Is Iran Strong Enough to Go to War with the U.S.?

a reply to: Strate8

I don't play Call Of Duty. Nice cheap shot though. I give you credit for that.

In WWI and WWII there were tons of civilian casualties. I am not debating or denying that.

The middle east is different. Germans didn't wire 6-year-olds with explosives and send them into US camps to blow themselves up. Germany wasn't waging guerilla-style warfare hiding behind hospitals and elementary schools.

You know as well as I do if you want to kill your enemy you have to take the war to them, wherever they are. It is sad and unfortunate that scum like this use children as human shields. At some point, it becomes necessary to accept collateral damage. Of course, the goal is to keep it minimized, and that does not make it easier. But it is still necessary.

But it is important to remember that these people were following orders. That doesn't mean they have no feelings about it. But it means they have the knowledge that it was their duty, not their desire. Some times it is necessary to kill in the line of duty. Some people are more traumatized by it than others. But I am not saying, nor will I say, that none of them feel it or wish it could have been different. No one wants war. Well, no one sane anyway. But when it becomes necessary you fight to win. Anything less means a longer more drawn out conflict with more casualties, civilian included.

I appreciate your service. And I am sorry it still haunts you. Take comfort in the fact that you did your duty, and served your country with honor.

Respect.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Yes, true it was a cheap shot I took on Call of Duty.

Buried in the cheap shot there is truth. Call of Duty and games like it are intended to dehumanize the enemy and instill the mentality to kill quickly without much thought. I took to that conditioning in the military knowing full well what I was being conditioned to do. And I embraced it at the time because there was war and it is survival.

What stayed with me a very long time was the WM (female Marine) we gave CPR to who was crushed and killed by the truck she was driving when it overturned. That was just during training on base in our "safe space". That was something none of us were conditioned for and we did what was hopeless because we felt helpless. My friend stomped a Somali kid to the ground while on patrol, that affected him for a while. Another had constant nightmares about the surrendering Iraqi he killed with a 50cal as the guy opened the hatch and stuck a white flag out.

On the ground, it's personal, you see the aftermath of every decision you make. I am very uncomfortable with anyone thanking me for my service as are many of those that served.
I appreciate the sentiment, but I made decisons I'm proud of and some I'm not, I'm better than some and worse than others and share in common with them that we all did things most of civilized society would not.

Yes, there is time for war. It sure as heck better be justified and all other options tried as hard as they can before that call comes in.

We have been in a state of war for a long time now but it has not hit home. If our government keeps going down this path, it will hit home eventually and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Last bit:
www.fort-russ.com...

Speaking nothing of capability, they are voicing their intent. Same thing as I have stated previously that they will do if we attack them.

originally posted by: GD
a reply to: yuppa

There is some truth there, for sure. There has never been a separate Palestinian nation. It's always been a part of Israel, the Roman Empire or even the Ottoman Empire. BUT, as FredT stated. State on state violence leads to a slippery slope.

Judea was there before it was renamed Palestinia, the original Palestinian people were destroyed to the last man woman and child before the hebrews/jews created israel and judea. These modern one are pretenders to the throne.

originally posted by: GD
a reply to: Zaphod58

One would hope that even though this was buried and classified, something was learned form it. We have more experience with asymmetric warfare now, and more emphasis is being placed on small boat swarm attacks. 5 years from now, the Navy could deploy their new toys- surface and subsurface drones. Now, we have to hope that everyone is on their toes when this kicks off.

That was Millenium Challenge 2002 and of course Murrica had to win by hook or by crook.
en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: CanadianMason

Iran is strong enough to go to war with the US , they are ranked 14th of the 137 countries ranked in the Global Firepower review.
www.globalfirepower.com...

JOINT exercises with Iran, Russia & China

What matters most is not Iran's strength, what matters most is their powerful allies, RUSSIA & China mean business& they will wipe the United States off the face of the of the Earth if Iran is attacked

USA also thought it could crush NORTH Vietnam, BUT 58,000 body bags later learned they underestimated the Vietnamese. Iran is no push-over

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a reply to: RIPMH370
Seems too simple to "realize" we could all be allies one day.

Once the bad apples are plucked, we then can venture away from the planet as a unit of good measure?

Who doesn't dream?

originally posted by: loveguy
a reply to: RIPMH370
Seems too simple to "realize" we could all be allies one day.

Once the bad apples are plucked, we then can venture away from the planet as a unit of good measure?

Who doesn't dream?

Precisely ,that is how pointless this lust for war is Currently in AMERICA irresponsible people in CONGRESS & IN THE White House are talking up hatred for the chinese, or for Iran. There is a choice for both sides to either calm down rethoric, or start shooting. USA needs to understand China has everything on the line &wont back away if pushed.
Attacking IRAN AMOUNTS TO AN OIL EMBARGO against China & therefore a direct threat to their national security

originally posted by: Jesushere
No offensive but most people on here are delusional and watch too many movies and tv news.
Its laughable that some of you think Iran military will be taken out in hours or days. I think the Americans public needs a reality check.

How about a bit of naval history...
/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis
en.wikipedia.org...

Operation Praying Mantis was an attack on 18 April 1988, by U.S. forces within Iranian territorial waters in retaliation for the Iranian mining of the Persian Gulf during the Iran–Iraq War and the subsequent damage to an American warship.

On 18 April, the U.S. Navy attacked with several groups of surface warships, plus aircraft from the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise, and her cruiser escort, USS Truxtun. The action began with coordinated strikes by two surface groups.

One Surface Action Group, or SAG, consisting of the destroyers USS Merrill (including embarked LAMPS MK I Helicopter Detachment HSL-35 Det 1) and USS Lynde McCormick, the LAMPS (Light Airborne MultiPurpose System) Helicopter Detachment from USS Samuel B. Roberts, was ordered to destroy the guns and other military facilities on the Sassan oil platform.

The Marines planted explosives, left the platform, and detonated them. The SAG was then ordered to proceed north to the Rakhsh oil platform to destroy it.
As the SAG departed the Sassan oil field, two Iranian F-4s made an attack run, but broke off when Lynde McCormick locked its fire control radar on the aircraft. The other group, which included guided missile cruiser USS Wainwright and frigates USS Simpson and USS Bagley , attacked the Sirri oil platform

Iran responded by dispatching Boghammar speedboats to attack various targets in the Persian Gulf. All of these vessels were damaged in different degrees. After the attacks, A-6E Intruder aircraft launched from USS Enterprise, were directed to the speedboats by an American frigate. The two VA-95, aircraft dropped Rockeye cluster bombs on the speedboats

Iranian fast attack craft Joshan, challenged USS Wainwright and Surface Action Group Charlie. Joshan responded by firing a Harpoon missile. The missile was successfully lured away by chaff.[8] USS Simpson responded to the challenge by firing four Standard missiles, while Wainwright followed with one Standard missile.[9] All missiles hit and destroyed the Iranian ship's superstructure but did not immediately sink it, so Bagley fired a Harpoon of its own. The missile did not find the target. SAG Charlie closed firing guns to sink the crippled Iranian ship.[7]

Two Iranian F-4 Phantom fighters were orbiting when Wainwright decided to drive them away. Wainwright fired two Extended Range Standard missiles, one of which detonated near an F-4, blowing off part of its wing and peppering the fuselage with shrapnel.

Iranian frigate Sahand departed Bandar Abbas and challenged elements of an American surface group. The frigate was spotted by two A-6Es from VA-95 while they were flying surface combat air patrol for USS Joseph Strauss. Sahand fired missiles at the A-6Es, which replied with two Harpoon missiles and four laser-guided Skipper missiles. Joseph Strauss fired a Harpoon. Most, if not all of the shots scored hits, causing heavy damage and fires. Fires blazing on Sahand's decks eventually reached her munitions magazines, causing an explosion that sank her.

Late in the day, the Iranian frigate Sabalan departed from its berth and fired a surface-to-air missile at several A-6Es from VA-95. The A-6Es then dropped a Mark 82 laser-guided bomb into Sabalan's stack, crippling the ship and leaving it burning.

In retaliation for the attacks, Iran fired Silkworm missiles (suspected to be the HY-4 version) from land bases against SAG Delta in the Strait of Hormuz and against USS Gary in the northern central Persian Gulf, but all missed due to the evasive maneuvers and use of decoys by the ships. A missile was probably shot down by Gary's 76 mm (3.0 in) gun. The Pentagon and the Reagan Administration later denied that any Silkworm missile attacks took place, possibly in order to keep the situation from escalating further - as they had promised publicly that any such attacks would merit retaliation against targets on Iranian soil.

edit on 1-1-2020 by FlyingFox because: freedom