Do those who believe the Authorized Version 1611 only guilty of Idol worship?

a reply to: Deetermined

I don’t know, you seem to be the oracle why not answer your own question
Humbly like a Christian not some arrogant Pharisee brow beating someone

Let’s be honest, nothing I say will appease your desire to be a hero and destroy those who don’t fall in behind you

a reply to: Raggedyman

You're the one with the desire to be a hero and gather stars instead of speaking the whole truth.

I'm not out to destroy anyone, however, your half truths will.

I'm disappointed that you no longer have the desire to confess who Jesus is before men the way you used to. I guess you feel more comfortable having people Google your keywords (like "reconcile") instead of explaining it to them yourself. You're acting hypocritical with your choice of using the word "humbly". I don't think you realize how often you do that, but speaking complete truth is more important than worrying about how many friends you're making or stars you're receiving.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Raggedyman

Tell me. If I showed you faults in your bible would that prove it has errors and if it has errors would that stop your relationship with Jesus?

Ok here it is

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: ChesterJohn

For mine, the bible, your bible has errors, it means nothing to me.
Jesus doesn’t have errors

BTW, Everyone,

No one said you cannot be a Christian if you don't believe the AV 1611 is the preserved word of God. Anyone, who tries to imply we have said such is in error and is lying.

We only say it is preserved, whole and complete English Bible, compared to ALL OTHER VERSIONS in English.

a reply to: Deetermined

Hey you can't convince a JW on why Jesus came here in the past, because 1) They don't beleive Jesus will come again. 2) they believe in replacement theology JW's have replace Israel and all the promises to Israel are now the JW's. 3) Jesus is just a little 'g'od not the fullness of God bodily. 4) There is no salvation apart from being a member of the JW cult. And 5) You must maintain good works in the JW cult or you are not truly saved.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
The 1611 AV might, I say might, have been a good Bible in its day, but the English language has moved on, scholarship has improved and spurious medieval doctrines which once influenced translations have been increasingly debunked. ...

Note that ChestorJohn's quotations from what he refers to or implies as the "1611 AV" (or the Bible, depending on how you read his comment) are not actually from a 1611 edition of the AV and has many differences with that edition. I doubt very much that ChestorJohn even has an exact copy of the 1611 edition (100% the same). See previous comment of mine, especially this part:

To the surprise of many people the King James Bible has already been changed; today no one reads the King James Version in its original form (original printings of which are also very rare and sometimes quite fragile; not really suited for everyday use). Explaining why this is so the book The Bible in Its Ancient and English Versions says: “Almost every edition, from the very beginning, introduced corrections and unauthorized changes and additions, often adding new errors in the process. The edition of 1613 shows over three hundred differences from 1611. . . . It was in the eighteenth century, however, that the main changes were made. . . . The marginal references were checked and verified, over 30,000 new marginal references were added, the chapter summaries and running headnotes were thoroughly revised, the punctuation was altered and made uniform in accordance with modern practice, textual errors were removed, the use of capitals was considerably modified and reduced, and a thorough revision made in the form of certain kinds of words.”

So many changes have been made, many of them in the readings of passages, that the Committee on Versions (1851-56) of the American Bible Society found 24,000 variations in six different editions of the King James Version!

What, then, of the objections raised by persons who say they do not want the King James Bible changed? Since the King James Version has already been changed, they lie on a crumbled foundation. If these persons do not want it changed, then why do they use, instead of a copy of an edition of 1611, an edition that has been changed? They use a present-day edition of the King James Bible because it is far easier to read. They appreciate, perhaps unknowingly, the improvements the later editions have made. They do not like the odd spelling and punctuation of the 1611 edition; they do not want to read “fet” for “fetched,” “sith” for “since” or “moe” for “more,” as the edition of 1611 had it. Thus improvement, when needed, is appreciated, even by those who say they object to any changing of the King James translation.

It is this very improvement that modern translations are providing by keeping pace with changing language, this for the purpose of making God’s Word clear, understandable, alive.

“For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul* and spirit,* and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart. And there is not a creation that is hidden from his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of the one to whom we must give an account.” (Hebrews 4:12,13; NW) And who is that according to the KJV as well, including the 1611 edition?

“That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.” (Psalms 83:18 KJV)

“Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold on to our public declaration of him. For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tested in all respects as we have, but without sin. Let us, then, approach the throne of undeserved kindness with freeness of speech, so that we may receive mercy and find undeserved kindness to help us at the right time.” (Hebrews 4:14-16; NW)

a reply to: ChesterJohn

While I know that whereislogic doesn't understand the whole Trinity aspect of God, I thought he still believed in the return of Jesus, even if it was just from the aspect of returning to claim God's people for him. I don't remember now and I doubt whereislogic will tell us how their beliefs differ from mainstream Christianity, but thanks for filling us in on the general beliefs of the JW's.

a reply to: Deetermined

No they wont they want you to think they are like you and after getting you into their organization then they indoctrinate you.

They build on another mans work of evangelism. JW's don't evangelize they proselytize, that is they steal weak sheep from Bible believing churches via deceit and every slight of man. They are the children of the Devil because he is the father of lies and a murder. They deceive and send men to hell (murder them spiritually) just like the devil does.

a reply to: Deetermined
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Luke 23:9 (NW)

9 So he [Herod] began to question him [Jesus] at length, but he gave him no answer. 10 However, the chief priests and the scribes kept standing up and vehemently accusing him [Jesus]. 11 Then Herod together with his soldiers treated him with contempt, and he mocked him by clothing him with a splendid* [Or “bright; shining.”] garment and then sent him back to Pilate. 12 Herod and Pilate became friends with each other on that very day, for before that they had been at enmity with each other.

The followers of Jesus always viewed him as a submissive servant of God, not as God’s equal. They prayed to God about “thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, . . . and signs and wonders are performed through the name of thy holy servant Jesus.”—Acts 4:23, 27, 30, RS, Catholic edition. Verse 27 from the NW says: “For truly both Herod and Pontius Pilate with men of the nations and with peoples of Israel were gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed,”.

Slanderous statements and false accusations are often hurled against Jehovah’s servants. “The chief priests and the scribes kept standing up and vehemently accusing [Jesus].” (Luke 23:10) Paul was falsely accused by High Priest Ananias and others. (Acts 24:1-8) And the Bible speaks of Satan as “the accuser of our brothers . . . , who accuses them day and night before our God.” (Revelation 12:10)

No Christian would want to slander anyone or make false accusations. Yet, that could happen if we did not have all the facts before bearing witness against someone. Under the Mosaic Law, deliberately testifying falsely could result in death for the accuser. (Exodus 20:16; Deuteronomy 19:15-19) Moreover, things detestable to Jehovah include “a false witness that launches forth lies.” (Proverbs 6:16-19) Surely, then, we want to avoid imitating the principal slanderer and false accuser.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Deetermined

...They are the children of the Devil because he is the father of lies and a murder. They deceive and send men to hell (murder them spiritually) just like the devil does.

Devil: The descriptive name of Satan in the Christian Greek Scriptures, which means “Slanderer.” Satan was given the name Devil because he is the chief and foremost slanderer and false accuser of Jehovah, His good word, and His holy name.​—Mt 4:1; Joh 8:44; Re 12:9.

In one instance, when Jesus expelled demons from a man, the Pharisees accused him of doing so by the power of “Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.” That they had reference to Satan is shown by Jesus’ answer: “If Satan expels Satan, he has become divided against himself.”​—Mt 12:22-27 (NW):

22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and speechless, and he cured him, so that the speechless man could speak and see. 23 Well, all the crowds were astounded and began to say: “May this not perhaps be the Son of David?” 24 At hearing this, the Pharisees said: “This fellow does not expel the demons except by means of Be·elʹze·bub, the ruler of the demons.” 25 Knowing their thoughts, he said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 In the same way, if Satan expels Satan, he has become divided against himself; how, then, will his kingdom stand? 27 Moreover, if I expel the demons by means of Be·elʹze·bub, by whom do your sons expel them? This is why they will be your judges.

“For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul* and spirit,* and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart. And there is not a creation that is hidden from his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of the one to whom we must give an account.” (Hebrews 4:12,13; NW) And who is that according to the KJV as well, including the 1611 edition at Psalms 83:18?

a reply to: whereislogic

You left out an important section of Acts 4 that explains that Jesus was much more than a servant of God. Jesus is the cornerstone that holds all things together and is the only mediator between God and man. There is no salvation in any other.

Acts 4:10-12

10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

a reply to: Deetermined

Then why did the laws change???

Why is there a hell now?? When in Judaism there as t??



Why is it faith >works now??


If Jesus wasn’t changing the laws, Christians sure have a funnily way of showing it

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: Deetermined

Then why did the laws change???

Go read Romans, chapter 2.

Why is there a hell now?? When in Judaism there as t??

In the Old Testament the Hebrew term is "Sheol".

Why is it faith >works now??

Because works made men too prideful and boastful. It's too easy for it to turn into a competition to see who can do more and then everyone's doing it for the wrong reasons instead of the right ones.

If Jesus wasn’t changing the laws, Christians sure have a funnily way of showing it

Once again, Jesus came to fulfill the laws so that men wouldn't be judged on their inability to follow the laws to the letter, because it's not possible. Jesus decided to show mercy through grace by faith.

a reply to: Deetermined

A) Sheol isn’t Hell..

Everyone goes to Sheol.. the good the bad.. everyone..

Which just helps highlight the structural differences...


So when did the fundamentals of the “heavenly realm” change??

The Jews just have Sheol..

No heaven... no hell.. just a purgatory where everyone waits to be resurrected “in the flesh” aka zombies without the rot, I guess..

Then magically a few hundred years after Christianity takes root “poof”!

Now there is a separate heaven and hell..

B) oh I think it was quite the opposite..

The powers that be needed an excuse for why they got to remain in power even with all their sinning ..

So they came up with the all too convenient..

“It doesn’t matter what I do.. it just matters what I feel on the inside.. wink, wink!”

With works you are actually required to put up or shut up, with faith it is all unmeasurable, emotional nonsense..


“It doesn’t matter that I lie, cheat and steal constantly, because I have faith on the inside!!”


Lol..

Where in Judaism it doesn’t matter how you feel on the inside.. it matters way more , what did you actually do with your time??


C) lol

Your just using semantics ..

“He didn’t change the laws, he fulfilled them and installed new ones..”

That’s changing the laws..

Additions and subtractions are both changes..

a reply to: JustJohnny

A) Sheol isn’t Hell..

Everyone goes to Sheol.. the good the bad.. everyone..

Which just helps highlight the structural differences...


So when did the fundamentals of the “heavenly realm” change??

The Jews just have Sheol..

No heaven... no hell.. just a purgatory where everyone waits to be resurrected “in the flesh” aka zombies without the rot, I guess..

Then magically a few hundred years after Christianity takes root “poof”!

Sheol is divided and isn't the same for everyone. Maybe this article will help...

Hell, Sheol, Hades, Paradise, and the Grave

www.bereanbiblesociety.org...

As for who will be living in the Millennial Kingdom on earth (not the Kingdom of God/Heaven), it will look something more like this...

The Millennial Kingdom will be populated by three “categories” or “types” of people

www.truthortradition.com...

Then after the millennial period (Millennial Kingdom) on earth is over (1,000 years), Satan will released from the Abyss to wreak havoc one last time during the final battle of Gog and Magog and the "New Jerusalem/Heaven" replaces earth altogether as we know it.

a reply to: JustJohnny

Your just using semantics ..

“He didn’t change the laws, he fulfilled them and installed new ones..”

That’s changing the laws..

Additions and subtractions are both changes..

I don't expect you to understand, but God's not done with the Jews yet. As long as they refuse to accept Jesus as their Savior, they're going to be judged by the old laws, plus many of the old laws are going to be re-established in the Millennial Kingdom. God's going to show the Jews what Israel would have looked like if they hadn't rejected him. That's why Christians and Jews live under different sets of laws.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Thank you, better than my words would have conveyed

In seeking spiritualism, many of us want to mount a white horse with sword of truth in hand, to ride into Bethlehem, seeking nothing but applause for our righteousness. But those that attain spiritualism are more happy to ride a donkey into Bethlehem, seeking nothing but the love of God.

This transformation, switching our focus from mind-ego-self to heart-spirit-altruism is perhaps birthing.

I admire you.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
CJ the fact the bible has a few errors means nothing to me, I have told you that many times
I did not say and have never said the bible means nothing to me
You are implying I mean the bible has no value and that is not something I have ever said

You are trying to win not understand, you are the most disgraceful of christians, shoving your opinions on others

So my question stand still

Tell me. If I showed you faults in your bible would that prove it has errors and if it has errors would that stop your relationship with Jesus?

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Raggedyman

You're the one with the desire to be a hero and gather stars instead of speaking the whole truth.

I'm not out to destroy anyone, however, your half truths will.

I'm disappointed that you no longer have the desire to confess who Jesus is before men the way you used to. I guess you feel more comfortable having people Google your keywords (like "reconcile") instead of explaining it to them yourself. You're acting hypocritical with your choice of using the word "humbly". I don't think you realize how often you do that, but speaking complete truth is more important than worrying about how many friends you're making or stars you're receiving.

Get use to disappointment, ther is more to come

a reply to: whereislogic

Hey whereis
There is an analogy about removing the beam from your own eye before someone else’s

Have you ever studied your own translation and all the issues it has or is that not allowed

I believe the KJV is a pretty good version, probably one of the best. The NWT wouldn’t sit on my shelf other than to show people what is different and explain why it stands alone as a testament to JW.org theology

Go study the failing of your own translation and then I will value your comments, right now you offer nothing but hypocrisy

a reply to: glend

Thank you 🌈