State doesn't let mom make medical decision for daughter with cancer

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Ya sorry, comparing paracetamol to chemo is not valid

a reply to: JAGStorm

So a "mom" can decide if the child lives or dies while "the child" in still in the womb, but after that?

It's the state's responsibility?

a reply to: Blaine91555

Yeah I don't know so much about CBD and cancer. My situation happened a little over a decade ago. This was before we had much info or craze or much mention of cbd.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Chemo kills many people too

So does paracetamol what’s your point?

The point is that if they are giving you a known carcinogen and immune system suppressor to treat your cancer, are paid by the pharmaceutical company to prescribe the chemo and then are not responsible if you die because "cancer" then it's an inherently crappy system that pays oncologists to kill people.

Do you need it spelled out a little more, since you are not from America so probably don't understand the cancer game here?

a reply to: JAGStorm

It's very scary. So much so I shelved my whole project and research. I learned enough and found what I needed to know. Just the look on The HR director was enough. not to mention there was at least five high up administration at the table when they sat me down to let me go. I was a mid level IT help desk personell! I realize this is much much bigger and I really felt my life in some fashion was at risk if I brought it to anyones attention. I had many options and plenty of evidence. I was like nope nope nope. Setting my mind at ease and finding the truth was enough for me. I assumed the doctor's wife dying of the same thing exactly a year later was devine justice or the karma.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

That my father was taking? I would have to go through my files at had a hard to pronounce scientific name. However it was 5k a shot with insurance. My grandma would drive into town just to give it to him.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: rickymouse

Yeah I know what a cytokine storm is thats why I was pretty shocked by your claim so thank you for clarifying.

Truth is the number of people who come to actual harm caused by a flu shot is so low the risk of getting the vaccine for pretty much the entire population (yes some exceptions such as yourself) is so low it does not justify not getting the shot.

I have known quite a few people around here that had bad reactions to the flu vaccination, it is not rare around here. A couple of those had even worse reactions than I did, one women wound up in the hospital for about ten days and almost died. Her doctor told her no more, never get vaccinated again. She just died at eighty five years old, she worked pretty much full time up until six months before she died, the township could not get a good person to replace her to take care of the finances and tax collecting at the office, she was a stickler at keeping perfect records, evidently the young that they tried to hire to replace her sucked at keeping proper records.

I do not think the vaccines protect people as much as they want us to believe. I think boosting innate immunity is a better way, there will be side effects too, but they are working on vaccines to do that and are having success. I would say in fifteen years people will look back and laugh at the vaccines we have today, calling antigen immunity pretty much a bad way of doing things. Remember though, some viruses actually are beneficial to humans, boosting innate immunity has to be done properly. I have strong innate immunity, that is what actually fires off the cytokine storm. It is taking a long time, but I am learning ways to control it somewhat. Certain food chemistries can cause it to have more of a hair trigger.

a reply to: JAGStorm

"Why not let the family decide what is best?"

I dont know, perhaps the years of medical training that they dont have?

if the state can tell a woman to have a kid, they can tell her how to raise it.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Ya sorry, comparing paracetamol to chemo is not valid

Actually tylenol is pretty darn bad for people, giving kids too much is not good at all on some of the organs. It is actually a valid comparison. But I do not think I would take the present chemo regiments they give, I would use special food chemistries to fight cancer. I would probably go for the radiation and surgery if the surgery is necessary, but I have seen way too many people lose the battle from chemo treatments. There are different kinds of Chemos, I have only researched maybe half of the drugs so there may be some kinds out there that are better than others. If I get cancer, I know where to find natural cancer killer chemistries in common foods with little side effects.

When I read stories like this, I thank God Almighty that my children are grown. Why? Because, and I state this not out of any sense of bravado or intent to threaten anyone, no one will usurp my rights as a parent of a small child while I breath.

No one.

Period.

Understand that, you who are arguing for the doctors to have their way. Understand that if that child dies in surgery, everyone involved is guilty of murder of a child. Don't let that scalpel slip. Double check everything. And pray you do not murder a 13 year old girl in cold blood. That's what it will be, as far as I am concerned, should there be complications in surgery.

I have watched many family members die from medical care. My uncle died from his "successful" surgery after being injured by a team of mules and a wagon. He came back home alive, and withered away over the next year. My aunt injured her back and went in for help. Within two years she was dead from reactions to medicines. When I took over caretaking for my mother, she was on something like 15 different medicines, most of which were to combat side effects of other medicines. I went through them, one by one, researched them, and started questioning the doctors. They wound up taking her off of 5 of them immediately, and she improved.

Anyone who tells me the doctors always know best is showing me just how damn ignorant they are.

I have a bad reaction to beta-blockers. That's right, beta blockers, those common, run-of-the-mill blood pressure medicines. Metroprolol causes me to lose all drive and all ambition... my wife said it "zombiefied" me. I came off of it and my emotions went crazy for a few days, then I realized I had sat in one spot and not moved for hours on end under that influence. Carvedilol does something similar but to a much lesser extent; I can handle it for a couple of months before it becomes a problem. I now believe in my heart that it was a beta-blocker reaction that killed my uncle. He did something very similar, but the difference was that he never questioned the doctors. He just sat there and died.

My wife can pop beta-blockers and have no issue. As I understand it, most people can. Not me. On the other hand, aspirin irritates her stomach terribly... I take a full dose aspirin a day and it's no issue at all. My aunt who died of medication complications was reacting to the exact same drugs my mother took with no issue. As I told my doctor during the heart stitching episode, you know medicine, but I know this body better than you do. I've lived in it longer than he's been alive.

In the case of a parent, there is an instinctive, basic human desire... no, demand... to try and protect one's child. The doctors do not have that basic biological demand. If the child dies, oh, well, they hang their head, fill out the death certificate, and go home to supper. The parent, not so much. Losing a child can literally destroy a parent's life. In this case, the mother claims the child was worsening under chemo but started improving under the CBD treatment. I think I would trust the mother's instincts, considering she was with the child 24/7 whereas the doctors saw her only on appointments, over those of the doctor.

Again, thank God Almighty this wasn't my child. The state may have been able to force the treatment, but I would not be going to jail for child neglect. If I made it to the jail, it would be for something much, much worse.

TheRedneck

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Would now be a good time to tell you I work in a hospital....seen more people die than I can count from cancer and also my own family members but am not sure how that matters.

Then why do you oppose new treatments?

If you can tell me what causes cancer, I'll agree with you 100% and place an editorial in every newspaper in Alabama extoling the virtues of listening to the doctors unquestioningly. But you can't. The doctors at St. Judes, who work every day trying to cure childhood cancer still don't know what causes it. They have a some clues, but they are still shooting in the dark. I know researches at UAB, a premiere research hospital that attracts celebrities from across the globe, who are devoting their lives to understanding cancer, and not a single one can answer that one simple question. They can talk all day about the effects and the chemical reactions that occur and how the disease progresses (most of which I will admit I do not understand), but ask what causes it and they all say something I can understand: "I just don't know."

If you can't tell me what causes the issue, but you know exactly how to treat that issue, that makes you a very arrogant but poor liar. Every cancer treatment thus far developed is based on hope and best guesses. Sometimes they work, and that's a good thing. But sometimes they don't.

So you work in a hospital? Well, I'm the guy you hate, then. Before any injection goes into me or any pill goes down my throat, I will have the answers to the following questions:

• What is this?
  
• Who ordered this?
  
• What is this for?
  
• What are the potential side effects?
  
• What are the hazards of not taking this medicine?

If you can't answer, I will not take it. Period. I have no intention of dying so your precious pharmaceutical lords can prosper.

As a matter of fact, I would probably request someone else replace you if I knew your attitude. You should not be in the medical field with that false superiority complex IMO.

TheRedneck

a reply to: JAGStorm

She took her off chemo (the child agreed) and put her on cbd oil and vitamins and was doing better.

OMG CBD oil! QUICK someonre CALL the COPS!

honestly, Big pharma HATE ALL cannabinoids as they have remarkable effects, some of which will almost decimate the earnings of BP once their benefits have been clarified and begun to be used as medicines as is already happening)

People like this woman are shaming Big Pharma. IF ONLY JJobs had got into the CBD oil . . . sigh

It HAS been conclusively proven that cannabinoids can Kill cancer cells in vitro And assist in neuroregeneration in many ways, not to mention it's ability to reduce fits and convulsions, which is beyond question these days, esp amongst the communities of people with certain disorders

After all, we don't have an endogenous cannabinnoid system in our bbodies which makes so far as we know, Over 220 different 'cannabbinoiid compounds, for no reason.

I'd bet it all that in the future, Cannabinoid treatments will be the answer to most anxiety and depression and stress related 'diseases' that 'city folk' suffer from :cheers


I personallly am a huge supporter and have 'miraculously' recovered from 2 serious 'diseases' because of it IMHO

Just to highlight a point to everyone attacking me on on this.

...not one of you have actually yet provided any scientific evidence that supports any claim that CBD would extend/cure the liver cancer this girl has with any greater efficacy than contemporary medical treatments.

So until you can do that, my argument stands, star each other all you want, call me out for whatever nonsense you want to make up but there remains no evidence presented in this thread that CBD would be better for this child than traditional medical intervention.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Just to highlight a point to everyone attacking me on on this.

...not one of you have actually yet provided any scientific evidence that supports any claim that CBD would extend/cure the liver cancer this girl has with any greater efficacy than contemporary medical treatments.

So until you can do that, my argument stands, star each other all you want, call me out for whatever nonsense you want to make up but there remains no evidence presented in this thread that CBD would be better for this child than traditional medical intervention.

Dude, there are at LEAST three people on here proving the highest scientific evidence of all... That they are ALIVE and can argue with you because they took alternative treatments for cancer. Sorry if that is not nerdy or on paper enough for you. To me that is the biggest "evidence" a person could provide. I don't care what paper says.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Dude, there are at LEAST three people on here proving the highest scientific evidence of all...

Ok challenge for you in your next post in response to me rather than deflecting do this:

Show me a actual study that demonstrates that CBD would extend/cure the liver cancer this girl has with any greater efficacy than contemporary medical treatments.

Just show me the proof thats all am asking for.

If you claim that its already been posted on this thread then it should be simple enough or you to do. I could have just missed it, its possible.

Anecdotal stories about wee jimmy down the street don't count as evidence for anything.

So you believe you MUST follow any recommendation made by your doctor? Eat that red meat and go to jail? The MOTHER has legal guardianship of her daughter, and should entirely be the responsible party for her child's well being. My guess, the doctor had a reaction (emotional response) when hearing the mother preferred CBD over chemo and filed a legal charge. I strongly disagree the doctor has any power other than to assist the child's recovery. The mother has a right to second and third opinions, and ultimately should have the final say. The doctor, nor the government had any ownership of her daughter, nor should they have the right to SEPERATE THE CHILD FROM HER MOTHER. It's not OK when someone breaks laws to enter the country to seperate children and parents, but if the mother wants to care for her daughters illness against the wishes of her doctor, LOCK HER UP.

How can anyone not support the mother, daughter, and family here and instead choose big government? A reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It DOESNT MATTER if CBD has studies that PROVE it cures cancer, how are you so hung up on that? Can the doctor prove the mother is criminally negligent? Absolutely not. We ALL agree chemo isn't the best, if it was we would stop trying to find other options that's don't kill us faster than the disease inflicting us.
Follow the story. Daughter with cancer. Follows treatment of chemo, gets worse. Goes off treatment and tries folk remedies with some results. Doctor has mother arrested, separating the child and mother during an already traumatic time in life, and forced their own treatment against family wishes.
Answer my question, what gives the doctor the right to make all decisions regarding the healthcare of this girl, and have her mother SEPERATED FROM HER OWN DAUGHTER?
Working in a hospital, you must be desensitized to some of the humanity at play, most hospital staff I've encountered are quite gruff, especially on matters of pain, effective treatment, and family support in life/death situations. You see it all the time and it becomes normal, and your response to it is altered.

I only see wriggling to somehow support growing government control over us


a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

First of all, it is irrelevant if CBD oil works or not. I honestly don't know (but I do intend to do some research when I have time; thanks to everyone for the links to get me started). Furthermore, I honestly don't care. What I care about is some self-righteous medical professional making decisions that should be left to individuals, placing those same individuals at risk, all because their own ego won't accept the fact that they are not God.

Doctors can be wrong. Doctors have been wrong plenty of times. Don't forget that at one time, not really all that long ago, the correct method for treating disease was to drain the blood out! We have progressed since then, but doctors are still not infallible and therefore should never, ever be given the kind of authority you seem to think they should have.

Second of all:

Anecdotal stories about wee jimmy down the street don't count as evidence for anything.

They do for wee Jimmy. Just not for you.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Rob808

ahhh why not the dinner is in the oven lets have some fun.....

So you believe you MUST follow any recommendation made by your doctor?

No I as an adult with full mental capacity have the right to refuse any recommendation of treatment made by my doctor.

It DOESNT MATTER if CBD has studies that PROVE it cures cancer, how are you so hung up on that

Actually it does, if you cannot prove that it will work then it should not be used as a replacement for contemporary medical treatment.

Can the doctor prove the mother is criminally negligent?

Yup because she is refusing to allow them to give her daughter potentially live save treatment because she wants to use something that has zero evidence base to support its efficacy in the treatment of her daughters liver cancer. If you take that to a more extreme example the madness of it is clear, that would be like your daughter having a cardiac arrest and refusing to let the medical team do CPR because you heard that a bit of reflexology will restart the heart and not break ribs. Its #ing stupid....

Follow the story. Daughter with cancer. Follows treatment of chemo, gets worse. Goes off treatment and tries folk remedies with some results

Can you prove that or is this just what mum has said because they are very different things.

what gives the doctor the right to make all decisions regarding the healthcare of this girl, and have her mother SEPERATED FROM HER OWN DAUGHTER?

So the medical team (and its a team this isn't one doctor it will be a team) has an obligation to ensure that the child does not come to harm and to act in her best interests of the child and offer treatment that is in line with best practice and evidence base. If they deem that this title girl is at risk of harm because her mother is refusing to let her have this treatment then they are ethnically obliged to take this to the courts and it is the courts who decide (not the doc) to put the child into protective services so that the care and treatment required can be provided. So in this instance years of medical education and years more experience in combination with a huge body of literature and precedent that support the efficacy of Chemo/Surgery beat the mother spending a few hours online reading about CBD.

This is no different form a medical team being ethically obliged to act if they deem a child to be at risk of harm in another way.

Working in a hospital, you must be desensitized to some of the humanity at play, most hospital staff I've encountered are quite gruff, especially on matters of pain, effective treatment, and family support in life/death situations.

Dam, you know last week I sat with a old lady who I don't know holding her hand for a bit, you see she was dying and her family had been staying with her for days but desperately wanted to get out for a few hours to get a wash change of clothes and come back. But they didn't want mum to be alone in case she died so they asked if we wouldn't mind sitting in. I had a bit of a quiet case load so I agreed, not too sure how long I sat there just holding this old dears hand until her husband eventually comes back. He gets into the room, I turn to him, "sorry she died about 5 minutes ago", first thing he does is give me this huge bare hug.

Don't #ing pretend to know me or judge me bawjaws, am happy to discuss stuff with you but am a real person so how about you show some respect.

a reply to: TheRedneck

First of all, it is irrelevant if CBD oil works or not.

Kind of is buddy where a little girls life is at risk, you don't want to be messing about.

Again the challenge is very simple,

Show me some studies that prove that CBD oil has greater efficacy in treating this girls liver cancer than traditional intervention does.

Either you can, in which case fair enough.

Or you can't in which case this mother is putter her child's life at risk, just in the same way another neglectful parent is and health care professionals have a ethical obligation to then step in and take appropriate action in conjunction with other professionals to ensure the safety of that child.