Explaining the Brexit Mess.

Vote on early GE this evening?

order-order.com...

No later than 3pm we will move on to the Second Reading of the European Union (Withdrawal) (No 6) Bill. The Government will be opposing this bill. Should the bill pass its Commons stages today, we will be moving the motion for an early general election at 7pm and we will be voting aye. It is therefore possible that business will run late this evening.

a reply to: oldcarpy

ahhahaah mate its awful isnt it !

Like what the hell is wrong with them all

a reply to: sapien82

What the hell is wrong with them, indeed!

The only thing wrong with them is that:
1. most of the MPs voted to remain in the EU, whereas 52% of British people voted to leave, so that the former have not represented the latter for three years;
2. MPs believe that they represent everyone in their constituencies, so that if most in a constituency voted to remain, its MP believes he or she must support their wishes and not the will of the majority of people.

In other words, there is a fundamental conflict between being loyal to one's constituents and being loyal to one's party if the party's policy disagrees with the wishes of the constituents. Parliament does NOT represent the will of the majority of people and never has done. The first-past-the-post system of voting has never created a government that represents the wishes of the majority of people. Most people in the country always oppose the government of the day if one counts hands. Only if one counts MPs does it become representative, but only in a narrow sense that means that the majority of MPS can disagree with most people on a particular issue - Brexit is such a case. The system is complete crap as a fair and democratic form of representation - always has been. Now we see this lack of fairness of representation in all its ugliness.

originally posted by: micpsi
The only thing wrong with them is that:
1. most of the MPs voted to remain in the EU, whereas 52% of British people voted to leave, so that the former have not represented the latter for three years;
2. MPs believe that they represent everyone in their constituencies, so that if most in a constituency voted to remain, its MP believes he or she must support their wishes and not the will of the majority of people.

In other words, there is a fundamental conflict between being loyal to one's constituents and being loyal to one's party if the party's policy disagrees with the wishes of the constituents. Parliament does NOT represent the will of the majority of people and never has done. The first-past-the-post system of voting has never created a government that represents the wishes of the majority of people. Most people in the country always oppose the government of the day if one counts hands. Only if one counts MPs does it become representative, but only in a narrow sense that means that the majority of MPS can disagree with most people on a particular issue - Brexit is such a case. The system is complete crap as a fair and democratic form of representation - always has been. Now we see this lack of fairness of representation in all its ugliness.

That's being overly generous to MPs. The majority simply do not believe they need to respect the wishes of thier constituents. They believe they are there to do what they personally think is correct.

"I'm superior and I'll tell you what's best for you".

This is why you have MPs from majority leave constituency's, who were elected on a leave manifesto, fighting for 3 years to remain.

The voters not surprisingly believe they should be respected. This is why trust in the system corrodes more each day. It's also why those MPs are in no hurry to face another election any time soon, even those who have been screeching for one in public.

The prospect of another real 'people's vote' on them has them all crapping thier suits.

September 7, 2019

Prime Minister BORIS JOHNSON has a simple plan to legally stop BREXIT extension..

If this simple procedure is true, wow… It would mean all of last week’s parliamentary teeth gnashing by the usurping Never-Brexit MP’s was essentially irrelevant.

According to a Reuters report, Prime Minister Boris Johnson simply needs to attach a letter to the Brexit delay legislation saying the U.K. government officially does not request any extension beyond October 31st. Then ignore it.

That was easy.

More at: theconservativetreehouse.com...

a reply to: carewemust

It’s my understanding though is that the bill even stipulates the wording of the letter although I am sure they will be looking at ways to ensure that the EU will refuse to grant the extension

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
There's a suggestion in the Daily Telegraph this morning, quoted from "a Cabinet source", that the prescribed extension request letter could be accompanied by another one, saying in effect "Please ignore the attached document, we don't really want an extension"; in reaction to which, the European leaders could hardly muster enough unanimity to offer one, and the idea would be dead.

The Graun today had a snippet about the French vetoing any extension.
So that's ok. Always liked France.

I think even the Eurocrats now want to get this over and done with as soon as possible.
It seems its only MP's and ardent Remainers who want to drag this death by a thousand cuts on even longer than is currently scheduled.

At this point I'd agree to almost anything in order to get on with moving the country forwards, we are currently akin to a ship adrift in the sea rudderless and powerless reliant on the whims of the tides and currents.

a reply to: Freeborn

with dwindling fresh water and food

and you know what happens when the food and water go , its urine and the fat sailor

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Freeborn

with dwindling fresh water and food and you know what happens when the food and water go , its urine and the fat sailor

After three years there shouldn't be any fat sailors......

Have to laugh otherwise you'd have to cry.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Freeborn

with dwindling fresh water and food and you know what happens when the food and water go , its urine and the fat sailor

After three years there shouldn't be any fat sailors......

Have to laugh otherwise you'd have to cry.

there is always one fat sailor , who hides the biscuit and goose fat

scuffles today in parliament



Bercow taking some flak as he is asked to leave ! (calls the prorogation and active executive fiat )

Ian blackford shakes his hand as he exits, many MP's throwing insults

at least we arent throwing shoes though so we can at least take comfort in that

house of commons attempting to verbally deny the "black rod"

Also towards the end SNP and Welsh MP's sing "scots wha hae" and the welsh national anthem !

a reply to: sapien82At one stage, there were fantasies about Bercow heading a sort of "unofficial continuation" of House of Commons meetings. It looks as though he has thought better of that idea.

a reply to: DISRAELI

yeh I think he would be up for some legal action if he did this

I think that is why the "black rod" is sent on behalf of the queen to make sure he does step down !

She was there today and asked him to leave on behalf of the queen

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: sapien82At one stage, there were fantasies about Bercow heading a sort of "unofficial continuation" of House of Commons meetings. It looks as though he has thought better of that idea.

While i like his style, i think Bercow shares alot of the blame for the sorry situation in Parliament. A different speaker, more in line with the Government and expressed will of the people might have been able to ensure much smoother and more constructive proceedings.
At times Bercow just seemed hell bent on catering to the remain camp. I don't follow UK politics too closely so maybe this i an obvious observation, but the division between him and the ruling party and especially the executive branch were more and more pronounced the longer this thing dragged on.

Watched the lib dem conference. Had to switch it off. Jo swinson was so patronising.
Apparently we should ignore the leave vote cos it was too complicated for us to know where to put our x on the ballot paper.
Thats at least 17 million votes down the pan for them.