Do those who believe the Authorized Version 1611 only guilty of Idol worship?

a reply to: NoClue

I am saying he is a personal being, who does speak and gave us all we need for life and godliness.

Once given his words he preserved them to each generation since.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

I consider it more than a tool but not an Idol.

a reply to: JustJohnny

If a person believes the word of God (in this case the AV1611) is the perfect word of God it does not mean they are worshiping it or idolizing it. I nor anyone I know sacrifice to it and that would be a main feature in worshiping it.

In my opinion you can burn them all day long and it is not blasphemy. Any Christian who thinks so then yes maybe it is an idol to them. But those like me who feel the way I do about the AV1611 we wouldn't care if you burn it or not.

Your opinion of it seeming it is like idolatry does not make it so. There is criteria for idolatry and that criteria is what needs to be in place to make it idol worship.

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: Deetermined

Isn’t a prophecy predicting Jesus , that wasn’t recorded until after Jesus’s crucifixion, kinda nonsensical lol??

Please provide n example of what you are saying.

a reply to: JustJohnny

First questions answer, No.

Second questions answer, No, I would not be friends with someone if they disregarded the bible period they wouldn't even have to be burning them for me not to be friends. I associate with people all the time who reject the words of God but I am not friends with them.

Third questions answer, my befriending a person on the bases of burning jerseys is not even in the field of why I befriend anyone.

Forth questions answer, No.

I don't think that believing the Bible is the perfect word of God in my language is idol worshiping.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Do they worship it an defend it, do they place its teachings above the leading of the Holy Spirit
The religious Jews were condemned by Jesus because they were putting the law and text before Love
There is a word for people who worship text, defend it like you do, defend it as if without that text you wouldn’t be able to know and love Jesus, wouldn’t be able to love others

Before your hallowed 1811 scriptures came along, many people loved Christ and others without it or your help

Worship it, well pretty close and it seems the “book” is more important to you than people

Just my opinion

a reply to: JustJohnny

Reply to 1) Not all Christians see Christianity in the OT. I do believe that we can get an application from it because it was written for our learning, but it in no way pictures Christianity.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Reply to 2) Jew's do have sons? Yes. But I believe you meant to indicate they do not believe God had a son. Yes Jew do call God their father. However, Paul indicates that in this time (that is until the gathering) God is father all all them which believe on Jesus Christ.

Rom 4:11, 16 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: . . . 16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
1Cor 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
1Thess 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Reply to 3) While you are somewhat correct that works in the OT matter, the works are done because they have faith God will perform that which is promised by doing the works. Basically it is work plus faith.

Reply to 4) It is true they had many messiahs (anointed ones) but they all knew that certain criteria for that one messiah to be the true promised messiah. For example they were told he would come from Nazzareth

Matt 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

I think you meant to say Judaism is fundamentally, Structurally different from Christianity. And yes it is.

Jesus did not come to change the law even though it was falsely said he did.

Acts 6:14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.

And though the writer of Hebrews made mention of the necessity to change the law it was just about the priesthood and not the law itself.

Ac 6:14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.

Yes it is true Christianity is fully structured differently than Judaism but any Christian can make a sacrifice (Spiritual ones not literal OT ones).

Roms 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.
Philippians 4:18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things [which were sent] from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: Deetermined

But you can’t use a quote from John to prove that...

Because John wasn’t written until 120 years after the crucifixion..

John was written 60 years after the crucifixion not 120 as you claim. Otherwise you make John to live to well beyond 120 years old or that it wasn't written by John.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: JustJohnny

I don't expect you to understand this since you don't appear to me to understand Christianity all that well, but here are a couple of links to help you understand...

Best to always refer them to read the bible enough to understand it or at least be familiar with it. Or anyone online could just lead him astray.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Listen closely, Raggedyman. The day is coming where love isn't going to be enough. The Bible speaks of a time when God's elite will be on the brink of being deceived and the Bible is going to be the only thing left speaking truth and helping people to decipher what's Christ and what's Anti-Christ. If people don't know their Bibles and remember God's words, they're going to be the easiest to deceive.

While showing God's love is a commendable thing, sometimes it leads to enabling and dysfunction. I know families who are doing so much for their grown adult kids that their enabling them straight into the pits of hell and death. Sometimes tough love is required. Sometimes, good loving Christians need to know where to draw the line so not to be brought down by those they are trying to help.

Lastly, there are too many people who truly don't understand the difference between the Holy Spirit and other spirits, so it's best to use God's word as the key to knowing the difference.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Do they worship it an defend it,

I will speak in defense of the Bible but I do not worship it. You can defend something without worshiping it. I will defend my family, my neighborhood and my country but I do not worship them.

do they place its teachings above the leading of the Holy Spirit

I check all the Holy Ghost/Spirit leads/guides to the preserved words of God if it agrees I obey. If not I don't. Roman Catholics will physically war over its doctrine but they have no real believe that any Bible is the preserved words of God. Jews mey war over the OT but I have not seen any instance of it in the OT.

The religious Jews were condemned by Jesus because they were putting the law and text before Love

I don't think Jesus said "Love" he did say

Matt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

There is a word for people who worship text, defend it like you do, defend it as if without that text you wouldn’t be able to know and love Jesus, wouldn’t be able to love others

You are judging me according to your opinion I do not worship the text of the AV1611 Bible, I defend it as the pure, preserved inspired English Bible but only with words never physically like fist fights or physical battle. To say such means you do not understand what I have said in my post or my replies.

Before your hallowed 1811 scriptures came along, many people loved Christ and others without it or your help

If you were a gentleman you would not resort to being sarcastic and degrading you would be loving in your actions and your words, do you not see your hypocrisy. As far as love I love people enough to tell them about Jesus Christ and what he has done for them and even if they don't except it I don't not love them. And you are correct people had the word of God in the language of their day. But you must remember Loving Jesus will not get you to heaven or save you from a burning hell.

Worship it, well pretty close and it seems the “book” is more important to you than people. Just my opinion

Not once have I ever given you a reason to think I don't see people as important. as you say it is only your opinion. But opinions do not truth make. It would seem more like you are not loving as you claim otherwise you would not reply to me in the manner in which you have.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Not once?
This thread is you fighting for defending a book

The book is not the Word, Jesus is the word

For mine, the bible, your bible has errors, it means nothing to me.
Jesus doesn’t have errors

The 1611 AV might, I say might, have been a good Bible in its day, but the English language has moved on, scholarship has improved and spurious medieval doctrines which once influenced translations have been increasingly debunked. To be more specific, I have come to prefer more modern translations, which lack some of the odd confusing terminology, though I will admit the KJV has some slick pronoun coding. My current fave is "The Scriptures," a translation out of South Africa. Next, I have come to see that Old Testaments based on the LXX are superior to the much more common Masoretic OT's. Lastly, I have come to see the worthlessness and worse than worthlessness of the doctrine of eternal damnation and Hell. To hell with Hell - and it is disappearing from modern translations.

Tell me, Chester John, how can you defend the 1611 KJV when the king required the translation team to uphold the Divine Right of Kings?

If you are a non-Anglican, why do you care to follow a Bible which was translated per the Anglican Church?

a reply to: Deetermined

We disagree, I am not bothered by the faults in the bible, any bible, I accept them
I am saved by Jesus not the written word
I know enough of my bible to know not to put my faith in it

And I do know my bible, not saying it has no worth or is irrelevant, I study frequently

My argument is against people who put to much emphasis on “a” bible and not what it teaches or to exestentialy live it’s teachings in the real world

I don’t read the kjv does that mean hell fire?

a reply to: Raggedyman

No this thread is about someone not being an idolator for being a Bible believer, even in just one version.

Do you really believe Jesus is the Word? If so why in the past did you say that 1 John 5:7 was an error?

1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

The Bible is a book that contain the words of God, that book is for our correct living of life and godliness. I do not put the Bible above God, His Son or the Holy Ghost. But before I believe on anything any man, spirit or angel has to say I check it by the word of God. That is believing that the Bible is the final authority for life in this world. If you say the word of God in any version is full of errors. You are in essence saying that God is not powerful enough to keep his words preserved to every generation for ever, that his words are not pure and that the words of God are not true. When God's word says they are. So who is right you or God?

Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Psalm 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

If we cannot believe Gods word, that there is a bible that is without errors in our generation, then we will only be left to put our trust in weak fallible men to tell us. And we would have nothing by which to see if what they say is true.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

When have you spoke to Jesus Christ face to face and know that it is him and not some other Jesus? Any time I hear from my Lord Jesus Christ (of which I have not ever seen face to face) I check what I have heard to the word of God, if it agrees then I may surmise it is He or the Holy Ghost or God the Father himself.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Can the Bible be used as an idol?

The following is my answer.
"Idolatry" is almost always the term thrown at those who believe that the AV 1611 Bible is the pure, preserved words of God. But let us examine that for a minute.

(1) Do AV 1611 Bible believers look at the word of God as something made by man (as an idol)? No, they do not, for they know that every word in that Book proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

(2) Do they genuflect (bow down) before the word of God as do those who bow to a statue of Mary, St. Joseph, etc? No, they do not.

(3) Do they pray to the word of God, as pagans pray to their images of wood and stone? No, they do not.

(4) Do they mount it on the dashboard of their car (as a statue of St. Matthew, or some other) for good luck, or safety during travel? No, they do not. But they MAY leave their Bible in the car after church on Sunday, for the whole week, LOL! More out of neglect, than for "good luck".

(5) Do they put the word of God up on a prominent shelf, in between two blinking electric candles, and glance reverently at it once in a while? No, they do not.

So instead of "idolatry", what is a AV 1611 Bible believer "guilty" of?

(1) He is guilty of receiving it "not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God ." They actually believe the words are God's words.

(2) He is guilty of magnifying the word of God above the name of God....just as God Himself does.... Ps 138:2 "I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name." Why so? Think about it -- the word of God tells us EVERYTHING we know about man's sin, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, salvation that is offered by grace through faith, etc. The word of God is the ONE MATERIAL THING that God has given to man to represent Himself, that we may read it, believe it, study it, and count on it.

(3) He is guilty of believing that God actually DID preserve his words to every generation, and that those words are not "lost", but he actually has all of those preserved words in the Bible in his hand. Psalm 12:6-7 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

I am a AV 1611 Bible believer. I read it, study it, believe every word of it, and count on it completely. When I am done studying it, I put it in a drawer, or lay a notebook on it -- I am not superstitious, and the words of God are not my "idol", but those words are a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. I thank God for the AV 1611 Bible; the inspired, pure, preserved words of God in my mother tongue.

I don't disagree with a single thing you say...

a reply to: Lazarus Short

The false teaching that there was a whole Bible in Greek that is called the LLX is just that false. Jerome wrote it over 250 years after John the beloved penned his writings in 95AD, the corrupt LXX is also known as the Septuagint.

Please show me some of the confusing terminology.

I have not once read or heard in any secular or Christian history of the translation of the AV 1611 that it was written for the purpose of preserving or promoting the divine right of kings. So I do not and will not defend such a false teach as that. I do know that it may be forced on the scriptures but it was done so by the Roman Catholics not the Puritans or the Anglicans. From all the histories of the AV1611 I have never read the James ever said that he wanted a version to promote the divine right of kings. The RC church claims the right to crown kings in this world and them only.

The Bible was not translated solely by Anglicans and the Puritans, these two groups were split between three groups and each group was assigned a section of the scriptures to translate. The puritans and the Anglicans were opposed to the other. Wanting peace between the two sects the King had them work on this translation forcing them to work together.

So the Bible may have only been translated by these two groups you must remember it is God who inspired the work they were attempting to do for God.

a reply to: Iscool

Thank you, not many here would say such.

a reply to: Raggedyman

No it does not mean hell fire.

You know I did not know anything about the KJV only issues (because of those issues I refer to that Bible as the AV1611) when a man without even arguing for or against it asked me to read it? I said yes and he gave me my first AV1611 Bible.

Before I started to read it, I prayed, "Lord if this be your preserved word of God I come to it with a heart of learning show me truth from it."

By the time I finished the first reading of it one year later in 2006 I learned and saw things I never saw before and I had at that time been saved and reading a bible daily since 1993. Today I only read and study the AV1611.

I do try my best by the help of the Holy Ghost to live my life by it.

Let me ask you, "How do you know what words, phrases, verses and sections in the Bible are in error? How do you know they are in error and to what do you compare it to to know it is in error?

Here is a good video teaching on this subject. It should help you to understand what Idolatry truly is.