You want proof of evolution at work, here it is.... Enjoy! (Observable and testable).

a reply to: puzzlesphere

You asked:

if god created all the things we see , why then did he design plants that alter our DNA and break his fantastic programming, why did he make the sun to sustain us but also to alter our DNA

I told you that answer is in genesis.

You know, I love how your types pretend you want to understand why god did this or that, but then, when pointed to the authority on the matter you resort to attacks along the lines of "well that's not real." Then why are you asking about it?

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Raggedyman

This is why ATS should have a sticker or something by peoples online moniker.

You know jews get a star, Christians get a little cross sticker next to there name, Buddhists get a little Buddha next to there name, and so on.

If you believe I care what religion you are. You are mistaken.

So what religion do you partake off? you know so I dont mistake you for a follower of xenu next time.

What I am is not going to make your comments anymore intelligent or interesting
You have a good day

a reply to: Dfairlite

the answer may well be in genesis for some people but to me its just a book without answers!

yes yes its all a part of the grand plan , which he never told anyone about not even the angels !

maybe thats why lucifer got pissed because it was above his pay grade , ABOVE TOP SECRET! haha .

You confused me with those "types" I dont want to understand why god did anything because I dont believe in GOD .

Im basically saying that his design is pretty sub par at best ! even his creation will come to an end with entropy death

but what does it even matter when its all illusory!

I am asking about it for fun!

a reply to: Dfairlite

the authority on the matter! , from one book , how does that book make him the authority when there are countless books to countless gods claiming the same thing ?

who is the right one ?


probably off topic but , in genesis god said he'd make a covenant with Abraham , he would bless him and curse his enemies

if we are all gods creations why the special treatment with Abraham and cursing his enemies if those enemies are also gods creation?

dont feel compelled by my curiosity to answer

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Raggedyman

This is why ATS should have a sticker or something by peoples online moniker.

You know jews get a star, Christians get a little cross sticker next to there name, Buddhists get a little Buddha next to there name, and so on.

If you believe I care what religion you are. You are mistaken.

So what religion do you partake off? you know so I dont mistake you for a follower of xenu next time.

What I am is not going to make your comments anymore intelligent or interesting
You have a good day

a reply to: sapien82

yes yes its all a part of the grand plan , which he never told anyone about not even the angels !

What are you talking about? The plan is laid out bare.

maybe thats why lucifer got pissed because it was above his pay grade

Lucifer got pissed because his plan was rejected.

You confused me with those "types" I dont want to understand why god did anything because I dont believe in GOD .

You don't have to believe in something to want to understand it. I discuss things with atheists and agnostics because I want to understand their perspective on life and death. Not because I believe what they say.

Im basically saying that his design is pretty sub par at best ! even his creation will come to an end with entropy death

But you don't believe in god so how could his design be sub par? See, for believers, this is explained in genesis. But for you, it's just a weird comment. You want to say he's a bad designer and that he doesn't exist. It's just idiocy.

Speaking of entropy, how does evolution defy it?

how does that book make him the authority when there are countless books to countless gods claiming the same thing ?

I'm not sure I follow your point here. Are you saying there are countless books to countless gods so which book is right? Or are you saying there are countless books to countless gods that tell similar stories, so which one is right?

who is the right one ?

Islam, Judaism, and Christianity make up about 60% of the worlds religious peoples. They all believe in genesis to some degree or another. All of them believe in the fall. Which is the part that concerns your problems with our flawed nature.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: Akragon

While that dodge works for the first question, it skips the second. It's also simply a weasels way out of answering the uncomfortable truth of the matter. You want to say it's all hogwash, that's fine, but don't expect your beliefs to be taken seriously when you treat others with such disdain.

Uhm... theres no dodge

This isn't the religious section and this subject has nothing to do with the topic at hand

want to talk about this stuff take it to the correct forum... and i'd be happy to

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: puzzlesphere

You asked:

if god created all the things we see , why then did he design plants that alter our DNA and break his fantastic programming, why did he make the sun to sustain us but also to alter our DNA

I told you that answer is in genesis.

You know, I love how your types pretend you want to understand why god did this or that, but then, when pointed to the authority on the matter you resort to attacks along the lines of "well that's not real." Then why are you asking about it?

LOL bro. Stick to reactionary politics and alarmism, science and logic clearly is not your thing.

a reply to: Barcs

If you knew my profession you'd be laughing as hard as I am about that post. Good one!

a reply to: Akragon

I didn't start down this path. I simply pointed out the flaw in your assumption that job was a parable or allegory.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: Akragon

I didn't start down this path. I simply pointed out the flaw in your assumption that job was a parable or allegory.

Apparently you've never read the story... ye know, about the day "satan" had a little bet with God?

WHO would have possibly been able to get that story from God (or satan)

The question really is... how do you not see that is obviously meant to be allegorical?

Without the vocal cords routed this way we could not speak from the heart.

God really is a wonderful designer!

a reply to: Akragon

I never said it wasn't. I simply said it was debatable. We're proving that's true.

originally posted by: PerfectAnomoly
..
This is clearly not the most efficient route and clearly would not be “designed” this way…

Isaiah 45:9-12

Woe to the one who contends* [Or “argues.”] with his Maker,* [Or “with the One who formed him.”]

For he is just an earthenware fragment

Among the other earthenware fragments lying on the ground!

Should the clay say to the Potter:* [Or “the One who formed it.”] “What are you making?”

Or should your work say: “He has no hands”?* [Or possibly, “Or should the clay say: ‘Your work has no handles’?”; PerfectAnomoly: “This is clearly not the most efficient route and clearly would not be “designed” this way”]

10 Woe to the one who says to a father: “What do you become father to?”

And to a woman: “What are you giving birth to?”* [Or “What are you in birth pains with?”]

11 This is what Jehovah says, the Holy One of Israel, the One who formed him:

“Would you question me about the things coming

And command me about my sons and the works of my hands?

12 I made the earth and created man on it.

I stretched out the heavens with my own hands,

And I give orders to all their army.”

Purposeful Design or Mindless Process? 1 of 2

Coming back to the phrase “I stretched out the heavens with my own hands,” in verse 12:

Aristotle reasoned that the celestial spheres were rigid. The one holding the stars in place, like the others, could neither shrink nor expand.

Does the Bible offer a similar conjecture? No; it states nothing dogmatically on this point. However, note the interesting word picture that it presents: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell.”​—Isaiah 40:22. (It is remarkable that the Bible calls the earth a circle, or sphere, as the Hebrew word may also be translated. Aristotle and other Greeks of ancient times theorized that the earth is spherical, but this question was still debated millenniums later.)

Which proves more fitting today​—Aristotle’s model or the Bible’s imagery? How does modern cosmology view the universe? In the 20th century, astronomers were amazed to learn that the universe is anything but rigid. In fact, the galaxies appear to be moving rapidly away from one another. Few scientists, if any, had ever imagined such expansion of the universe. Today, cosmologists generally believe that the universe started out in a very compact state and has been expanding ever since. In effect, science has rendered Aristotle’s model obsolete.

What about the Bible’s words? It is not hard to imagine such a man as the prophet Isaiah looking at the starry sky draped elegantly overhead and finding that the image of a tent stretched out was remarkably apt.* He might even have noted the similarity between the Milky Way and the appearance of “fine gauze.” (*: This metaphor is used repeatedly in the Bible.​—Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 42:5; 44:24; 51:13; Zechariah 12:1.)

Isaiah’s words invite us to create mental pictures. We may imagine a tent of Bible times; perhaps we envision a relatively small bundle of sturdy fabric being opened, unfurled, and spread out before being raised up on poles and becoming a home. Similarly, we may imagine a merchant picking up a small bundle of fine gauze and stretching it out for a customer to inspect. In either case, something relatively compact is spread out and becomes larger to our eyes.

Of course, I am not saying that the Bible’s poetic imagery of a tent and fine gauze is meant to explain the expansion of the physical universe. Is it not fascinating, though, that the Bible offers a description of the universe that fits in so well with modern science? Isaiah lived more than three centuries before Aristotle’s day and thousands of years before science provided compelling evidence on this subject. Yet, the description penned by this humble Hebrew prophet does not need to be revised as does the ingenious model designed by Aristotle (a key historical figure in promoting and popularizing evolutionary philosophies, philosophical naturalism, pantheism and Mother Nature/Gaia-worship. Along with his teacher Plato, he has been called the "Father of Western Philosophy" or "the father of science").

The Pagan Religious Roots of Evolutionary Philosophies, Pantheism, Philosophical Naturalism and Mother Nature/Gaia-worship (part 1 of 2)

Quotations from Aristotle from part 2:

“Nature, gradually, step by step, developed from inanimate substances to living creatures.”

“. . . other bloodless animals generate indeed . . . but from decaying earth and excrements.” (Generation of Animals 1: 1: 20 - 25)

The Greek philosopher Anaximander (c. 610 BCE - c. 546 BCE):

“Animals come into being from moisture evaporated by the sun. Humans originally resembled another type of animal, namely fish.” (Hippolytus, Refutation of All Herecies, 1:6: 1 - 7)

“No informed mind today denies that man is descended by slow process from the world of the fish and the frog.”​ (Life magazine, August 26, 1966, Ardrey)

At one time, before Adam and Eves fall, everything was in harmony, but do to the sin, everything has Fell apart. We were not at one time, designed to die, but because of sin, we die. But with faith on Jesus Christ, that he died for mans sins, and save you from hell. One must have faith and believe on that and that he resurrected. Now, everything will kill you, because of sin, you work for a living, get sick, everything.a reply to: sapien82

originally posted by: zandra
a reply to: PerfectAnomoly
...unnatural evolution...

Did you mean that term as a figure of speech? Cause it didn't seem so from the context.

oxymoron:

a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction (e.g. faith unfaithful kept him falsely true ).

Etymology:

mid 17th century: from Greek oxumōron, neuter (used as a noun) of oxumōros ‘pointedly foolish’, from oxus ‘sharp’ + mōros ‘foolish’.

I wonder if there's a word or term for it when it's not used as a figure of speech other than "contradiction in terms":

a statement or group of words associating objects or ideas that are incompatible.
"“true fiction” is a contradiction in terms"

“unnatural evolution” is a contradiction in terms.

Most of that was from google, obviously not the last example.

(The forces of) Nature and chance are the 2 main causal factors involved in evolutionary storylines. Since that is what the word "evolution" or the verb "evolve" is used to refer to in this thread and subforum, one probably shouldn't try to switch to a definition of "evolution" that merely mentions "change over time"; or something like that, like "gradual change of things (over time)". In case someone feels like arguing that “unnatural evolution” is not a contradiction in terms by switching to such definitions instead.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

Yes the chihuahuas came from wolfs. Congratulations you may understand that basic concept. Unless? You think chihuahuas suddenly came into being by themselves by magic? Presto spaghetti, one day nature just decided to make a Chihuahua out of thin air.

You do understand and grasp the whole concept of something must exist for something else to exist. I am a sucker to believe that somewhere down the line the chihuahua was an offshoot of wolves and through human crossbreeding it became what it is today.

And yet you believe they came out of thin air just like that by magic. OK. There guy.

To tell the truth I dont know what your trying to say. If its about that video I posted on the whole Anunaki shenanigans. Well, implanting mixed embryos into wombs all the time, its how dolly the cloned sheep got cloned years ago, its how they grow parts now a days.

So ya, its not special nor is it hard to do, we do it today to various degrees with animals. You dont need any special vats and overly complicated systems to grow mixed embryos, you have plenty of those around naturally. There called females, so yes, even though I did not watch that whole video I linked myself.

Its far from impossibly to make a ape like worker if there is any truth to it that humans were made to be workers because the lesser gods complained to the higher gods that the work was to much.

As above and so bellow. That right there is called upper management issues.

And here I thought I dont read the nonsense you people go on about. You commented on a video I didnt really watch, with something that says you understood what they were talking bout even less then I bothered to read what you people say.

Monkey business indeed.

a reply to: Raggedyman

So basically you have absolutely nothing to say.

As I thought. Anyways, whatever religion you believe in. Do tell me, if you do not believe man evolved from apes.

What did they evolve from? Porcupines? Sloths? At least Scientologists have there clam theory.

But what do you believe mankind originated from? Or are you another one of those oh we came from thin air and god snapped his finger and well here we are.

You could have just said you have no clue what your talking about. Instead of wasting my five seconds.

Have a good day.

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: puzzlesphere

You asked:

if god created all the things we see , why then did he design plants that alter our DNA and break his fantastic programming, why did he make the sun to sustain us but also to alter our DNA

I told you that answer is in genesis.

You know, I love how your types pretend you want to understand why god did this or that, but then, when pointed to the authority on the matter you resort to attacks along the lines of "well that's not real." Then why are you asking about it?

LOL bro. Stick to reactionary politics and alarmism, science and logic clearly is not your thing.

There's always a stick to find when you want to beat a dog. So far science and logic.

a reply to: Dfairlite

AYe there are countless books to countless gods which all tell similar stories

Monotheism and its themes are all plundered from Pagan culture

So from pantheism to monotheism "who is right"

what makes gods (monotheism) any more real or believable than say the Mayan pantheon and their creation myth ?
or celtic pagan pantheon and their creation myth

also One monotheistic GOD , yet multiple denominations of christianity all with different rules and holy books

then islam, judaism etc , Who is right ?

yeh doesnt seem a little odd , that if there was one true god , he'd have been mentioned from the jump
rather than the pantheon of the gods that came before him , was GOD just on a break the whole time until monotheism came about ?
or was it only when we managed to mass produce writing and books to "spread the word " so to speak

seems that way !


I understood religion from when I was a wee guy so no need for me to bother trying to understand it further

a system of control , that is all !
anyway if god is real and he gives me a hard time for it when I die , he will forgive me he is Christian right ?

Also it seems that religions in general , gods in general are only inventions of mankind to give answer and reason to the things we couldn't explain with our limited consciousness and understanding of the natural world around us and the phenomenon that it produces at the time !

we only invented gods because we were a bit scared of the unknown !