Why UFO's are man-made

I think it's about time we have a serious look at the UFO phenomena using logic and realism. Of course I'm assuming at least some UFO's are intelligently controlled for the sake of argument, but I think that's a fair assumption based on how many well educated and well respected people claim to have had an experience or sighting of some sort. The real question in my eyes is their origin, and as the years pass it's becoming increasingly clear to me that they are man-made.

I've made threads in the past explaining why our radio signals will be virtually impossible to detect at any reasonable distance, and even if they didn't decay they've still covered a very small fraction of the galaxy near to us, even at the speed of light it takes around 100 thousand years to travel across our galaxy. Plus we've been seeing these things in our sky before we started emitting any substantial amount of radio noise into space.

At this point some of you may be thinking "but what if aliens have already colonized the galaxy, they may simply stumble across our planet". Well we can quite easily show that isn't the case because we see no tell tale infrared heat signals that a highly advanced civilization would display, if the galaxy was teaming with life we would not observe such a lifeless and silent galaxy, we would see evidence of life at many different levels of development.

If we are being visited by ET's then they had to travel here from somewhere quite far away and they had to acquire specific knowledge of our location. Lets just assume for a moment they managed both those things despite logic indicating otherwise. Would such an advanced species really travel the massive distances involved, expending what I assume is a lot of energy and time, just to cruise around our atmosphere and spy on us or study us.

I've noticed that most people tend to have a very self-degrading attitude towards this issue, if the ET's don't want to speak to us openly then it must be because we are a bunch of stupid primitive apes... they arrived here a long time ago and seeded the planet with life or perhaps created humans by genetically altering another species. I once held a similar outlook but I feel it's becoming harder and harder to justify such a belief, I feel it only creates more questions than it answers.

If our governments really had knowledge of an ET presence on Earth, could all of them really keep it a secret for so long? We are clearly at a point now where humanity could handle disclosure, people actually seem to be getting a bit desperate for answers. Although it's mostly a joke, a group of people are now planning to raid Area 51 in an attempt to "see them aliens", which I feel is a manifestation of this growing desperation for answers.

Getting back to my main point, most of the evidence and logic indicates they didn't travel interstellar distances to reach us. When asked about the alien agenda, a large fraction of abductees will tell you the aliens have good intentions, they want to help us save the planet and ourselves from destruction. They often show abductees apocalyptic imagery involving Earth and warn them that this will be our future if we don't change our ways.

When you step back and look at the overall ET activities it becomes quite apparent the main agenda is some sort of social engineering program to change the way we think and behave, and I find that extremely concerning even if their intentions are good, because it's simply not their right to manipulate and mold the psyche of humanity. What's even more concerning is that everything points to this abduction activity being carried out by humans.

I mean it wouldn't really be better if ET's were responsible, but there is something deeply unsettling about the idea of humans doing it. If it is humans then the real question becomes: does any government really have propulsion technology capable of moving through space the way UFO's are seen to move? The only way they could make the maneuvers they make without the occupants dying is by warping space around the craft rather than move through space.

In other words they require a warp-drive, which would potentially allow for FTL travel. If you haven't caught on by now this thread is a continuation of my other thread titled Time Traveling Abductors. In that thread I discuss how a warp-drive bends space-time and could potentially be used for time travel, and why warp-drive technology could be feasible in the future, with entities such as NASA working on their own warp-drive design. The simple fact is, if we truly want to travel large distances we will need warp-drive technology to get anywhere near the speed of light.

I realize how absurd it may sound at first, but the longer I ponder this theory the more I fear it may be true and everyone is completely ignoring the possibility because they'd prefer to believe mystical beings from far away are here to solve all our problems and show us the way. I had to warm up readers to this idea before fully explaining it because I realize precisely how crazy it sounds. I've always believed time travel into the past is impossible.

I also prefer the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics over the many worlds interpretation because I prefer not to believe an infinite number of other time lines exist. There is no reason for me to push this theory, however I cannot ignore the fact it's the most likely explanation for UFO's when all factors are considered. They are humanoid for a reason and they can breath in our atmosphere for a reason. More importantly, they hide from us for a reason.

You also have to ask yourself exactly why they are so concerned about our planet if they aren't even from here. To assume it's simply the result of some good natured aliens is a shallow and naive interpretation of the situation. It seems they like to be portrayed as benevolent gods and often present themselves as angels to religious people. The only motive I draw from that is an attempt to obfuscate and mislead people about their nature.

Often people convey this idea that ET's would be so far ahead and so different from us that we couldn't possibly understand their motives. I don't think that is at all true, even if they were aliens from another planet they would have many of the same fundamental drives that any intelligent self-aware species would have. If they are human than this perception is even more invalid, and we have a much better understanding of how they think and operate than we may first assume.

They aren't gods and they don't have magic powers, although they may like us to believe those things because it makes us feel powerless and insignificant compared to them. It's very easy to view them as some sort of spiritual counselors for Earth, here to spread light and love... but is that an objective or realistic outlook to have considering how they take people without consent, often subjecting them to traumatic procedures, and do it all in secret. It is a dangerous belief system to have.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

You may be right in a way , If we discovered a way to travel in time somewhere in the far off future We would visit the past but could not interact with it because it could change the future possibly changing their "our" existence . Just think how different our lives would be if they came back and offed someone like Hitler and that would be something we would do in our current state of existence . So the visitors "Future Us" would had to have matured enough to not want to change the past or know the consequences .

I guess my point being that's why we have no interaction with them .

originally posted by: Gargoyle91
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I guess my point being that's why we have no interaction with them .

Yes I'd say that's a major factor, although I think it has less to do with paradoxes and more to do with the simple fact they don't want us to know they are here or they want to prevent us from acquiring time-travel technology too early. It helps explain exactly why the issue would be so highly classified and why disclosure hasn't happened. They clearly do interact with us to some degree in an attempt to carry out some sort of social engineering plan.

Your title belies your post. You make the assumption in the title that UFOs are man made then your post refutes that.
First take the abductees information given to them from the "ET"s. Most of the information they are given is obviously false, like "they come from Mars", "they come from Venus", "they come from Zeta Reticuli". So that tells us (if the abductions are taking place) that "ET" is lying about their origin.
As with another thread (Bob Lazars) the UFOs are small craft (well the majority) and that in itself does not lean towards them coming any distance. So who says they are coming from outer space.
It's pointing more and more towards a parallel world. A world in the same space as ours. They can traverse to our world but we cannot travel to theirs. So really they have been with us since time immemorial.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder
There are manmade but the extra terrestrials they are here to mine for minerals & precious metals staying on moon mostly..

a reply to: crayzeed

First take the abductees information given to them from the "ET"s. Most of the information they are given is obviously false, like "they come from Mars", "they come from Venus", "they come from Zeta Reticuli". So that tells us (if the abductions are taking place) that "ET" is lying about their origin.

I've read several books where first hand abduction accounts are recalled by abductees, and I think I've only read once or twice about the abductors revealing where they are from, typically they give very little information about their origins and objective, this is something several abduction researchers have noted. If you have some believable examples of aliens disclosing such info I'd like to see. In my Time Traveling Abductors thread I actually did share the one example I found in John Mack's book, where they claimed to be from the future.

In the months prior to our first hypnosis session on August 11, 1992, Jerry continued to have abduction experiences, including one episode just three weeks before, in which she consciously recalled seeing a UFO close-up and being taken by humanoid beings---whose attitude she felt was loving and benevolent---into the ship. There she saw shelves with instruments and vials, was seated on a chair or table, and had a complex dialog with aliens she felt were "beyond what we would think is intelligent or even genius." One of them explained that they came from so "far into the future" that she would not be able to comprehend.

~ Abduction, page 120-121

I've also seen at least one other abductee say the exact same thing under hypnotic regression. Another good example that comes to my mind is the regression session shown in Australien Skies 2:

Mary: Why has she come to visit you in this life? What's the purpose of her being with you or visiting you?
Liam: To make sure I'm okay.
Mary: So she comes to make sure you're okay?
Liam: Yeah.
Mary: Okay. Is there anything you would like to know about her, that you would like to ask?
Liam: Where... where abouts is she from?
Mary: Okay... and what does she say to you as you ask her that question?
Liam: It's a long way away in the future. A long way away.
Mary: So she's visiting you from the future?
Liam: Mmmmm....
Mary: Okay... so why is she visiting you from the future? What is the purpose of her visits?
Liam: To make sure I'm okay, to make sure I stay alive.
Mary: So she's acting as a protection for you?
Liam: Yeah...
Mary: Okay... and when she says she's from the future are we talking about a future in this particular solar system or some other dimension?
Liam: It's here.
Mary: Are we saying Earth?
Liam: Mmmmm...
Mary: So it's a future of Earth?
Liam: Mmmhmmm...
Mary: And she's visiting you from the future to protect you?
Liam: Yeah.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
I think it's about time we have a serious look at the UFO phenomena using logic and realism. Of course I'm assuming at least some UFO's are intelligently controlled for the sake of argument, but I think that's a fair assumption based on how many well educated and well respected people claim to have had an experience or sighting of some sort. The real question in my eyes is their origin, and as the years pass it's becoming increasingly clear to me that they are man-made.

I've made threads in the past explaining why our radio signals will be virtually impossible to detect at any reasonable distance, and even if they didn't decay they've still covered a very small fraction of the galaxy near to us, even at the speed of light it takes around 100 thousand years to travel across our galaxy. Plus we've been seeing these things in our sky before we started emitting any substantial amount of radio noise into space.

At this point some of you may be thinking "but what if aliens have already colonized the galaxy, they may simply stumble across our planet". Well we can quite easily show that isn't the case because we see no tell tale infrared heat signals that a highly advanced civilization would display, if the galaxy was teaming with life we would not observe such a lifeless and silent galaxy, we would see evidence of life at many different levels of development.

If we are being visited by ET's then they had to travel here from somewhere quite far away and they had to acquire specific knowledge of our location. Lets just assume for a moment they managed both those things despite logic indicating otherwise. Would such an advanced species really travel the massive distances involved, expending what I assume is a lot of energy and time, just to cruise around our atmosphere and spy on us or study us.

I've noticed that most people tend to have a very self-degrading attitude towards this issue, if the ET's don't want to speak to us openly then it must be because we are a bunch of stupid primitive apes... they arrived here a long time ago and seeded the planet with life or perhaps created humans by genetically altering another species. I once held a similar outlook but I feel it's becoming harder and harder to justify such a belief, I feel it only creates more questions than it answers.

If our governments really had knowledge of an ET presence on Earth, could all of them really keep it a secret for so long? We are clearly at a point now where humanity could handle disclosure, people actually seem to be getting a bit desperate for answers. Although it's mostly a joke, a group of people are now planning to raid Area 51 in an attempt to "see them aliens", which I feel is a manifestation of this growing desperation for answers.

Getting back to my main point, most of the evidence and logic indicates they didn't travel interstellar distances to reach us. When asked about the alien agenda, a large fraction of abductees will tell you the aliens have good intentions, they want to help us save the planet and ourselves from destruction. They often show abductees apocalyptic imagery involving Earth and warn them that this will be our future if we don't change our ways.

When you step back and look at the overall ET activities it becomes quite apparent the main agenda is some sort of social engineering program to change the way we think and behave, and I find that extremely concerning even if their intentions are good, because it's simply not their right to manipulate and mold the psyche of humanity. What's even more concerning is that everything points to this abduction activity being carried out by humans.

I mean it wouldn't really be better if ET's were responsible, but there is something deeply unsettling about the idea of humans doing it. If it is humans then the real question becomes: does any government really have propulsion technology capable of moving through space the way UFO's are seen to move? The only way they could make the maneuvers they make without the occupants dying is by warping space around the craft rather than move through space.

In other words they require a warp-drive, which would potentially allow for FTL travel. If you haven't caught on by now this thread is a continuation of my other thread titled Time Traveling Abductors. In that thread I discuss how a warp-drive bends space-time and could potentially be used for time travel, and why warp-drive technology could be feasible in the future, with entities such as NASA working on their own warp-drive design. The simple fact is, if we truly want to travel large distances we will need warp-drive technology to get anywhere near the speed of light.

I realize how absurd it may sound at first, but the longer I ponder this theory the more I fear it may be true and everyone is completely ignoring the possibility because they'd prefer to believe mystical beings from far away are here to solve all our problems and show us the way. I had to warm up readers to this idea before fully explaining it because I realize precisely how crazy it sounds. I've always believed time travel into the past is impossible.

I also prefer the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics over the many worlds interpretation because I prefer not to believe an infinite number of other time lines exist. There is no reason for me to push this theory, however I cannot ignore the fact it's the most likely explanation for UFO's when all factors are considered. They are humanoid for a reason and they can breath in our atmosphere for a reason. More importantly, they hide from us for a reason.

You also have to ask yourself exactly why they are so concerned about our planet if they aren't even from here. To assume it's simply the result of some good natured aliens is a shallow and naive interpretation of the situation. It seems they like to be portrayed as benevolent gods and often present themselves as angels to religious people. The only motive I draw from that is an attempt to obfuscate and mislead people about their nature.

Often people convey this idea that ET's would be so far ahead and so different from us that we couldn't possibly understand their motives. I don't think that is at all true, even if they were aliens from another planet they would have many of the same fundamental drives that any intelligent self-aware species would have. If they are human than this perception is even more invalid, and we have a much better understanding of how they think and operate than we may first assume.

They aren't gods and they don't have magic powers, although they may like us to believe those things because it makes us feel powerless and insignificant compared to them. It's very easy to view them as some sort of spiritual counselors for Earth, here to spread light and love... but is that an objective or realistic outlook to have considering how they take people without consent, often subjecting them to traumatic procedures, and do it all in secret. It is a dangerous belief system to have.

First two paragraphs - ok...

Your third paragraph. Do you even know what our own infrared signature looks like from Proxima?

How can you speculate on an advanced civilization infrared signature?
Besides, those who point FLIR cameras at the sky, capture stuff.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Not to get side tracked but if they are "Us" from the future that would mean the past is still alive and our future has been predetermined and we are already dead at some point .. It would have to be denominational thing then if it's dimensional how do you determine if your are in the actual past ... Now my head hurts .

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

A lot want us to go Vegan that’s what anal probing is about oh and the so far in the future that’s galaxies apart... which in a sense if you believe in reincarnation only way I can explain it you could be living out a past life somewhere in another galaxy right now. Ha, hmm

Had to do an additional reply because your thread post is too massive to quote.

I'm not even addressing any additional fallacies here.

I suggest you take a breather. Come back. Read your own post.

Give yourself the same scrutiny at each paragraph, you would give someone trying to explain this stuff to you, but they are a complete stranger.

A lot of your post is good, and raises valid points. However, you have drop offs, where you aren't making statements or providing evidence, you ask an open ended question and supply opinion afterwards.

If you are attempting to make an argumentative post, it should be statement, citation, logic explanation of reasonable connection. Maybe not in that order, but each assertion needs these things.

If you are attempting to rant or make an opinion piece, don't mix it with scientific argument.

It's probable that a lot of UFOs are man-made. No question.

However... if we're going to give our witnesses even the tiniest benefit of the doubt that what they experienced was pretty much what they saw and described, then the "we made them" theory goes right out the window, because there are frequently things that happen that are associated with real UFO encounters that just make no logical sense at all. High strangeness.

So rather than just settle on an explanation that makes me feel comfortable, I think I'm going to stick with my standard modus operandi and say that while most UFOs are misidentifications, hoaxes, or delusions, there are still some where I honestly don't know what the hell is going on. Embracing ignorance to avoid jumping to a conclusion, if you will. I can live with that.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Btw I was inspired to make this thread after reading this thread about the new UFO film from James Fox. karl 12 shared a link to a promo for another doco about the Zimbabwe Ariel School incident, and in it one little girl is asked what message she was getting from the aliens, and she replies "it was like the world... all the trees would just go down, and there would be no air, and people would be dying". Another girl says she felt as though "it wanted to come and take us". You have to wonder just how many of the massive number of missing children have been taken and not brought back, assuming any of this is true of course. Most of the kids still felt as though the message was a positive one, even after they have grown up some of them feel the message was a positive one of how we can change Earth for the better. Once again I would question why they are obsessed with the condition of our planet unless our actions on Earth some how affect them... and I would strongly question how positive their goal really is if this is the methodology they have to use to promote it.

a reply to: Archivalist



Could We Detect an Alien Civilization's Waste Heat?

A Scan Of 100,000 Galaxies Shows No Sign Of Alien Mega-Civilizations

Here's More Evidence That Galactic Super-Civilizations Don't Exist

Didnt they have a radio show in the 1910-1920s where they said alien invasion and people shot at water towers and a few people died. By 1947 who knows about ideas jumping off of ideas. I strongly believe that JFK assassination was false flag they sold the public a magic bullet theory. Also the moon landings I read ATS s book from 2008 that said the film was not scientifically accurate with what we now know about space. If the government does things like this Roswell isnt too far off.

I saw about seven or eight red stars going in circles or moving among themselves. i dont know if that was little green men in rocket ships doing manuvers or a space bnormality or like the matrix glitch God? moving things around. i was outside smoking this other time at last apartment looking up at night sky i thought i saw the moon shaking up and down slightly or shaking moving. i had my phone i tried to get it on tape watched recording and blackness with this light jumping around. That wasnt what i recorded but why do that? It could have been normal my eyes playing tricks on me or the way light bounces off moon in space or fog or something.

Its possible, what if we are not alone in universe? by now 2019 Hollywood took the story and ran with it. We all know who the Predator is and Aliens with Sigourney Weaver. if NASA since its inception had eyes pointed at space, what if they saw things moving? If Iran had Nasa and they saw things moving might mean nuclear war.

The Galaxy could still be teeming with life and we may never know it, radio attenuates over distance for one thing and as for travel perhaps they have developed a non linear method of travel such as warp drive, fold space or quantum displacement, wormhole or some other method to bypass the speed of light.

If so they may never stumble upon us or we them and if they have them just perhaps it explains some anomaly's in our own solar system that may hint that a far more advanced civilization than we may once have existed within it - perhaps not based on earth but mars or even Venus.



So why is our solar system so quiet, the distances mean we can not hear them shout - or scream.

And Scream is just maybe what we would hear..



There is a theory called Predator Civilization's, these are super advanced alien civilizations or at least there robot's that seek out intelligent life and wipe it out on any other world's were they find it, could that have happened right her to a former advanced civilization that may have called our very own solar system home long ago and if so could they return when they realize intelligence has once again appeared here in our solar system? which may be in there own back yard.

Also how many civilizations are dumb enough to beam TV and Radio into space, they may not even create those concept's as it is assuming they will have the same kind of mass communication we have when in fact they could be priestly led civilizations', hive cultures and many other variant's that are completely different to us.

As well as that they could be so advanced that the noise they make in space we are simply not listening for or they could even learn to move to higher dimensions and simply not be here anymore like the Q in star trek.

And just to fuel your mind, does this not appear to be a modern city with road's and transport infrastructure blown to hell and back, carpet bombed to oblivion a very long time ago.
www.marsruins.com...
www.marsruins.com...

But you know, WHAT if we were all living under an illusion, remember those flat earthers, they are not all lunatic's and idiots this video is cool whether you agree with them or not and worth watching even if you draw different conclusions.

IF they are right - and it all may be about perspective? - then UFO's would be demon's and angel's in there Merkabah...
OR does the shape of our earth have any impact on that at all.

Could some UFO be simply man made objects, yes.
Some real alien's, Yes.
Some Angel's, Yes.
Some Demon's, Yes.

Some non of the above, of course.
Some ALL of the above, that depends on your perspective.

Do you believe in UFO's?, well if you don't know what that thing flying up there is but think it might be this or that then it is unidentified.
Do you believe there is no such thing?, Well you must know what they are then so tell us all and we can then find the people whom have been abducting cattle and sue there arses off as the rustling corporate biopsy taking illegal experimenting corporation dick's that they are.

But in truth we don't know or do we?.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder


Here is one that is definitely man-made!!

Without question, the All-Directional Flying Object, or ADIFO, looks exactly like a stereotypical flying saucer. However, ADIFO’s creators say the inspiration for their uniquely shaped aircraft doesn't come from UFO lore. Instead, they say the disk is designed to mimic the back cross-section of a dolphin's airfoil.

In his first interview with American media, inventor Razan Sabie said the ADIFO isn’t the work of audacious mad science. “The aerodynamics behind this aircraft is the result of more than two decades of work and is very well reasoned in hundreds of pages and confirmed by computer simulations and wind tunnel tests,” Sabie explained. Sabie’s partner is Iosif Taposu, a former senior scientist at Romania's National Institute for Aerospatiale Research, and Head of Theoretical Aerodynamics at the National Aviation Institute. On paper, the duo don’t appear to be a pair of rogue backyard engineers or hobbyists.

So far, Sabie indicates one major aircraft manufacturer, two government entities and more than 10 possible partners and venture funds have reached out to express interest in the ADIFO, though Motherboard has not been able to independently verify those claims. With the prototype being completed using personal funds, “to proceed further we need partners,” Sabie said. At the moment, what they've made is a glorified quadcopter, albeit with features that current quadcopters don't have.

vice.com - Romanian Engineers Have Created a Fully Functional Flying Saucer.

They can fly sideways, hover, go forward. It is obviously fans with a bunch of ports to stabilize and to maneuver but the "entire craft is a round wing" gives it the look of 1950's UFO/UAP over the USAF Avrocar.

This is a couple of guys spending their own money making a craft that most would point at and say, "UFO!"

Makes you wonder what a few billion dollars will get ya'? Maybe your quantum physicists, material experts, engineers, computer egg-heads, mechanical engineers, and I could see some kind of progress over 10 years towards a viable craft.

Anyway, thought that ADIFO was neat-o, and had to share!

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

A scan of only a 100.000 or so galaxies... That's not even scratching the surface.
We can search for a lifetime before we find anything.
You're just going to have to be a bit more patient.
It's out there

originally posted by: Daalder
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

A scan of only a 100.000 or so galaxies... That's not even scratching the surface.
We can search for a lifetime before we find anything.
You're just going to be a bit more patient.
It's out there

But what's the difference between an intelligent alien species really being out there and us simply being unable to detect it than an alien intelligence that is purely fictional or non-existent?

Because it's impossible to prove a negative, and because we're likely looking for something so rare that it may only happen once in 100,000 galaxies, there's no way to be sure it's NOT out there. Not only that, after a while we start running into significant issues with time, such that if we did run into somebody out there, there's a pretty good chance that they'll be US. Humans who originated on Earth in the future (or past) who we are seeing now by some odd quirk in the structure of the universe.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Well if they are time travelers, it would explain much as to why there isn't much or any evidence or proof of them at all. However, the problem is, is how far off into the future would they come from like a hundred, a thousand, to 100,000 years, so on.

The more farther away or a head I guess, the more irrelevant it would be for them to show any interest or conflict since it would mean their own destruction.

What if they are after memories, sort of speak for their own reasons.

a reply to: Gargoyle91

Just think how different our lives would be if they came back and offed someone like Hitler and that would be something we would do in our current state of existence

Our history would remain unchanged. According to current theory , at that moment another universe would have split off .