Kit Green, the Alien Autopsy and the Men Who Stared at Notes

a reply to: mirageman

Very interesting thread mirageman, going on experience of ATS and considering the subject matter here and individuals discussed, it will be interesting to see what and who turns up in this thread.

a reply to: mirageman

A great thread as always MM.
In my opinion, a big chunk of what ufology has become today due to certain authors, and "researchers", is because of the myths and propaganda that was created/spread by the Aviary for their own nefarious reasons.
Someone really needs to either cover that "bird" cage up or give it a good old shake and finally see what falls out as truth.

a reply to: Kurokage

There's something more to all of this than meets the eye. Disregarding all the deception by Santilli and people associated with the making of his faked movie.

As early as April 2018 Linda Moulton Howe was on a show with Grant Cameron promoting the Santilli film as genuine.She claimed counter intelligence agents framed it all as a hoax. No Linda, invetigative journalists (which she ironically claims to be) debunked Santilli not the counter intelligence people who feed her bogus information.

Howe claims that 'physicists she has been able to talk to' (probably Big Eric Davis) told her the six fingered panels from "Alien Autopsy" contain fibre optics that connect with the fingers of the beings. Fibre optics are also coming out of the end of the fingers of these beings.

Link to part of the show.

I won't even link to her awful website but she's all over it there too.

Then a year later the memo gets leaked?

Next up Richard Dolan is interviewing Green about it all. Then agrees to silence as it was just a bit of a warm up. Gotta get your story straight I suppose.

Another coincidence is that this PR company has the same 3 UFOtainment personalities top of their client list.

Dolan was good over a decade ago. But he's embracing too much of the fringe into his work these days and his credibility as a serious researcher is in the balance.

Cameron was good when he was a serious researcher on the Presidential UFO files. Then he got zapped and went all love, light and consciousness. He still makes some interesting points occasionally. But has jumped into the deep end.

Howe has never been credible. She is either paid to push crap into ufology or is so gullible that she will believe anything, anyone tells her as long as it suits her even more gullible audience.

But someone has been trying to push this hoax of an alien autopsy for over a year now?

Why?

a reply to: mirageman

Dolan thinks highly of Linda. That also speaks volumes.

But someone has been trying to push this hoax of an alien autopsy for over a year. Why?

This year has been a busy one . I guess an agenda is at play?
🤔

It seems like games are perpetually being played and ufology has yet another scam that for some reason certain personalities are unwilling to admit and accept this was all a hoax.....

Or it seems like games are being played and and someone is disclosing information and changing the narrative in a way that is easily deniable and goes through people who can be burned and discarded.

a reply to: mirageman

Santilli also told Philip Mantle (a respected figure in British UFO research) that "if it wasn't Truman, it was a damned good actor." 

MM, some mighty fine research there and do like that thread title - agree that Philip Mantle is quite a respected chap in British UFO research and he goes into quite some detail in the interview below about his experience with Santilli and Spyros.

See 45:40

Cheers.

a reply to: mirageman



MM melaris himself said the whole video was a hoax. Maybe its the internets "doing" .Past 1 2 years ufology is "trendy" so maybe people who are new started digging old crap and the internet took it from there. As i understand,green has for ages said that indeed there was an autopsy. It also could be some psyop at play from a 3 letter agency for whatever reason.

Heres melaris statement

"“For me, it was just a joke, a bit of fun but I have learned my lesson.”

With those words, Spyros Melaris hopes he has put the demons of his 1995 “alien autopsy” footage — touted as secret government film from the 1947 “Roswell incident” — to rest.

Of course, true believers dismiss this.

The “government” has got to him. It’s just more evidence of cover-up. Or so they say.

But, for Melaris at least, the case is now closed."


Delongesthoax also said in a tweet about "biological treasures" whatever that means. Quite possibly if there is a second season for misidentified we might get some clues.Dosent help that when he gives interviews he isnt asked pressing questions :/




silvarecord.com...

a reply to: mirageman

Text"The video is real...”the body was not human"..."..the body looked pretty fake.."

If you consider this a deductive argument, these 3 statements are not in conflict with one another.
The video is real - it exists
the body was not human - it really was not a person
the body looked pretty fake - it didn't look real

The problem is there is no conclusion to the argument. After reading the original memo, NIDS was also left hanging without a logical conclusion. They have a series of statements that do not directly conflict. One could draw the conclusion based on the above that what he saw was a faked autopsy.

I can say that the Alien autopsy was kind of a shocker when I saw it for the first time at that time. As for me, I seem to have a keen sight for graphical and video imagery.

Not saying it can't be done.

Somehow I keep an open mind of the possibility that it could be real, but after they said to be faked my interest of this case started to drop and I got rarely reminded.

Last decades we've seen a lot of those videos and pictures, today many can be accurately made by computer graphics depending on which artists are working on them.

Maybe we do have senses that could penetrate the truth within the charade of videos and pictures presented to us everday not knowing in full detail what the truth behind a story really seems to be?

originally posted by: mirageman

Howe has never been credible.

Come on, there was a time (A Strange Harvest). Admittedly downhill since.

originally posted by: mirageman

Dolan was good over a decade ago. But....

Cameron was good when he was a serious researcher on the Presidential UFO files. Then...

Howe has never been credible.

It is a depressing trend. Greer is another classic example. As Chunder said, Howe had a genuinely Strange Harvest at one point, but her downfall was pretty rapid afterwards. Our own Nick Pope has gradually morphed into something far more tabloid over the years but still retains an ounce of dignity that I can't see lasting much longer.


Regarding Santilli, the notion of him buying original damaged lost footage of a genuine alien autopsy, captures the imagination of many in the same way as the legendary 'secret' footage of an alien landing at Holloman AFB in 1971 that the Pentagon 'nearly' offered to film producer Robert Emenegger. Gossip merchant Grant Cameron, of course, was gabbling about the remaining few seconds of allegedly 'real' footage that did make it into Emenegger's final TV documentary...




So it's hardly surprising that Cameron is now all over the Alien Autopsy story like a rash.

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originally posted by: ctj83
REMOVED

OH...

I'll scrap my reply, then, to what was a fascinating, insightful couple of posts.

I hope you were not 'spooked', but if so, then so much for freedom of expression and denial of bloody ignorance.

Perhaps Dr Green can pop in himself to clear matters up if he still has his ATS account as well as a small stake?



Anyone got a fuzzy video of a balloon they can post instead?



I need a pint...

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

No, not spooked. The first post is gone because I've got no wish to get dragged into a battle with some unpleasant characters. I'll say this much - I doubt that we will ever seen the original telecined version of the AA, as in reality, I've seen compelling it was done in LA. I suspect that nothing more than stills can be shown of the autopsy without the colourists work. If we ever see the full footage without the digitial effects. Without that nothing will change my mind. The testimony I've seen destroys so many of the given timelines and testimony.

My own personal feeling is this. You can connect one of the parties to the Roswell Movie, where he might have had extra knowledge about what wasn't included. Could they have attempted to have one of the aliens autopsied but gave up?

As for the second post. I can post all day long about what is in FS4 and how it clearly indicates that Kit was inducted by a man still in the UFO scene and shown the autopsy photos pre 1990. I believe he's innocent but he's not using even what is publicly known to defend himself, as he could.

However, I've chosen not to spend much time in this field anymore. I have a strong belief that someone played a game on Dr Green, and I think the clues are out there to name them. SERPO. UfoCoverUp live. Low observable dirigibles. It's just not my place to spell it out, I think, as if Dr Green doesn't want it out there, he will have his reasons.

a reply to: inert

I agree. There is no logical conclusion. I think certain comments are easily open to interpretation. Eric Davis, perhaps aware that he needed to show NIDS was making real progress to sustain further funding from Bigelow, exaggerated what was really said in the emails copied into the memo.

The problem with this story from day one is that most of the characters are being economic with the truth to fulfil their own agendas.

a reply to: karl 12

agree that Philip Mantle is quite a respected chap in British UFO research and he goes into quite some detail in the interview below about his experience with Santilli and Spyros. 

He sells a lot of books.

🤔

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Perhaps Dr Green can pop in himself to clear matters up if he still has his ATS account as well as a small stake

Doubt that shall happen.

There are some excerpts from Jacques Vallee's Forbidden Science Vol.3 & 4 posted up on Keith Basterfield's blog.

The "Alien Autopsy Memo" - An alleged 2001 National Institute for Discovery Science document surfaces

Some are quoted below from Vol 4. But I'd advise reading the full blog for a clearer picture. Remember the claims in the memo are that Kit Green was briefed on 3 different occasions (in 1981, 1987/88 and 1991/92) regarding an alien autopsy...

"Forbidden Science: Volume Four."



17 January 1995

Vallee writes. "Messages on the Internet propagate a new meme from England. It was initiated three days ago by Reg Presley, lead singer of the rock group The Troggs: he claims that a videotape has been discovered, showing the autopsy of an Alien at Roswell. He said there were fifteen such videotapes, totalling 150 minutes of footage, dated 1947. The media aren't buying it. Videotapes had not been invented in 1947."

13 March 1995

Rumors from Fred Beckman, that while in Brazil, "the military down there showed you some films of alien autopsies...they think you saw the same films that surfaced in England..." Vallee thinks the rumours are a joke.

7 October 1995

Vallee was at the Omega Communications Conference. "I saw...Stanton Friedman...He expounded on the alien autopsy 'film,' taking it at face value, although of course there's no film, only a video."

3 February 1996

Vallee was at a NIDS Science Advisory Board meeting in Las Vegas. "In other words, we only work on what we choose to work on; we don't drop everything just because someone shows up with a film of extraterrestrial autopsies..."

1 April 1996

Hal Puthoff and John Alexander interview Phil Corso. "Corso claims that he was given...various autopsy reports from Walter Reed Hospital."

3 May 1996

Vallee interviews Corso. Corso says "We had autopsy reports from Walter Reed."

"What did those say?"

"The beings had scaly skin. Their brains had two frontal lobes. By the way on the autopsy movie the brains do have these extra lobes. And the double eyelids. ..."

"Anything else?" John asked.

""They had atrophied sex organs."

13 January 1997

Vallee writes. "Colonel Corso called me at home this morning...he appears troubled by the fact that the analyzes he saw, reportedly coming from Walter Reed Hospital were very superficial and 'just didn't seem right.'"

7 September 1998

Vallee. "When I heard...that a new television program would soon describe in detail the 'Alien autopsies of the KGB,' I did feel like throwing up."

[Keith Basterfields comment]......In summary, Vallee's diaries are silent on the topic of Kit Green's briefings, as discussed in the 2001, Eric Davis to Bob Bigelow, NIDS memo, that appeared recently.

The nature of this whole story lacks consistency. The stories from the set of characters involved with Santilli do not always ring true and I think there are still grounds to doubt that the Alien Autopsy memo (or at least elements of it) are not completely accurate either. Maybe parts of previous email have been misquoted or creatively edited down for example.

This is also something we've recently seen with TTSA. Where the videos were supposedly from the Pentagon but the correct documentation was never forthcoming. Then a form was 'leaked' but it wasn't complete accurately.

Is this a tactic? Set up a distraction so people will argue about the minutiae whilst something else is really going on?

a reply to: mirageman

I wonder if the following doesn't explain 3/4 of it all:

...Hal hired James Westwood, former CIA expert on fake Soviet documents who had created similar fakes for disinformation. He paid him to bring his services to Bob Wood's project. 'Jim's verdict was that the "Eisenhower briefing document," cornerstone of the UFO coverup argument, had all the earmarks of a fake, an American disinformation document once meant to fool the KGB.'"

Either some of the crew stumbling across materials like these designed originally for Cold War intrigue or someone using them to throw off an "in-house" group getting to nosy in their search for what their own government is hiding or just yanking another "teammate's" chain.

The IC has a long history of cannibalizing their own at various times and for various reasons---Frank Olsen comes to mind. Kit should know better and I think he does. I used to think it was Hal playing with his "friends" heads for obscure national security reasons but the more information that turns up and gets collated the more it seems to keep pointing at Kit. Kit did stick up for Doty after all and I doubt Kit is a sucker.

Dr. Green might be a victim of having told so many tall-tales that keeping up with the strands and staying consistent has proven a daunting, even impossible, task.

Unidentified Aerial Phenomena - scientific research

As far as the mystery of "Kristin"---that's an outlier to all of this (probably) but it was a mystery I was personally keen to resolve every since she popped up in the "Team of 5" emails and which Vallee's journals finally gave enough info to solve---which was done in the last thread.

But the related question of how & why an IC scientist ends up working at General Motors is possibly a path worth pursuing if for no other reason than to continue to get a more robust understanding of Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green. I started digging--a little--on that awhile back and found a few intriguing hints but kind of forgot about it. Think I'll pick that back up just to see where it goes. If anyone else has any ideas on that please share.