the beast of the land and the beast of the sea....

a reply to: St Udio

Thanks good contribution to the topic at hand.

That's what i thought...

The confusion is so deep, more often than not the so-called authority are just parroting talking points, they themselves have little knowledge, and less access to god, than a inquisitive mind that decided to find god on his own!

Be very shure you are not helping the beasts before you charge at your percived opposite, it could be that is not what good had in mind with your beautiful soul, body, and mind!

What do you think will the beast of the land be?


Sincerely No Clue

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Specimen88

You are referring to Brahma. He is the God of creation that is out of favour. Brahman is the combined God of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Just to make it confusing, the brahmin are a religious sect the worships Vishnu.

It seems obvious that three main Gods in Hinduism is the trinity but this site suggests the trinity is Brahman, Atman and shakti. If Jesus as son of man is representing himself as the Atman then Christianity makes far more sense. But thats a leap most Christians wouldn't agree with.

Yes agree Kabbalah is a total headache. I read some of it out of interest. But it tires my brain very quickly.

Yes I was referring to them, and yeah that is confusing terminology.

The trinity you presented seem to go more in depth
Into the spiritual harmony rather then the power cosmic, or material trio. Odd that the trio you presented, where the first two are rather more or less principles or a rule of sort, all the while Shakti is a personification, the hindu mother of god, and is also Shivas wife too.

If I remember, I'm also sure that Shakati and Kali are connected to each other, or are one in the same, while Kali is much more of destructive force then creative, and is literally the idea of black hole.

And yes, the Christian's wouldn't like it either, sad pattern really.

Yeah, the Kabbalah sounds just as bad a chakras an nadia.

I have heard that 'sea' represents 'peoples'; not sure what 'earth' represents (political entities? spiritual forces?)

I think we all have material and spiritual inclinations; many, if not most, end up devoted to one or the other. a lot of 'spiritual' people are in poor areas where there isn't much wealth; areas that grow in wealth (North America) tend to be less spiritual. no need to go to church and placate God when you're making 100k.

a variation of 'spiritual' might be 'idealist'. we see a lot of younger people rejecting materialism and embracing things like leftist politics and global warming.
years ago a guy (Hoffer?) wrote a book called 'The True Believer' which opines that many many people MUST have some higher cause to follow, whether religious or political or material. today I think many find their HP in their sports teams

a reply to: ElGoobero

What do you embrace?

One can live a ideally humble and harmonic life without embracing global warming and leftist talking points.

Can you?

Sincerely No Clue

a reply to: Specimen88

Could the 4th beast of religion be the afterlife this afterlife that. Trap?

When it will simply be, what you believe it to be while alive?

Sincerely No Clue

a reply to: NoClue

You ask:

What do you think will the beast of the land be?

the Beast---> will likely come from the Aristocrats among us, schooled in Law/Politics/Military strategy/Theology (a modern renaissance person)

'They' will probably be a combined Globalist/Progressive-Socialist supporter, who will devise a Peaceful Detante' between the Islamists/Jews/Catholics....G20 & Migration intruders from the Dope-Cartel run nations in Africa & S America

'they' might be someone like Sebastian Kurz or other UN-EU-Brussel's Meglomaniacs who do Lucifer worship/allegiance

one other important aspect of the end-times Beast person is they have to embrace Technocracy and human hybrid evolution by gene-DNA modification

IQ around 160+, multiple citizenship, multi-Lingual



the Beast will be PeaceMaker for the 1st 3 1/2 years of global approval
Al Asqa Mosque/Dome of Rock to share space with 3rd Jewish Temple
and the Roman Catholic Shrine that pope Francis will request in the Peace Treaty


too much to tell in a short profile list (forgot the Beast will also be pedophile to a certain degree)

I have heard that 'sea' represents 'peoples'; not sure what 'earth' represents (political entities? spiritual forces?) =ElGoobero

rule of thumb... in the ancient Genesis & other Creation Myths aroumd the world.... It is declared that 'man 'humans' were fashioned from the Clay or Dust of the Earth---> to my mind that means 'Men kinds' were created from Earth or Land... So the eventual 'Beast of the end-times' will arise from the clay-or-dust of the Earth, meaning human attaining God-Hood by creating 'Life' or 'Synthetic life forms' independent of DNA/Genes/Chromosones/etc.

a reply to: St Udio

I think what you wrote is pretty apt for describing a purely materialistic mindset.

How does the beast of the land interact with the beast of the sea? If there is any.

Sincerely No Clue

a reply to: NoClue

The Ego is not the antithesis!!!

I use word 'ego' to represent different things. In Buddhism it is taught that the causes of suffering are craving and desire. Buddhism isn't much about the de-escalation of the ego, more so awakening of the mind to impermanence in all things. So when I sometimes use 'ego', I infer "craving ego" or sometimes "brain" which can result in some confusion. I will pay attention to that in future.

originally posted by: NoClue
a reply to: Specimen88

Could the 4th beast of religion be the afterlife this afterlife that. Trap?

When it will simply be, what you believe it to be while alive?

Sincerely No Clue

Depends on the way it interpreted, I guess, even though I'm thinking thats Babylons department, while it being the first of the four. Oddly enough Babylon mentioned a number of times, and the Vatican even hinted to be Babylon.

The fourth isn't really given any specific detail, other then it being ugly, horrifying, and it having an iron mouth or teeth.

a reply to: NoClue

Let the Bible interpret the Bible.

Isaiah likened “the wicked” people of earth, the masses alienated from God, to “the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire.” (Isa 57:20) At Revelation 17:1, 15 the “waters” on which Babylon the Great “sits” are said to mean “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.”

Daniel described four “beasts” that came up “out of the sea” and revealed these to be symbolic of political kings or kingdoms. (Da 7:2, 3, 17, 23) Similarly, John spoke of a “wild beast ascending out of the sea,” that is, out of that vast portion of mankind that is estranged from God; and his mention, in symbolic language, of diadems and a throne again links the idea of a political organization with this beast out of “the sea.” (Re 13:1, 2) He also saw in vision the time when there would be “a new heaven and a new earth” and when “the sea,” that is, the turbulent masses of people alienated from God, would be no more.​—Re 21:1.

John tells us: “And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names. Now the wild beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were as those of a bear, and its mouth was as a lion’s mouth. And the dragon gave to the beast its power and its throne and great authority.”​—Revelation 13:1b, 2.

Notice, it is the dragon that “gave to the beast its power and its throne and great authority.” (Compare Luke 4:6.) Revelation 12:3, 9 shows the dragon is fiery-colored and has seven heads and ten horns, and that it is the “original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth.” So this wild beast is Satan’s visible organization that rises up out of the seas of humanity alienated from God, and it is similar in appearance to the dragon, whose evil it images and reflects, and from whom it gets its power.

What more can we say about the identity and attributes of this freakish beast? The Bible itself gives the answer. Before the fall of Babylon in 539 B.C.E., the Jewish prophet Daniel saw visions involving ferocious beasts. At Daniel 7:2-8 he describes four beasts coming out of the sea, the first resembling a lion, the second a bear, the third a leopard, and “see there! a fourth beast, fearsome and terrible and unusually strong . . . and it had ten horns.” This is remarkably similar to the wild beast seen by John about the year 96 C.E. (Re 13:1,2) That beast also has the characteristics of a lion, a bear, and a leopard, and it has ten horns. What is the identity of the huge beasts seen by Daniel? He informs us: “These huge beasts . . . are four kings that will stand up from the earth.” (Daniel 7:17) Yes, those beasts represent “kings,” or political powers of the earth.

In another vision, Daniel sees a two-horned ram that is struck down by a goat with a great horn. The angel Gabriel explains to him what it means: “The ram . . . stands for the kings of Media and Persia. And the hairy he-goat stands for the king of Greece.” Gabriel goes on to prophesy that the great horn of the he-goat would be broken and be succeeded by four horns. This actually happened more than 200 years later when Alexander the Great died and his kingdom was split into four kingdoms ruled over by four of his generals.​—Daniel 8:3-8, 20-25.

It is clear, therefore, that the Author of the inspired Bible regards the political powers of the earth as beasts. What kind of beasts? One commentator calls the wild beast of Revelation 13:1, 2 a “brute,” and adds: “We accept all the connotations that θηρίον [the·riʹon, the Greek word for “beast”] conveys, such as that of a cruel, destructive, frightful, ravenous, etc., monster.” (The Interpretation of St. John’s Revelation, by R. C. H. Lenski, pages 390-1) How well that describes the bloodstained political system by which Satan has dominated mankind. The seven heads of this wild beast stand for six major world powers featured in Bible history up to John’s day​—Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome—​and a seventh world power prophesied to appear later.​—Compare Revelation 17:9, 10.

True, there have been other world powers in history besides the seven​—just as the wild beast John saw was made up of a body as well as of seven heads and ten horns. But the seven heads represent the seven major powers that have, each in its turn, taken the lead in oppressing God’s people. For example, in 33 C.E., while Rome was ascendant, Satan used that head of the wild beast to kill the Son of God.

Do not the nations themselves adopt beasts or wild creatures as their national symbols? For example, there are the British lion, the American eagle, and the Chinese dragon. Satan is truly “the ruler of this world.”​—John 12:31.

Satan is no mythical person assigned to tormenting departed souls in a fiery hell. No such place exists. Rather, Satan is described in Scripture as “an angel of light”​—a master of deception who exercises powerful influence in general political affairs.​—2 Corinthians 11:3, 14, 15; Ephesians 6:11-18. Note also the ending of this scene regarding a conversation with president Nixon:

The wild beast has “upon its heads blasphemous names,” making claims for itself that show great disrespect for Jehovah God and Christ Jesus. It has used the names of God and Christ as a sham to achieve its political ends; and it has played along with false religion, even allowing the clergy to take part in its political processes. For example, the House of Lords in England includes the bishops. Catholic cardinals have played prominent political roles in France and Italy, and more recently, priests have taken political office in Latin America. Governments print religious slogans, such as “IN GOD WE TRUST,” on their bank notes, and on their coins they claim divine approval for their rulers, stating, for example, that these are appointed “by the grace of God.” All of this is actually blasphemous, for it attempts to involve God in the sullied nationalistic political arena.

Mankind has even gone beyond admiring the wild beast, as John next states: “And they worshiped the dragon because it gave the authority to the wild beast, and they worshiped the wild beast with the words: ‘Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?’” (Revelation 13:4) While Jesus was here on earth, Satan claimed to have authority over all the kingdoms of the earth. Jesus did not dispute this; in fact, he himself referred to Satan as the ruler of the world and refused to participate in the politics of that day. John later wrote of true Christians: “We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (1 John 5:19; Luke 4:5-8; John 6:15; 14:30) Satan delegates authority to the wild beast, and he does this on a nationalistic basis. Thus, instead of being united in bonds of godly love, mankind has become divided by pride of tribe, race, and nation. The great majority of people worship, in effect, that part of the wild beast having authority in the land where they happen to live. Thus the whole beast gains admiration and worship.

Worship in what sense? In the sense of putting love of country ahead of love of God.

[continued in next comment; yes, I will get to the other beast as well]

The wild beast has ten horns on its seven heads. Moreover, it had ten diadems on its horns. In the book of Daniel, fearsome beasts are described, and the numbering of their horns is to be interpreted literally. For example, the two horns on a ram represented a world empire made up of two partners, Media and Persia, while the four horns on a goat represented the four coexisting empires that grew out of Alexander the Great’s Greek empire. (Daniel 8:3, 8, 20-22) On the beast that John saw, however, the numbering of the ten horns appears to be symbolic. (Compare Daniel 7:24; Revelation 17:12.) They represent the completeness of sovereign states making up the entire political organization of Satan. All these horns are violent and aggressive, but as indicated by the seven heads, headship resides in only one world power at a time. Similarly, the ten diadems indicate that all sovereign states would exercise ruling power simultaneously with the dominant state, or world power, of that time.

One of the heads of the wild beast, each of which represents one of the seven world powers, is then shown in more detail as a beast that “had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon,” and caused “those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast.” (Rev. 13:11-15) John reports: “And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed. And it performs great signs, so that it should even make fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind.” (Revelation 13:11-13) This wild beast has two horns, indicating a partnership of two political powers. And it is described as coming out of the earth, not out of the sea. Thus, it comes out of Satan’s already established earthly system of things.* It must be a world power, already existing, that takes on a significant role during the Lord’s day. *: The earth is spoken of figuratively in several instances. For example, John 3:31 contrasts one that comes from above as being higher than one who comes from the earth (ge). The Greek word e·piʹgei·os, “earthly,” is used to denote earthly, physical things, especially as contrasted with heavenly things, and as being lower and of coarser material. Man is made of earth’s material. (2Co 5:1; compare 1Co 15:46-49.)

During the Lord’s day, the righteous ones were due to “shine as brightly as the sun.” Hence, the Christian congregation was organized for work. (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43) By then, the Roman Empire was no more. The huge British Empire, along with the powerful United States of America, held the center of the world stage. This dual world power proved to be the seventh head of the first wild beast with the seven heads and ten horns.

Thus this two-horned beast is the Anglo-American World Power​—the same as the seventh head of the first wild beast but in a special role! Isolating it in the vision as a separate wild beast helps us to see more clearly how it acts independently on the world stage. This figurative two-horned wild beast is made up of two coexisting, independent, but cooperating political powers. Its two horns “like a lamb” suggest that it makes itself out to be mild and inoffensive, with an enlightened form of government to which all the world should turn. But it speaks “as a dragon” in that it uses pressure and threats and even outright violence wherever its version of rulership is not accepted. It has not encouraged submission to God’s Kingdom under the rule of the Lamb of God but, rather, to the interests of Satan, the great dragon. It has promoted nationalistic divisions and hatreds that add up to worshipping the first wild beast.*

*: Commentators have noted that nationalism, in effect, is a religion. Hence, people who are nationalistic are really worshipping that portion of the wild beast represented by the country in which they live. Regarding nationalism in the United States, we read: “Nationalism, viewed as a religion, has much in common with other great religious systems of the past . . . On his own national god the modern religious nationalist is conscious of dependence. Of His powerful help he feels the need. In Him he recognises the source of his own perfection and happiness. To Him, in a strictly religious sense, he subjects himself. . . . The nation is conceived of as eternal, and the deaths of her loyal sons do but add to her undying fame and glory.”​—Carlton J. F. Hayes, as quoted on page 359 of the book What Americans Believe and How They Worship, by J. Paul Williams.

It claims to have vanquished the forces of evil in two world wars and was victorious over so-called godless Communism. Many, indeed, view the modern counterpart of the two-horned wild beast as a guardian of liberty and a font of material good things. It caused the nations of earth to form the “image to the wild beast,” the League of Nations and later the United Nations, and it made great claims as to what these international political organizations would accomplish in the way of establishing world peace. Since these claims were never fulfilled, this two-horned beast that appeared lamblike but actually spoke for the dragon was proved to be a false prophet, and from then on Revelation speaks of it as “the false prophet,” at Re 16:13, Re 19:20 and Re 20:10.

There are many, many more details and evidence one could discuss regarding the identity of these 2 beasts, but I feel like I've said enough for now. For those interested in more, try this documentary:

a reply to: whereislogic

That documentary also mentions the "New World Order" towards the end (I'm out of edit time). So you can see how that fits in (related to the UN, i.e. the “image of the wild beast”).

And now that I've made a new comment, might as well add some more about this point:

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: NoClue

Worship in what sense? In the sense of putting love of country ahead of love of God.

An example of putting love of country ahead of love of God (and vice versa):

And this may be a demonstration of it as well (although I'm inclined not to draw any definitive conclusions from it; funny telling parody though of what happened there. There's little point in watching the video below without watching the video above though):

Perhaps it's also useful to keep the following in mind in regards to the video above (also coming back to the topic of nationalism discussed near the end of my previous comment):

Why is the world so disunited in spite of efforts by many apparently sincere and dedicated world leaders? Philippine educator Primo L. Tongko commented on one factor in “PHP” magazine.

He observes that “national anthems and national flags have frequently given rise to a very questionable human motive of extreme or blind love of country, they have tended to make people fanatically nationalistic, so much so that sometimes they have not been ashamed even to say, ‘My country right or wrong.’”

“Nationalistic attitudes” have filled the “pages of history with continuous wars for conquest, colonization, exploitation and oppression,” Tongko notes, “thus giving rise to all kinds of prejudices, suspicions and hatred that now divide the world.”
...

Source: Insight on the News (1977)

a reply to: whereislogic

A national anthem often is, in effect, a hymn or a prayer set to music. The Encyclopedia Americana (1956) says: “Love of fatherland and pride in one’s country are the keynotes of most national anthems, and in many, religious feeling is blended with patriotic sentiment.” Actually, patriotic songs express the same fundamental ideas that are embodied in the pledge of allegiance to the flag. And since there is no Scriptural basis for the nationalistic pride that has so divided our world, genuine Christians do not join in singing songs that extol any earthly nation.​—Acts 17:26; John 17:15, 16.

“National anthems are expressions of patriotic feeling and often include an invocation for divine guidance and protection of the people or their rulers,” says a more recent edition of The Encyclopedia Americana. As mentioned before, a national anthem is, in effect, a hymn or a prayer in behalf of a nation. It usually asks that the nation experience material prosperity and long duration. Should true Christians join in such prayerful sentiments?

The prophet Jeremiah lived among people who professed to serve God. Yet, Jehovah commanded him: “Do not pray in behalf of this people, neither raise in their behalf an entreating cry or a prayer nor beseech me, for I shall not be listening to you.” (Jeremiah 7:16; 11:14; 14:11) Why was Jeremiah given this command? Because their society was permeated with stealing, murdering, the committing of adultery, false swearing, and idolatry.​—Jeremiah 7:9.

Jesus Christ set a precedent when he said: “I make request, not concerning the world, but concerning those you have given me.” (John 17:9) The Scriptures say that “the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one” and “is passing away.” (1 John 2:17; 5:19) How, then, can true Christians conscientiously pray for the prosperity and longevity of such a system?

Of course, not all national anthems include petitions to God. “The sentiments of national anthems vary,” says the Encyclopædia Britannica, “from prayers for the monarch to allusions to nationally important battles or uprisings . . . to expressions of patriotic feeling.” But can those who seek to please God actually exult over the wars and revolutions of any nation? Concerning true worshipers, Isaiah foretold: “They will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears.” (Isaiah 2:4) “Though we walk in the flesh,” wrote the apostle Paul, “we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly.”​—2 Corinthians 10:3, 4.

National anthems often express feelings of national pride or superiority. This outlook has no Scriptural basis. In his speech on the Areopagus, the apostle Paul said: “[Jehovah God] made out of one man every nation of men, to dwell upon the entire surface of the earth.” (Acts 17:26) “God is not partial,” stated the apostle Peter, “but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.”​—Acts 10:34, 35.

Because of their understanding of the Bible, many make a personal decision to refrain from participating in the flag salute and in the singing of patriotic songs.

More details about nationalism, patriotism, national flags, national anthems and the pledge of allegiance in my commentary in this thread:

What if: The mark of the beast is not a actual mark..?

a reply to: whereislogic

thanks for the amplifications & the sheer volume of issues that you addressed...

I 'starred' Post One also 'starred' Post Two...………..the Posts three & four are 'un-starred' because of venturing into Commentary too deeply (yeah, i'm biased)

thanks again.


BTW … I 'see' the 10 horns of the Beast as echoing the 10 toes on the feet of the Daniel Statue which represented the 'End Time Empire'...
the 10 horns on the 7 Head Beast from Sea, are also 10 toes of clay & iron mixed together)

> the clay & iron mixture of the feet & toes (Nebuchadnezzer dream Statue of declining world empires)
could represent the combination religion ChrIslam - clay & iron won't mix strongly
could represent the community of Islamic States, all 10 which surround Israel
could represent the end-times Nuclear Club of Nations which have a nuke arsenal


neglected to reference the 'Dragon' in the heavens = DRACO, a Northern hemisphere star constellation depicting a Dragon/Serpent..... see: Hamlet's Mill for the FYI background of the linkage of Dragon-v-Satan & fall of 1/3 of Angelic population taught in Genesis/Creation Myth

a reply to: St Udio

Same starring pattern for several reasons...
Although I have to add, there can be beauty in the love for your Tribe. It should never express itself through hate of others though!

that was helpful and in depth about the beasts.

I'm really convinced that the bad things out there are in reality bad things in there.

Land and sea seem to be more or less the same in their visual description.

ten horns and seven heads.

Looking at myself i see,
10 fingers, actually it's the most hornlike attribute I have. And 7 chakras, I could easily describe them as heads, or seats of consciousness, little brains that tell you things, if you learn to listen.

We are talking about etheric body and material body,
2 of the three aspects of the human body.

The sea beast listens to the dragon, the land beast listens to the sea.
I can see how one could describe a wave as a dragon.
I would say that the wave is where the first body the tetrahedron, sits, fracturing one fractal frame of the dragon onto the two aspects of god wave and body.

The beast of the sea is the part of my body that has access to the wave(non dense reality, god, devil, whatever you want to call it)
and the beast of the land would be the part of my body that has acces to the material world.

You will see that cancelling out any of the three will not be beneficial. Unless we don't want the colors!

How do the two beasts interact?

Sincerely No Clue

The four beasts in Revelation are corrupt systems in the latter days. Politics, false religion, monetary, and educational system(s).

The "sea" = people.

originally posted by: St Udio
a reply to: whereislogic

neglected to reference the 'Dragon' in the heavens = DRACO, a Northern hemisphere star constellation depicting a Dragon/Serpent..... see: Hamlet's Mill for the FYI background of the linkage of Dragon-v-Satan & fall of 1/3 of Angelic population taught in Genesis/Creation Myth

Revelation 12:3, 9 already shows the dragon is the “original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth.” That's from the preceding chapter, so it's not really open to interpretation. Chapter 13, verse 2 is clearly talking about the same dragon.

Star constellations named "Draco" by astrologers that take no interest in Bible teachings when they conflict with their own really have nothing to do with it. Besides, the Bible speaks very strongly against astrology (in particular the attempts to read the future into the stars, as is done with horoscopes for example, it's put on the same level with spiritism, attempts to communicate with the dead or the spirit world, or attempts to summon those).

Does anyone know about Behemoth and Leviathan?

From what I understand they are Biblical creatures.

One is from the land and the other is from the sea.

Are they related to the Revalation Beast of the Land and Beast of the Sea?

a reply to: VoltronForce

Mentioned in Job. Popular biblical theory: description of two different dinosaur species.