What builds the enlightened state?

a reply to: CthruU

Please what ?

One word replies are frowned upon on ATS

care to elaborate

Also those words are not my own but the analogy of the buddha pointing to the moon when asked what enlightenment was!

and zen masters who simply smile when asked !

originally posted by: LucidWarrior
I should hardly need to explain what I mean by enlightened but here goes anyway. I see enlightenment as the ideal state for any being with conscious awareness and attention; in that it consists of optimal conditions within said awareness and attention- such that the will is refined by wisdom and empathy, and is not faced with barriers such as reaction, impulse, desire, etc.

First off - your definition on 'enlightenment' appears predicated on the 'will', so please provide your definition of the word.

I have always understood the word 'will' to mean the motive and intent which produces 'action' (mental, physical or spiritual) and therefore is largely ego based.

Which would, to me, seem counter to my, very limited, understanding of enlightenment as a 'shift' from selfish-ego based existence to a selfless, collective existence.

originally posted by: LucidWarrior

How, then, are we to reach out from where we are to where we wish to be?

By-
Being compassionate to others.

Caring for your habitat and others you share it with. This will help ascend your consciousness from the planet to the universe as you would apply the same behavior or thinking.

Not being judgmental to others but be observant of their actions.

Love yourself even if it seems like no one else does. Then you are not emotionally controlled on external input from others who may act like they Love you one moment but not the next. Which can seriously offset your spiritual vibrations. If you let it.

Know the CREATOR of your Eternal soul/spirit/internal energy Loves you, otherwise would of denied your Creation.

A very simple point that makes lots of sense is follow the Golden Rule. Doing so will help layout your spiritual foundation overall.

Do not beat yourself up mentally if you feel you are not reaching some point of elevated awareness immediately, take your time and be patient with yourself. It may be a blessing/gift for the developing.
You got to keep in mind the more enlightened you become the less things you originally thought and were taught may make sense to you in this world and some things may become more clear you didn't expect to learn of.
Example after Truth seeking for so long I became more aware religiously aware of the Abrahamic faiths in order of creation Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
I learned more that Abraham was a major influence on all three religions yet they have had many crusaders or wars in the past that have killed many.
Being more aware - enlightened on the subject it kind of hurt mentally because I see so many people around me who worship these religions and other religions yet so much pain is and has been generated from them today and in the past. TO BE CLEAR NOT DENYING RELIGION.
My spiritual development helped me through it as I processed and became more aware of Abraham. And Abrahams connection to ANNUNAKI GOD LORD ENLIL...
The GODS... Of old and new testament, more enlightenment... As the Serpent seemed to love mankind

Again take your time with Truth seeking which will automatically enlighten you because some things your learn of may temporary disrupt your thinking and perceptions until your consciousness sorts them out.

Last, be real with yourself EVEN WHEN NOBODY SEES YOU. ACT LIKE THE CREATOR HAS A ALL-SEEING EYE(s) that can see you when no one else does. Don't act accordingly because you may be WATCHED by higher powers but because you are mature enough to know what's right or wrong.
Good Luck

Words alone have little chance of bringing enlightenment. You can read Alan Watts till hell freezes over and still be spiritually blind as a bat. Eventually you need to get off your ass and do something, even if it's wrong.

Be taught by the source of time.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

No need to force awareness into the now........ All seeing and knowing is ever present. That is why Saint Francis of Assisi said 'we are looking for what is looking'.

Our brain will continually move our awareness from the Now into past dreams, future desires. Which turns us into something not much better than zombies sleep walking throughout life. By continually asking ourselves where our awareness is now, we can reign in the brain, so it doesn't impact our presence in the Now as much.

But its not a matter of one or the other. We need the brain and its ego to sustain our livelihood in this world. We need the eye for spiritual aspirations. Thus a middle way. So each blends into the other.

Black absorbs light. Convert to African if you want to be filled with light.

a reply to: glend

The thoughts that speak of the past or future can only appear now.... no appearing thing (including thoughts) can appear outside now.
So awareness is always now.

Just notice that when thought occurs it is most often speaking about 'what is not happening'..... the cure is to see and hear... look and listen... 'what actually is happening'.

Go to the Quora website and search for: 'The dream of separation'........ it is pretty enlightening

a reply to: Itisnowagain

"So awareness is always now."

I would not argue this point unless I thought it was crucial. Mind and time are inseparable, Only our seat of consciousness exists in the Now, Our seat of consciousness Is not created by mind, It is the eye of our soul. If you continually muddy the soul with thoughts from the brain then you are not in the now. The brain must be taught to serve, not master, our consciousness.

Past and future veil God from our sight; burn up both of them with fire ... Rumi

It took me some time to figure out that the third eye in Hinduism is not something to attain, but to realise.

a reply to: Hombre

A house is built brick on brick, but only if you choose to. See Jesus, he turned water into wine in no time.

In an earlier thread you speculated about what happened to Jesus during/after the crucifixion.

Might help to read the account of Jesus return in John 20-21 first, do the math then “Come and have breakfast.”?

So maybe enlightenment is just the experience of finding something that works better for you.
In the case of Stoner revelations they might be less likely to be what a mason had in mind.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Itisnowagain

"So awareness is always now."

I would not argue this point unless I thought it was crucial. Mind and time are inseparable, Only our seat of consciousness exists in the Now, Our seat of consciousness Is not created by mind, It is the eye of our soul.

The thoughts about other times appear now and are seen now..... so the eye is now.

The mind isn't a thing that travels in time..... the mind occurs as thought speak now. The stories the mind tell make believe that there is time.... if it did not where would there be a place for any thing to be separate?

You may believe that you are a person in time...... but really you are the ever present witness of what is appearing to happen.

Have you noticed that you are the one constant.... and everything else is constantly changing?
But what you really are never makes an appearance..... you are the seeing/knowing presence.

When the tv screen is full of a moving image... the screen is not noticed..... but without the screen no apparent thing could appear.
You are the ever present screen on which existence appears.

You may have believed that the world was here before you and everything exists...... but no apparent thing can be without your presence, not as an apparent person for that apparent person is just an appearance that appears and disappears each night.

Enlightenment is the end of the separate self........ it is the recognition that everything is appearing and disappearing and no one is doing anything...... It is just happening.

There has never been a separate self.....


There is no me.
This is probably the best 2 min enlightening vid ever.

originally posted by: LucidWarrior

That said, what steps actually go into achieving such a state? Does one look into their world, or themselves?

Look at what is actually appearing. And then look to what is looking......without a mirror because the mirror and it's content would be of the appearance.

Does the seer ever appear?

Thoughts shimmer and disappear,

Thoughts appear at the same instant that they disappear..... all that appears is disappearing...... close the eyes and notice sound.... it is harder to notice with vision.

What everything is appearing on/in is not noticed... it is overlooked because it does not appear as something.... it is not a thing but no apparent thing could appear without it.

Again... it is not unlike the tv screen... the screen goes unnoticed when it is full of apparent moving things.

How, then, are we to reach out from where we are to where we wish to be?

There isn't anywhere other........ but the thoughts will convince you there is if you believe thought instead of eyes.

originally posted by: Slichter
a reply to: Hombre

A house is built brick on brick, but only if you choose to. See Jesus, he turned water into wine in no time.

In an earlier thread

So what are you trying to tell me, Slichter, with this ?

Jesus turned water into wine, in no time. What does this have to do with writings in other threads ?

Please tell me how do you, mathematically, calculate an empty bowl, which has feed multitude of people ?

I have not speculated about crucifixion. From God's point of view, death can not be, and so crucifixion could not have been. But for you on earth, who thinks in time's terms - (in past and future) one appears to be first, then other had to follow.
This is not hard to understand. It is God's point of view, which Counts. But God did not created an immortal body. God created an immortal light being - or your soul. The problem is, you believe that you are a physical body. And only because of this belief, you are a physical body.

Remove the belief, and you will understand that ENLIGHTMENT is. It is already there, it has always been there. You were just blocking it. How ? well i can not tell you, yet, how, because i'm learning how to remove the blocks.

I can tell you that there are blocks, for they were, temporarily, set aside, here (ealier).

And i have learned alot while the blocks were lowered.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

"What builds the enlightened state?"

Time and patience.

Thing is then senility or death comes along thus kind of defeats the purpose i suppose.

Entropy being a female dog.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: LucidWarrior
I should hardly need to explain what I mean by enlightened but here goes anyway. I see enlightenment as the ideal state for any being with conscious awareness and attention; in that it consists of optimal conditions within said awareness and attention- such that the will is refined by wisdom and empathy, and is not faced with barriers such as reaction, impulse, desire, etc.

First off - your definition on 'enlightenment' appears predicated on the 'will', so please provide your definition of the word.

I have always understood the word 'will' to mean the motive and intent which produces 'action' (mental, physical or spiritual) and therefore is largely ego based.

Which would, to me, seem counter to my, very limited, understanding of enlightenment as a 'shift' from selfish-ego based existence to a selfless, collective existence.

exactly as the zen master asked when he was asked by a young monk or the western traveller
"I want to be enlightened" said the young monk to the zen master

the zen master asked " Who is it that wants to be enlightened?"

p.s. this is kinda continuation of my earlier post, because i thought it would be helpfull.

It is written as would a book be written, addressing no one personally.

Have you ever heard of the saying "Fighting for peace, is like screaming for silence." ?

As i mentioned earlier, the enlightened state already is. Imagine it like with the above statement.

Peace or silence or the quiet is always present. This is undeniable. Only Screams may seem to interrupt the quiet, but does not really change the fact that it is there.

And so it is with the enlightment. If you like, you can have it slow and try to build it up or (how i say) to remove the blocks which enables you to recognize it. You only need to stop "screaming" (screaming here is a parabel).

See Buddha, he did "nothing" to reach the enlighment state. "Basically, he sat for years and meditated"
But you have to recognize the obstacle here.
There is a part of your mind, a small part of it, which is active, in this world. It almost never rests, and always wants to do something. It would even try to DO nothing, if you order it to do nothing.
If you identify with it, you will believe that whatever you "do" is not working, and you will speak against it, accordingly.

Meditation is one of the keys(ways) to enlightment. When you get enlightened, you will have certain type of Knowledge.

There are 2 types of knowledge (and i'm not separating it in terms of good or bad). There is a knowledge, which is unchangeable and eternal, and there is temporal knowledge, which you use for and in the daily life.

Your task is to meditate and to let go of all thoughts of the temporal knowledge. You do this by letting the worldly mind join with (or return to) the eternal mind.

There are many other ways to attain enlighment, even in your daily life. And the bible suggest you to be "Perfect" - to be honest, to be happy, no wrongdoings etc etc.
If you follow it, it will bring you enlightment, at some point, too.

But there is this catch. To reach it, you have to "do" it. Else, this conversation remains in the realm of intellectual conversation, but enlightment brings experience with it, which can not be attained by endless debating.

a reply to: Hombre

I agree its a total discipline

like you have to keep your mind sharpened like an axe!

a reply to: Hombre

It is the recognition that the mind (thoughts occuring) arises and falls away in silence.

This is a sweet discussion about quieting the mind.
The Quiet that Contains the Mind.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Go to the Quora website and search for: 'The dream of separation'........ it is pretty enlightening

But to go somewhere is pointless? There is only the "now" hahahaha

Searching involves the "thinking brain" and dwells in the past, no?