Why UFO's are man-made

I will try and make this the last time I make this post

"The conspiracy is not to hide the existence of extraterrestrials . It is to make people believe in it so completely that they question nothing"
Fox Mulder - X Files - Patient X

a reply to: Gothmog

That part didn't work on me. I believe in aliens, yet believe almost nothing any government ever says.

originally posted by: Lucky109
a reply to: Gothmog

That part didn't work on me. I believe in aliens, yet believe almost nothing any government ever says.

Yet , if one looks at that quote and starts some deep logical reasoning most things "UFO and ET" are "theoretically" answered.(if not all)
Occam's Razor.

Pinned to read later.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

" this thread is a continuation of my other thread titled Time Traveling Abductors."

As this thread is a continuation of your other thread, why not just continue that thread, hmmm?

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
I think it's about time we have a serious look at the UFO phenomena using logic and realism.

I agree since so many well educated and well respected people have claimed to experience UFOs there's probably something to all the so called abundance of evidence. Although I can see why people still remain skeptical.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
radio signals

I don't think extraterrestrials receiving our radio signals is a prerequisite for visitation.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
we would see evidence of life at many different levels of development.

You just argued our radio signals would be degraded. Why would you think other lifeforms transmissions would not also become undetectable from the additions of noise into the signals.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
If we are being visited by ET's then they had to travel here from somewhere quite far away and they had to acquire specific knowledge of our location. expending what I assume is a lot of energy and time, just to cruise around our atmosphere and spy on us or study us.

Our sun is a pretty big beacon. And human beings travel to every corner of our planet to study life, biology, and culture. I would think the desire to explore, discover, and appreciate is a Universal experience.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
I've noticed that most people tend to have a very self-degrading attitude towards this issue, if the ET's don't want to speak to us openly then it must be because we are a bunch of stupid primitive apes...

Just google "ant keeping" and see how crazy people are when it comes to appreciating other animals. Maybe the reason we don't see the planet teeming with extraterrestrials is there are just small number here who specialize in studying human beings. Maybe the rest are out making music or spending their leisure time doing extraterrestrials version of Sudokus.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
If our governments really had knowledge of an ET presence on Earth, could all of them really keep it a secret for so long? We are clearly at a point now where humanity could handle disclosure, people actually seem to be getting a bit desperate for answers. Although it's mostly a joke, a group of people are now planning to raid Area 51 in an attempt to "see them aliens", which I feel is a manifestation of this growing desperation for answers.

The moment extraterrestrials become an accepted fact every government on the planet will be replaced. People would become insane with desire to interact or fear of annihilation.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
Getting back to my main point, most of the evidence and logic indicates they didn't travel interstellar distances to reach us. abductions...change our ways

Extraterrestrials could be millions of years more advanced and most like not only have FTL drives but Jump-Drives:

Jump Drive

If you take this into account:

"On November 4, 2013, astronomers reported, based on Kepler space mission data, that there could be as many as 40 billion Earth-sized planets orbiting in the habitable zones of Sun-like stars and red dwarf stars within the Milky Way galaxy. 11 billion of these estimated planets may be orbiting Sun-like stars."

40 billion is pretty good number. Over a million years one these planets could have developed life capable of making jump-drives.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
ET activities....social engineering

Why would we have anything valuable enough ET would want other than to study our culture and ponder at our insanities like the way most people do.

ETs would probably be so advanced they would be able to probe us from outer space without anyone knowing with automated robotic equipment. I think all the stories we here might be fear based delusions.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
does any government really have propulsion technology capable of moving through space the way UFO's are seen to move? The only way they could make the maneuvers they make without the occupants dying is by warping space around the craft rather than move through space.

With remotely controlled drones you would not be squashing any watermelons. Again, I think any ET would be so advanced I doubt very much we would be able to detect their presence 99.99% of the time. The other 0.01% is because we do not live in clockwork Universe. Strange stuff happens (too often).

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
I realize how absurd it may sound at first, but the longer I ponder this theory the more I fear it may be true and everyone is completely ignoring the possibility because they'd prefer to believe....I've always believed time travel into the past is impossible.

You can't prove a negative so ET may yet be real in spite your desire to believe they are not. I've heard arguments for time travel based on harvesting free-energy from the quantum foam as a power source. This technology supposedly exists but is repressed because it would eliminate the basic building blocks of a capitalist society.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
I also prefer the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics over the many worlds interpretation

The purpose of the Universe is for consciousness to experience ever greater degrees of organization and sophistication. We do not live in a clockwork Universe. Something forward in time is pulling the way reality gets manifested it's just that it's really hard to figure out what it is in the present.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
portrayed as benevolent gods and often present themselves as angels to religious people. The only motive I draw from that is an attempt to obfuscate and mislead people about their nature.

Well, obviously ET is not here to help us because everything is so messed up. I think when we crap in our bed it is up to us to clean up our own crap. No ET, God, or Angel is going to stop us from wallowing in our own misery.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
Often people convey this idea that ET's would be so far ahead and so different from us that we couldn't possibly understand their motives. I don't think that is at all true

It certainly could be true. We have evolved to experience reality within a limited set of frequencies and experiences. ET could be way ahead us on an evolutionary scale and have consciousness capable of experience reality way beyond our comprehensions.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
but is that an objective or realistic outlook

You need to think outside the box of materialistic philosophy. It's making you jaded to a particular point of view. Reality has always turned out to be so much stranger than anything we could have ever possibly imagined.

The Science Delusion

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

You might like this TED talk on creating devices to detect ET:



The first few minutes are painful. But the way he figures out the presence of life is brilliant.

Sightings in the 1940ies and 50ies (see Richard Dolans latest video) kind of debunks the myth that they are made by our own civilization.
They may be ET, interdimensional, time travelers or otherwise.
But we sure didnt make them ourselves.

a reply to: dfnj2015

You just argued our radio signals would be degraded. Why would you think other lifeforms transmissions would not also become undetectable from the additions of noise into the signals.

I said we would detect their heat waste, not their radio signals. But if the local galaxy was teeming with life I'd also expect us to detect some of their radio signals. We would also potentially see signs of them harvesting energy from stars, but to be fair we've observed at least one star which may fit the bill. The main argument I make in my thread about detecting aliens signals is that there's an extremely small chance any other intelligent species is close enough to detect our signals.

Our sun is a pretty big beacon. And human beings travel to every corner of our planet to study life, biology, and culture. I would think the desire to explore, discover, and appreciate is a Universal experience.

The scale of our galaxy and the number of stars in it is nearly incomprehensible, there's really no chance they picked a random star to visit and stumbled across us by chance, unless our local galaxy is in fact highly populated, in which case we would see signs of that life.

Maybe the reason we don't see the planet teeming with extraterrestrials is there are just small number here who specialize in studying human beings. Maybe the rest are out making music or spending their leisure time doing extraterrestrials version of Sudokus.

If they don't particularly care one way or the other about us, I don't see why they'd try so hard to remain hidden from us, or why they would seemingly be so interested in the future of our planet. It seems fairly obvious their agenda involves more than simply studying us, like you said couldn't they just observe us from space?

The moment extraterrestrials become an accepted fact every government on the planet will be replaced. People would become insane with desire to interact or fear of annihilation.

I think this is a great exaggeration... you may find that the day after disclosure, life goes on as always, people get up and go to work, and accept reality for what it is because they always suspected it was true on some level. I imagine there will be some rioting and other shenanigans for a while, but it will be much less dramatic than most people imagine it will be. However if they are humans from the future then it may get a bit more dramatic...

40 billion is pretty good number. Over a million years one these planets could have developed life capable of making jump-drives.

In my thread Probability of ET's visiting us I modify the Drake Equation to estimate the probability that a civilization on another planet close enough to detect our radio signals has detected our presence and decided to visit us. The result shows it's extremely unlikely any are close enough, even with something like a jump drive it's very improbable they could stumble across our planet by pure chance, they would need some way of detecting our presence at great distances.

Why would we have anything valuable enough ET would want other than to study our culture and ponder at our insanities like the way most people do.

Why would you assume an advanced ET species would consist only of perfectly benevolent beings who pity us. I highly doubt there is any perfect society in existence, I imagine that there are always going to be idiots and bad human beings regardless of how advanced we become. The same thing applies to any ET species, portraying them as some sort of perfect all knowing beings just isn't a realistic outlook, it's a cliche.

With remotely controlled drones you would not be squashing any watermelons.

That's some what true but it still doesn't really explain how they achieve such rapid propulsion or make such sharp maneuvers. Even drones would try to minimize inertial forces on themselves to reduce unnecessary stress on the craft. I'm not an expert on warp drives obviously but they way they move seems highly indicative of something that manipulates space-time and doesn't feel inertial forces.

You can't prove a negative so ET may yet be real in spite your desire to believe they are not.

I would prefer to believe aliens are visiting us than believe future humans are visiting us, and that is what I believed for a long time. Well "believe" is the wrong word, I wouldn't say I believe these theories, I simply entertain them as possibilities and I feel more confident in a theory as the evidence accumulates.

You need to think outside the box of materialistic philosophy. It's making you jaded to a particular point of view.

In my experience a grounded scientific approach leads to valid answers far more often than spirituality and mysticism. That is where people like Mack were wrong, they refused to acknowledge all the traumatic experiences their patients were describing in order to believe the aliens were here for some grand spiritual plan and he failed to reach scientific conclusions.

A high tech civilization could have placed listening probes within our solar system. Maybe these probes communicate back information faster than light by some advanced technology.
So they wouldnt be dependant on radio waves.

originally posted by: tjocksteffe
A high tech civilization could have placed listening probes within our solar system. Maybe these probes communicate back information faster than light by some advanced technology.
So they wouldnt be dependant on radio waves.

They depend on brain waves

I'm likely mistaken here, but didn't Tesla comment something to the effect that he had extra terrestrial heritage, or had been visited?

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Nothing like that though a lot of people have twisted his words, he believed in a universal consciousness or a higher self and that there was a great store of knowledge into which he had barely tapped.
Some interpret his words to mean he was in contact with ET's and his brain was the receiver but that is just there interpretation as far as I can tell and likely quoted from a book so someone twisted it into that and before you know it everyone has spread that rumour and it is out of hand.
But fact is he was a Genius whom sometimes did not know were he got his own ideas.

In his words note ET is not mentioned.
My brain is only a receiver, in the Universe there is a core from which “We” obtain knowledge, strength and inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but i know it exists. – Nikola Tesla

Which rather than ET could be interpreted the same way we do saint's inspiration's God or a guiding spirit not necessarily an ET or ET's but perhaps something/someone far higher than them.

HE intended well for humanity but his inventions were stolen, his ideas trashed and his free energy never given to the people EVER because we are SLAVES as far as those that withhold that from us are concerned, if we are free then they have no power over us so they have to keep the truth hidden.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Either way, it is pretty fascinating and important.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

If you think about his genius was similar to Leonardo or Michelangelo's, he was inspired like any artist and felt that a greater hand than his own often guided him but his mind was more of a creative inventor than an artist of that type and more scientific in it's nature - so we can only wonder what he would have created if his tool of choice had been the paint brush or the chisel instead.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Universe age 14.5 billion years
Earth age 4 billion years

The earliest fossils of anatomically modern humans are from the Middle Paleolithic, about 200,000 years ago such as the Omo remains of Ethiopia and the fossils of Herto sometimes classified as Homo sapiens idaltu.

The wright brothers took flight December 17, 1903
From a brief flight from a sand dune to a short 116 years later we now have Voyager 1, which – in late February 2018 – is over 13 billion miles (21 billion km) from Earth.

As of 1 August 2019, there are 4,103 confirmed planets in 3,056 systems, with 665 systems having more than one planet.

So by your logic a species (humans) who have lived only 200,000 years in a 14.5 billion year old Universe on a 4 billion year old planet moved from feet on the ground to sending interstellar craft 13 billion miles from Earth, to discovering more than 4,000 confirmed planets in 116 years and your conclusion is we are it? We made this advancement in 116 years. And the Universe is 14.5 billion years old. Yet it took 116 years for us to become a space faring species. Can you do the math?

It's literally the single most illogical argument of our time.

Not only are we not "alone" the sheer magnitude of life of non-terrestrial origin is incalculable.

The equivalent of our 116 year evolution from spruce wood planes to interstellar space travel relative to a non-terrestrial species is unfathomable by our current ability to comprehend.

The true lie is the one people constantly tell themselves and ignore the simple logic of the existence of non-terrestrial life. The problem is everyone has been brainwashed by Hollywood.

"Reasons why someone that is afraid to confront reality, can lie to themselves about all UFO sightings being man made objects. Despite that many exhibit behaviors more than typical lead times above modern technology, by margins beyond economic feasibility."

Delusion and or denial are fun words.

You can certainly consider a percentage are man made for sure, the big tech and aircraft companies are on the bleeding edge of what is possible.

There is a UK aircraft company that makes a a paint that absorbs all spectrums of light that hit it, completely. If you painted a circle on a wall it would look like a pitch black hole.
Theres also an American company that is working on very large lifting body aircraft, some of them look like black boomerangs hundreds of feet wide.
That's the stuff the has been shown to us civilian people I imagine there is some amazing stuff hidden under wraps.
I also believe that some are genuine unexplainable UFOs.

originally posted by: Gothmog
I will try and make this the last time I make this post

"The conspiracy is not to hide the existence of extraterrestrials . It is to make people believe in it so completely that they question nothing"
Fox Mulder - X Files - Patient X

What does that quote from a fictional character mean to you? What do you think the message is?

originally posted by: 1point92AU

originally posted by: Gothmog
I will try and make this the last time I make this post

"The conspiracy is not to hide the existence of extraterrestrials . It is to make people believe in it so completely that they question nothing"
Fox Mulder - X Files - Patient X

What does that quote from a fictional character mean to you? What do you think the message is?

Pretty much what it says...
How did you miss it , that is the question.