What is a man? A response to Gillette

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Boadicea

I buy gilette razors not because of advertising but because the razor handle thing was on sale and I needed to shave. Not because of an ad.

Either way the initial response was blown away out of proportion to be honest.

Those multi bladed, expensive, razors only last a few shaves because the whiskers clog up in the blades.

I blow the whiskers out with an air compressor and they will last and last until the blades dull up.

what was the question?

a reply to: Boadicea

Crazy how simular the circumstances were.

Those mistakes are what we spoke of earlier. Knowing me at the time, I wasn't as ambitious and was just skating through life. That set me back and forced me to work harder to redeem myself, and it happened at the right age as that's what instilled my work ethic for my whole adult life.

It's only a mistake if you don't learn from it and make the best of it.

a reply to: Boadicea

Gillete should make an ad decrying toxic femininity.

Things like flirting with married men, gold digging, lieing to police about rape and/or domestic abuse, lieing to courts to get custody of children, using sex in the workplace to get favor and promotions.

Sitting around a filthy house getting obese eating bon bons on the couch while the kids trash the house and cus the neighbors with bad grammar, while the husband goes to work.

Where is that ad?

a reply to: Bluntone22

Feminism has definitely contributed in some ways to the current battles in the war between the sexes. But so have men contributed. Feminism has also made great strides for women as well, especially in terms of very unfair and unjust laws written by men. But strides which could not have been possible without men as well.

Everyone can be part of the problem, everyone can be part of the solution.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Oh, hahahaha. I LOL'd on the airplane.

Wait, you were being serious, weren't you?

Shhhhh!!!!!

I still need hubby to take care of the scorpions for me...

a reply to: Boadicea

And I'm quite disgusted that you would exploit the murders of so many women for some cheap points that I don't even know what... but sadly not surprised.

And, I'm not surprised that you're exploiting the victimhood of men who suffer from toxic masculinity, offering an easy attack on feminism. It seems the stats for the murder of women don't meet your bar when it comes to authoring OPs criticizing Gillette for their campaign against toxic masculinity and of inclusion.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

It seems to me, the older I get and the more I see, that facing our mistakes is the only way to find our true mettle. That's where we learn what we're made of. When we tell ourselves, "No excuses," and demand better of ourselves, I've come to think of it as our greatest possible "win" in life. Because in a sense we "compete" with ourselves and when we "beat" our old selves for the new and improved self, that's the absolute best win of all.

And if we can take on ourselves, we can take on anyone and anything!

(But we also hopefully learn to choose our battles carefully.)

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Boadicea

Gillete should make an ad decrying toxic femininity.

I actually made that point in the original thread about the Gillette ad... and I was the first to make it.

Things like flirting with married men...

Okay... I confess... I do flirt with my husband. Is that okay?

...gold digging, lieing to police about rape and/or domestic abuse, lieing to courts to get custody of children, using sex in the workplace to get favor and promotions.

Sitting around a filthy house getting obese eating bon bons on the couch while the kids trash the house and cus the neighbors with bad grammar, while the husband goes to work.

None of that is me though. None of that is any of the women I know and love. Do you think that describes most women?

Where is that ad?

I don't know... obviously... maybe talk to Gillette about that.

But what's your greater point? Do you think the toxic masculinity ad was a good thing, and that a toxic femininity ad would be a good thing for the same reasons? Do you think an "awesome masculinity" ad and/or an "awesome femininity" ad would be good? Bad? Or do you think the toxic masculinity ad was a bad thing, but a toxic femininity ad would be a good thing? Or do you just want to play whataboutism? Or, worse, just want to bash women?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

And, I'm not surprised that you're exploiting the victimhood of men who suffer from toxic masculinity, offering an easy attack on feminism. It seems the stats for the murder of women don't meet your bar when it comes to authoring OPs criticizing Gillette for their campaign against toxic masculinity and of inclusion.

That doesn't even make any sense... especially in context of not just the OP, but pretty much every comment I've made thus far. All I get from your comment is that you have a label and/or stereotype for everyone. And I don't play that game.

Promoting the best interests of men takes nothing away from women or feminism. Nor does it excuse toxic anything.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Boadicea

Gillete should make an ad decrying toxic femininity.

I actually made that point in the original thread about the Gillette ad... and I was the first to make it.

Things like flirting with married men...

Okay... I confess... I do flirt with my husband. Is that okay?

...gold digging, lieing to police about rape and/or domestic abuse, lieing to courts to get custody of children, using sex in the workplace to get favor and promotions.

Sitting around a filthy house getting obese eating bon bons on the couch while the kids trash the house and cus the neighbors with bad grammar, while the husband goes to work.

None of that is me though. None of that is any of the women I know and love. Do you think that describes most women?

Where is that ad?

I don't know... obviously... maybe talk to Gillette about that.

But what's your greater point? Do you think the toxic masculinity ad was a good thing, and that a toxic femininity ad would be a good thing for the same reasons? Do you think an "awesome masculinity" ad and/or an "awesome femininity" ad would be good? Bad? Or do you think the toxic masculinity ad was a bad thing, but a toxic femininity ad would be a good thing? Or do you just want to play whataboutism? Or, worse, just want to bash women?

Do you think the original ad depicts most men? Is it implied in that ad that all men are toxic? Is it implied that normal behavior is toxic? I think it does.

I think they did a poor job of making their point. Boys will be boys, boys will be boys, boys will be boys. Yea what is wrong with that? It’s not even pointing out bad behavior. It’s pointing at normal behavior and saying that it is toxic masculinity. Everybody wrestles as a kid. It’s good for their developement and they learn the limits of the body and personal boundaries. That is not limited to only men.

Men flirt with women, women flirt with men. When is either one of these things toxic? Much less solely in the realm of masculinity?

But when i point out bad behavior from women, you say, “i don’t know anyone who acts like that” (i assume you have a highpitched nasally voice) but these things happen right?

I know there are bad men out there, but nothing depicted in that ad was toxic, much less strictly masculine in nature. Listen to the ad. The first word is bullying. The second is the #metoo movement. The third word is masculinity. Not toxic masculinity. Just masculinity. Is masculinity bad?

Watch that video again. What is strictly masculine about any of the things depicted? Two boys wrestling? They weren’t punching eachother, they look like they are playing.

A group of boys chasing another boy? When does that ever happen? A group of boys ganging up on another boy? Do girls never do this?

Sexual harassment? Is that strictly a guy thing? Do girls never do that?

Is nothing a girl does worth mentioning? Gillette doesn’t think so.

It seems they could have made these human problems, and not gender specific.

a reply to: Woodcarver

But when i point out bad behavior from women, you say, “i don’t know anyone who acts like that” (i assume you have a highpitched nasally voice) but these things happen right?

Really? I gave you an opportunity to explain and expand upon your thoughts, and this is where you go? Okay, but that's where you pretty much lost any respect from me. I'm on your side, and you're so stuck in your pity party that you can't even see that.

At no time did I blame all men for everything, I did in fact criticize the Gillette ad, and I did in fact give men credit where credit is due. I also did not give women a free pass on anything, I did say I'd like to see a similar toxic femininity ad, and I did in fact say that women have their faults and weaknesses as well as men.

If you want to believe that all women are just vile and evil creatures, you can... just like women can believe that all men are just vile and evil creatures. And you all can come up with plenty of examples of men and women acting like vile and evil creatures. And all it means is that some men and women are vile and evil creatures.

Our words will stand on their own merit.

a reply to: Boadicea

I think the lesson we should learn is that men and women are meant to be complements, not equals. Let me explain what I mean by that.

When I say "equals" I am talking in the sense of interchangeable parts - one as good as the other and indistinguishable. Clearly, that's not true. We know men and women are different. They each have their different strengths and weaknesses, biologically and mentally through that biology. And together, as a partnership, they make one mean-@ss whole.

We need to stop as a society comparing and contrasting men and women and playing those strengths and weaknesses off each other as "good" and "bad", "superior" and "inferior". Instead, we need to see them for what they are -- the edges of two puzzles pieces that are meant to fit together like the yin yang fits together.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Woodcarver

But when i point out bad behavior from women, you say, “i don’t know anyone who acts like that” (i assume you have a highpitched nasally voice) but these things happen right?

Really? I gave you an opportunity to explain and expand upon your thoughts, and this is where you go? Okay, but that's where you pretty much lost any respect from me. I'm on your side, and you're so stuck in your pity party that you can't even see that.

At no time did I blame all men for everything, I did in fact criticize the Gillette ad, and I did in fact give men credit where credit is due. I also did not give women a free pass on anything, I did say I'd like to see a similar toxic femininity ad, and I did in fact say that women have their faults and weaknesses as well as men.

If you want to believe that all women are just vile and evil creatures, you can... just like women can believe that all men are just vile and evil creatures. And you all can come up with plenty of examples of men and women acting like vile and evil creatures. And all it means is that some men and women are vile and evil creatures.

Our words will stand on their own merit.

I guess i was right about the highpitched nasally voice?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

I think the lesson we should learn is that men and women are meant to be complements, not equals. Let me explain what I mean by that.

I agree completely... but it's not the whole truth. And I think as a whole the discussion puts far too much emphasis on the what the meaning of "equal" is in the most ridiculous and extreme ways. It's in everyone's best interests for authorities (and individuals) to demand equal application of the law and equal rights under the law. But, obviously, men and women have differences, so "equal" rights may not be manifested in the same ways.

Yes, sometimes people take the principle to the extreme -- both women and men. There's always someone who will. That just means the rest of us have to be that much more reasonable and practical and figure out ways to respect and protect everyone's rights and best interests... sometimes it won't look exactly the same. But it's not rocket science. We can do it.

When I say "equals" I am talking in the sense of interchangeable parts - one as good as the other and indistinguishable. Clearly, that's not true. We know men and women are different. They each have their different strengths and weaknesses, biologically and mentally through that biology. And together, as a partnership, they make one mean-@ss whole.

We need to stop as a society comparing and contrasting men and women and playing those strengths and weaknesses off each other as "good" and "bad", "superior" and "inferior". Instead, we need to see them for what they are -- the edges of two puzzles pieces that are meant to fit together like the yin yang fits together.

Again, I agree, but in the process we need to understand that in the big picture, our sexual and reproductive differences are just one piece of that puzzle. There is so very much more to life. Women's childbearing years specifically are numbered. And children grow up. And for a marriage to be strong and thrive through all phases, we cannot limit ourselves to our inherent masculinity and femininity.

In fact, I would say that in the best and strongest marriages, both husband and wives/fathers and mothers, have to take on the other's stereotypical gender roles at times, to one extent or another. When my husband had to work out of town sometimes for weeks, I held down the fort... when I was hospitalized or otherwise absent, my husband kept the homefire burning.

Perhaps more important, so many of the qualities and strengths that keep marriages together are just good old fashioned values that work for everyone in every union and relationship. Trustworthiness, loyalty, helpfulness, etc.

We can also be whole and complete all by our lonesomes. Some men and women aren't destined to be partners... much less parents. That's okay too. It wasn't what I wanted. I'm very happy for my family. But I know if I ever find myself single again, I will stay that way. I've done the married thing. I'll give the single thing a try next!

I thought gender was defined scientifically through DNA and chromosomes?

Oh science doesn't matter, what ever you identify with.

Overweight and unhealthy, its ok... ignore science and health the libs say... no more fat shaming.
Fat and proud.

Liberals have literally walked away from scientific facts

originally posted by: Bloodworth
I thought gender was defined scientifically through DNA and chromosomes?

Oh science doesn't matter, what ever you identify with.

Overweight and unhealthy, its ok... ignore science and health the libs say... no more fat shaming.
Fat and proud.

Liberals have literally walked away from scientific facts

I take issue with gravity. I just disregard gravity altogether

The purpose of advertising.
Get as much attention as possible for as little cost to sell as much product as possible for max profits.

I mean how long ago was this #, we've had a tranny shaving ad since then. And lookie, people are still talking about it.

You cannot buy the kind of publicity it got them. Hence the tranny follow up.

They got and are still getting exactly the response they wanted.

Even if it cost them sales let's do some hypothetical math.

Say before the AD Gillette made 20billion dollars a year and spent 5 billion on advertising.
After the AD they lost 2 billion from loss of sales by triggered manly men who took the bait. BUT they only paid 1 million dollars for advertising that year, because they got like 10billion in free exposure across all media from Facebook through to Public TV and everything inbetween.

So instead of 15billion they ended up making 18billion. They actually made more.

(Sega did similar thing with their Dreamcast against the PS and Xbox. They sold less consoles than Sony and Microsoft, but made more profit due to lower advertising spending, just they didn't have to get under your skin to do it lol)

So yes, think of a snappy retort long after the moment has gone.
No matter how you put it Gillette won.

Seriously you think they care what you, I or anyone else thinks?

No. They care what their bank account says.

I am not trying to be a dick, this is just reality of life. And companies are like politicians. They both get off on impotent rage on the interwebz.

The more impotent rage they see the happier they will be.

I am sure Gillette is reading your post on ATS right now and as a result are preparing a retraction and public apology to all men as we speak......

Now excuse me I just thought of a burn to something my friend said 6 years ago..... never too late amiright?


You think GIllette. A company. Not a living thing. A thing ran by humans gives a damn about homosexuals, trans and whatever the next flavor of the month is?
If you do all I can say is bwahahahahaha.




But seriously if you want crap like this to stop. Make them understand, don't try appealing to Gillette directly, appeal to the authorities who regulate, fine and tax them.
Put your life's time and energy where it counts.

If Gillette thought for a second that AD was a bad idea and it hurt their business and cared what any straight male thought and that it hurt your feels. That trans ad would not of seen the light of day.

originally posted by: AnakinWayneII
the maximum number of people as possible. Who was the ad for? Like 9 "trans males" on the whole planet? Bizarre.

I responded to the reasoning of that Ad on the other thread here with a good rationale behind it. kind of a bit more expanded version of what I wrote above.

Gillette, the best a trans can get!

That Ad was not for 9 'trans males', it was also for the billions of snowflakes who jump onto anything that seems to care about minorities.

This is just a general comment, but I should be amazed people are missing exactly what is really going on here with this nonsense as with most of the stuff we see posted and discussed daily, when it seems so obvious.

Sadly I am not surprised. Like companies like Gillette. I expect it.

It's probably that people are so knee jerk and don't think before reacting these days it's easy to do.
Makes for easy prey when you can see the 'programming' most abide by.

Remember to like, subscribe and share my post. Because that is what those magically repeated everywhere words tell you to do.
And click the bell icon to get notifications of my future posts here on ATS.
(We're being manipulated every where daily. Well most of us are, some can see it and block it out.)

God I wish I could use my knowledge of human behaviour to exploit people. But alas I do have morals.
Be so so easy if I didn't. I'd be so so rich.

originally posted by: AtomicKangaroo
The purpose of advertising.
Get as much attention as possible for as little cost to sell as much product as possible for max profits.

Your point is well taken... and definitely bears some truth, but perhaps not the whole truth.

I mean how long ago was this #, we've had a tranny shaving ad since then. And lookie, people are still talking about it.

You cannot buy the kind of publicity it got them. Hence the tranny follow up.

Exactly. And unless you've been living under a rock, you are well aware of the Trans Agenda; i.e., the very specific socio-political goals being demanded under the guise of trans "rights." You may or may not be aware that Procter & Gamble, the parent company of Gillette, is also a signed endorser of The Equality Act introduced by Pelosi earlier this session. So to simply dismiss it all as "der profit" is a bit naive (or ignorant) at this point. There is obviously more to it than just profit.

So yes, think of a snappy retort long after the moment has gone.

Except the video I posted and commented on was far from a "snappy retort." Is it fair to assume then that you didn't watch the video? Did you even read the OP?

More important, while TV ads come and go, men will stay, and the socio-political issues addressed here will stay. The purpose of the OP was to expand on these socio-political issues men face, not to think of a "snappy retort" to one woke ad. While Gillette was quite happy to exploit and extort the population for its own purposes, the issues are very real to too many men, and deserve more and better attention and solutions.

No matter how you put it Gillette won.

Really? What'd they win? The Wokest of the Woke Award? From all appearances, they may have broke even with their ad in terms of gains and losses, but it doesn't seem to have increased sales (nor profits). I don't see any win here.

Seriously you think they care what you, I or anyone else thinks?

Um... seriously... aren't you contradicting yourself now? Isn't that what advertising is all about??? Influencing opinions and therefore purchasing decisions??? Isn't that how they supposedly "won"?

No. They care what their bank account says.

Yup... hence they care very much what people think because that influences what they buy... are you even thinking this through???

I am not trying to be a dick...

I'll reserve judgment.

...this is just reality of life. And companies are like politicians. They both get off on impotent rage on the interwebz.

The more impotent rage they see the happier they will be.

So do they care or not care? I'm soooooooooooooooo confused!

I am sure Gillette is reading your post on ATS right now and as a result are preparing a retraction and public apology to all men as we speak......

I can only assume that you are referring to my "post on ATS" since you didn't bother to properly "reply", and while you might be "sure," that thought never even entered my mind!!! Please don't project. You are the one who can't get past the Gillette commercial. This OP goes far beyond anything in the Gillette commercial.

Now excuse me I just thought of a burn to something my friend said 6 years ago..... never too late amiright?

You think GIllette. A company. Not a living thing. A thing ran by humans gives a damn about homosexuals, trans and whatever the next flavor of the month is?
If you do all I can say is bwahahahahaha.

Not trying to be a dick, eh? So it just comes naturally to you???



But seriously if you want crap like this to stop. Make them understand, don't try appealing to Gillette directly, appeal to the authorities who regulate, fine and tax them.
Put your life's time and energy where it counts.

If Gillette thought for a second that AD was a bad idea and it hurt their business and cared what any straight male thought and that it hurt your feels. That trans ad would not of seen the light of day.

After the Gillette "Toxic Masculinity" ad, I kept an eye out for a good response to that ad. I didn't like the Gillette ad. I thought it was trite and superficial.

Commercials are usually trite and superficial. Are people going to create a thread about every commercial that is trite and superficial?

For example, catcalling is nothing compared to date rape. A couple little boys roughhousing is nothing compared to three big boys beating the crap out of one little boy. And so on. The examples provided in the Gillette ad were rather trite, and more annoyances than offensive.

Catcalling is sexual harassment. Obviously it's not the same as date rape, but sexual harrasment has a negative emotional impact on the person getting harassed.

I have 5 sisters who work for the fashion industry. You have no idea how many times I've had to go out with them just to keep guys from hitting on them, or catcalling them, or being downright aggressive.

And I'm talking about the times I took them to the dentist. Nightclubs? nah, after a few nights out acting as my sisters chaperone(on their request) I just told them to invite their friends to our parents home so that they could party in peace, without guys thinking they were entitled to my sisters attention or time.

It doesn't stop at catcalling. Staring at someone is sexual harrasement. Leering, the same.

I suppose what passes for average women in America these days still get catcalled - but attractive women?

Yes, being catcalled, being catcalled, being continuously approached without having sent even one IOI, dozens of times a day. When they're dressed down as to not get unwanted attention?

That's part of toxic masculinity culture, yes, and it permeates Western Society. Porn, stripclubs, legalized prostitution(it's rampant in Europe) gold-diggers, and all that. It promotes sexism and the objectification of women.

just as there are women who behave badly... but by and large, the vast majority of us try to be good people, responsible people, people of honor and integrity and good will.

You sure about that? I've lived in Sharia law Countries due to my line of work. You sure that men are for the most part, ''good, kind, loveable people?

Thousands of women in India are raped and killed every year. The entirety of the African women(except white women in South Africa) are subject to the whims of the men they are surrounded by. Muslim women by large and large have no rights. It doesn't even matter if she's from a rich family, as I've experienced personally. She's just her dad's property to be sold accordingly to how much money her suitors have.

Did you know that up until Feminism there was no such thing as marital rape in the western nations? Men could just up and stick it inside and the woman couldn't claim to have been raped.

Women were sold by their fathers in the west for the longest time.

So no, the majority of men aren't good people.

Men don't have perfect lives. Men don't live in a bubble of bliss. Men have to deal with much of the same crap as women in this world we share -- in fact, perhaps more.

Nah. Men have it made. In the Muslim world, women are pretty much just there to serve as incubators and sex dolls, and that's talking about Middle-Class Muslim men. The rich guys have harems and can do anything they want.

White men are the most privileged beings on this earth of ours, but even then I am far more privileged as (same skin color and ethnicity of Antonio Banderas) a man, with my superior physical strength at 180lbs 10% body fat, without ever been inside a gym or doing any physical exercise, than any woman alive. Then there's my endurance, stamnina, the fact that I don't have periods, that I can just ejaculate inside a woman get her pregnant and then get out of her life and have her end up stuck with a kid I'm not going to pay child-support for.

Women are far more physically vulnerable than even teenager boys. Who suffers the majority of sex crimes outside of prison? Who gets the most murdered? Women. Most of the time by their husbands or boyfriends or even sons.

My life is grand. I don't get pregnant, I am not at risk of being violated or sexually molested, and even when I do get approached by women I reject but continue to be pushy about it, I am never afraid of what she might do to me. Because I'm infinitely stronger than she is(and the average woman here is 5'7'' at 110lbs, making me even stronger) it's not like she's going to beat me up.

--Men account for 93% of workplace fatalities

That's because they're dumb. Why are they working construction or on oil rigs? Go to school, get a degree in something soft like Archeology like I did, and then enjoy those summer months working in excavations where the only guy there is you and you're surrounded by 18-25 year old very attractive women who haven't slept with a man in months.

--Men account for 97% war fatalities

Gee, I'm not sure about this, but the reason why men account for 97% war fatalities is because ALL wars are started by men because of Man's greed and envy?

--Men account for 79% all homicide victims

And who kills men? Yeah. Exactly. Not even men like men LOL

--Men account for 80% suicide victims

That's because of toxic masculinity. Men have this ideal that they have to fulfill in order to feel like they're men. At my age my father already had 2 kids, had his own house a few years back, was building 2 businesses and was going to college at the same time.

Me? I work in a nightclub as a bartender. I'm not married. I don't have kids. In fact I got a vasectomy as soon as I was medically allowed to get it. I don't have a steady girlfriend. I like party girls, and for some reason that still escapes me 10 years after I've abandoned the United States of Obesity for the Canary Islands, they like me back.

I don't have a car. I don't even have a drivers license. I don't have my own house. I live with roomates and I plan on doing that until my dying day, hopefully 60 years from now.

I look 10 years younger than my age. I have the same physical level of fitness I had as a cross country runner, basketball player and soccer player, back when I was in high school. My hairline is perfect. All of this is only possible because I rejected toxic masculinity and how it tried to make me a ''man'' according to the disgusting ideals of masculinity this ultra toxic civilization of us imposes on men.

The problem with the world is that it has way too many men. And most of them are obese, bald, short, ugly, dumb, and many of them feel entitled to women and to sex, especially to sex with young, attractive women.

The solution?

More male fetuses need to be aborted, and the world's male population needs to be lowered massively. Replace the majority of the male population with men who look like Sean O'Pry, Brad Pitt and Charlton Herson and I guarantee you that the world will be much safer for every woman.