut of beef exported out of Cork was known as "Planters Beef." And in the other direction a flood of slave-produced goods were sold in Ireland (sugar, tobacco, etc.). Every newspaper in Ireland in the 18th century carries adverts for sugar from Barbados or Jamaica being sold by a local grocer. By 1770 the Irish market absorbed nearly 90 percent of Antigua's total rum exports and in 1774 Dublin imported 108,821 gallons of rum from Antigua. Many merchants in the colonies paid for their Irish provisions in slave produce.