What builds the enlightened state?

I should hardly need to explain what I mean by enlightened but here goes anyway. I see enlightenment as the ideal state for any being with conscious awareness and attention; in that it consists of optimal conditions within said awareness and attention- such that the will is refined by wisdom and empathy, and is not faced with barriers such as reaction, impulse, desire, etc.

That said, what steps actually go into achieving such a state? Does one look into their world, or themselves? Must one become a hermit or mini; a televangelist, or a missionary?

A house is not built in broad strokes, but laid brick by brick. What then are the bricks of consciousness, the lasting foundation which is necessary for a work to continue? Thoughts shimmer and disappear, words remain aloof, feelings are fickle and either shallow or way too deep. states of awareness seem to be the way but are much too ephemeral.

How, then, are we to reach out from where we are to where we wish to be?

a reply to: LucidWarrior

The best explanation of enlightenment was from something I read.

A man at the side of the road saw a guru walking by with a heavy bag. The man asked the guru, "Sir. I have a question. What is enlightenment?"

The guru smiled and set his bag down.

The mans eyes opened wide and he said, "I understand. But sir what happens after enlightenment."

The guru smiled again, picked up the bag and kept walking.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

How, then, are we to reach out from where we are to where we wish to be?

I walked the path of the shaman. The use of sacraments, ritual and a spiritual adept to help light the way.

Some are simply born with the Buddha nature.

I always thought that enlightenment was being able to separate the material from the spiritual. Knowing and understanding all material wants and needs. Understanding and full recognizing biology. The need to eat. The need to procreate. The need for safety. Then being able to understand the wants and desires of the soul. Being true to yourself and recognizing karma.

One of the sources that I have used to extensively is PD Ouspensky tales of Gurdjieff.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Three step process. Thesis, Antithesis, and then synthesis. Rinse and repeat for all sorts of questions, the mind and spirit is forever moving forward, but at times jumping back and forth using memory to create stronger and stronger thesis' and antithesis'. Hegel as much of a crazy guy he's painted out to be, was onto something.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Optimal state of being for.. what?

Can I have the underwater living mod?

I think that any definition that precludes growth and movement may be problematic. Of course, on these topics, we are dealing pretty much exclusively with irony and contradiction due to their nature.

Personally, Id define "enlightenment" as the continuous awareness (or not) of what is already happening, including our thoughts, etc. It seems anything else tends to bring us further into our own minds, even when we think we are doing the very opposite.. In that, goals like ego destruction, emptying the mind, separation of material & spiritual, etc. lead us astray. Or exactly where we need to go (because these things are funny like that).

I always felt it was reaching a baseline of sorts, perhaps even a reference point illustrated through stories like the biblical "fall." Not some great, single moment achievement, but a return to a foundation that is simply an awareness of what is already happening (rather than what we think about what is happening).

Arguably, the external stimuli of being is run through our neurology the same as our thoughts, but the extra layers of processing seem to yield substantially different results. And, eschewing any part of it, like thoughts, sense of self, awareness, mindfulness, may all be as detrimental as one another even though things like lack of mindfulness tend to get all the airtime.

All of it is the epitome of wacky, and there really isnt a point. Which is lovely..

Good questions LucidWarrior. Unfortunately I am still looking for the answers to those same questions. One tidbit of information I recently acquired is that we cannot find enlightenment in the dreams of the mind. We need force our awareness into the Now. Not allow the mind to wander and daydream in past or future desires. The reason is that our very seat of consciousness is the eye of our spirit. If we allow the brain to bombard that eye with its nonsense then the subtle messages from the spirit are lost in the noise. Because the mind seeks activity. its not an easy aim to achieve.

I feel that finding enlightenment in a noisy environment is difficult but not impossible. That we need find the time to meditate for at least three hours a day. So I look at what I do each day and determine if I do those tasks to promote my spirituality or the activity of my mind. Many of the things I do, is to promote activity of the mind (and that includes ats).

Not much help I know.

originally posted by: LucidWarrior
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How, then, are we to reach out from where we are to where we wish to be?

Were 'enlightenment' to be 'achieved': would there still be wishing?

So if one was to eliminate wishing: would that not be closer to 'enlightenment' ?

Perhaps in 'doing' less: we could 'be' 'more'?

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: LucidWarrior

The best explanation of enlightenment was from something I read.

A man at the side of the road saw a guru walking by with a heavy bag. The man asked the guru, "Sir. I have a question. What is enlightenment?"

The guru smiled and set his bag down.

The mans eyes opened wide and he said, "I understand. But sir what happens after enlightenment."

The guru smiled again, picked up the bag and kept walking.

Nailed it! LoL !

Here is a good partner to your analogy:

@Op: In my understanding, the Enlightenment state is not Built up at all. It is already there.

If it is experienced as building up, then only because the old, unserving thoughts were slowly, one by one, set aside.

And if you think that there is "After" enlighment, then you simply pickup the stone, like that Guru, and continue in the old ways, which is, then, your choice.

A house is built brick on brick, but only if you choose to. See Jesus, he turned water into wine in no time.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: LucidWarrior

The best explanation of enlightenment was from something I read.

A man at the side of the road saw a guru walking by with a heavy bag. The man asked the guru, "Sir. I have a question. What is enlightenment?"

The guru smiled and set his bag down.

The mans eyes opened wide and he said, "I understand. But sir what happens after enlightenment."

The guru smiled again, picked up the bag and kept walking.

Before enlightenment:
Chop wood.... Carry water.

After enlightenment:
Chop wood...... Carry water.

Instead of chopping wood and carrying water wishing for something other.... there is just chopping wood and carrying water.

What is is.

But the seeking mind is not content or satisfied with what actually is..... it wants something else (including enlightenment..... because enlightenment is thought to be something to obtain or build or achieve).

a reply to: glend

No need to force awareness into the now........ All seeing and knowing is ever present.
That is why Saint Francis of Assisi said 'we are looking for what is looking'.

Everything appears and disappears now...... within the seeing and knowing placeless place.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

How, then, are we to reach out from where we are to where we wish to be?

You need to have dealt with where you are first before you can move on to where you wish to be. Simply tend to the part of the garden you can reach.

a reply to: surfer_soul

Wishing for other is the banishment from the garden.
No one ever left the garden but paradise was lost because there is the belief (thought) that there is something that there is not.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I put enlightenment as simply.

The state of becoming aware of something that was right in front of you but you failed to understand the significance because you were too self absorbed.

a reply to: grey580

The end of being obsessed with something which never existed.

No one will ever become enlightened.... it is the end of an illusion.

Finding out that Santa is not real is a non event.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

not trying to achieve enlightenment helps !


aye as the buddha said pointing at the moon , dont confuse the finger for the moon


but the zen master would say , dont try to reach enlightenment , the very act of trying prevents you from reaching it

instead when asked what zen is they smile !

Enlightenment isnt changing into something or becoming something, it is the realisation that we are already enlightened by the very fact we exist as conscious beings !

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Love in ones heart always.

Sincerity in giving and caring.

A honest desire to be wholly unmaterialistic and fullfilling the desire.

Donation of ones time to reflection.

These are the basic get started building blocks of the enlightened stage.

Refining these and mastering these will allow enlightenment to enter one's self providing further guidance specific to the individuals requirements.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: LucidWarrior

not trying to achieve enlightenment helps !


aye as the buddha said pointing at the moon , dont confuse the finger for the moon


but the zen master would say , dont try to reach enlightenment , the very act of trying prevents you from reaching it

instead when asked what zen is they smile !

Enlightenment isnt changing into something or becoming something, it is the realisation that we are already enlightened by the very fact we exist as conscious beings !

Please.