Measles, Back in the Days Before the Marketing of the Vaccine

a reply to: Boadicea

The circumstances are not the same today. Better medicine, better nutrition, better general health, better sanitation practices... many things have led to greater life expectancies, including for measles prognoses.

Why do you say that? What is the treatment for the measles virus? Antibiotics?

Come to think of it, has there been a reduction in the mortality rate? Do you have a source? But, of course, death is the only possible undesirable outcome.

a reply to: Phage

My comment:

The circumstances are not the same today. Better medicine, better nutrition, better general health, better sanitation practices... many things have led to greater life expectancies, including for measles prognoses.

Your response:

Why do you say that? What is the treatment for the measles virus? Antibiotics?

I listed the recommended treatment in the OP -- rest, lots of fluids, non-aspirin fever reducer. For the most part, barring complications, measles simply runs its course.

In un- and under-developed nations, the WHO recommends mega doses of 200,000 to 400,000 IUs Vitamin A for infants and children, which has reduced some complications -- such as pneumonia and vision loss -- by up to 80%.

Antibiotics would be used if certain complications developed, including/especially bacterial infections such as pneumonia.

Come to think of it, has there been a reduction in the mortality rate? Do you have a source?

According to Wikipedia:

In developed countries, death occurs in 1 to 2 cases out of every 1,000 (0.1% - 0.2%). Death from measles was reported in approximately 0.2% of the cases in the United States from 1985 through 1992. In populations with high levels of malnutrition and a lack of adequate healthcare, mortality can be as high as 10%.

So, generally speaking, there is obviously a tremendous "reduction" in the mortality rate in developed nations overall, and a lesser reduction in undeveloped nations due to malnutrition and lack of adequate healthcare.
And, today specifically, we are currently at 1,044 reported measles cases in 2019 with zero reported deaths. Pretty awesome, eh?

But, of course, death is the only possible undesirable outcome.

Of course not. I've already spoken to complications, such as pneumonia and vision impairment. Encephalitis is another known complication, thankfully one of the less common.

Thankfully, for the vast majority of measles patients in the USA and other developed nations, these complications are the exception, NOT the rule. And that's a good thing.

a reply to: Boadicea

I caught everything as a kid, Measles ,mumps ,chicken pox etc so did all the kids who had shots at school which i refused and even head butted a male nurse for trying to give me a shot in the arm age 11 .

I notice the same with the flu jab , people who have the flu jab get the flu and i avoid

People who have jabs seem to break down a lot in older age

a reply to: stonerwilliam

cool story dude - shame its just your fantasy

a reply to: Boadicea

Boadicea

The Brady Bunch and the Donna Reed Show both illustrate exactly how [back 40 years or so ago] the dilemma of getting the measles was not viewed by the doctors OR the public as a frightening (almost) death sentence.

And while measles does remain a bothersome experience; the disease hardly warrants the current FEAR and demands to PUS everyone with measles microbes to supposedly protect ‘the herd’.

BTW… the Reefer Madness movie illustrates an outrageously and deceitful influence… but funny to view today.

originally posted by: GeauxHomeYoureDrunk
a reply to: Boadicea

Back when my kids were young even though they both had all scheduled rounds and boosters of the measles vaccine they still both caught the measles.

GeauxHomeYoureDrunk

The vaccinations obviously did not work for your kids -- as they contracted the measles and were not protected against the disease.

Worse yet, in some cases, the vaccinations actually CAUSE the diseases for which they are supposed to provide protection against.

Sigh

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: CupcakeKarma

that answer demonstrates that you are an idiot

ignorant_ape

Really? You resort to the fallacious argumentative strategy of Ad hominem name-calling to support your position?

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Boadicea

it was both nessecary and appropriate - and the politest response i could muster

even by the already intullectualy vacant standards of anti vaxx loons " injections of pus " is a new low in retarded dribbling

ignorant_ape,

I do not believe that name-calling is EVER necessary, appropriate or polite, even when one is 4 years old.

Also, “nessecary” is actually spelled necessary and “intullectualy” is actually spelled intellectually.

FURTHER, you have compared my “injections of pus” to a new low in retarded dribbling.

Is that because you do not believe that vaccinations are comprised of live or dead disease microbes?

Or is it because you do not believe that PUS can be comprised of disease microbes?

And wasn’t the word “retarded” put on the forbidden list, such as the N word and other such verbal displays of vulgar attacks and abuse?

a reply to: Boadicea

When I was young my mother had us to hang put with other kids just to GET the measles and to get them over with. A few itchy scabs and that was it. It was over. All this fear mongering today, just so people will inject poisons into their bodies by the Government, not even knowing what's in them, all while defending the Government (the very ones who screw us and lie to us on a daily basis) is dangerous. The Government kills people every day randomly in other countries and clandestinely do it to us. This is a culling campaign to thin out the herd essentially, so that the elites and their children will inherit the earth. I will be the first to break it to them...it isn't going down like that. They will inherit NOTHING!

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician
a reply to: Boadicea

This is a culling campaign to thin out the herd essentially, so that the elites and their children will inherit the earth. I will be the first to break it to them...it isn't going down like that. They will inherit NOTHING!

I've thought about this quite a bit. And I think you're right for many reasons. But one that keeps standing out for me is that in the final analysis, natural genuine immunity -- which is only possible by contracting measles and running its course -- will always be superior to synthetic immunity -- which is temporary and conditional.

Never mind that no one has the right to deny us our God-given gift of natural and genuine immunity... When push comes to shove and the survival of the fittest, it won't be those with propped up immune systems winning the day.

Using the Brady Bunch as a reference to show measles is harmless is the same as using Hogan's Heroes to show what a laugh it was being a prisoner of war in WWII.

And I don't understand this concept of "natural immunity" being better than "synthetic" immunity.
That means you have to get the disease right?
The disease that vaccines protect against?

What also hasn't been mentioned (or deliberately omitted) is that if you contract measles, you put yourself at great risk of developing what's called "Immune Amnesia".
Essentially this resets your immune system leaving you susceptible to contracting other diseases that previously you had built up immunity to.
Immunity Amnesia

More studies have been performed on this phenomenon of measles
Immune Amnesia Studies

High levels of vaccination also help prevent the spread of measles so whilst your little snowflake might have the best nutrition and high levels of worthless supplements money can buy, little Billy who goes to the same swing park may not have and he may be one of the unlucky ones who develops severe complications.
But it's okay, your little snowflake will be fine (apart from a horrible high fever and a irritating rash. Personally, I didn't want my kids to go through that)...fingers crossed.

Vaccination isn't about just YOU.
It's there to help everyone.

originally posted by: Pardon?
Using the Brady Bunch as a reference to show measles is harmless is the same as using Hogan's Heroes to show what a laugh it was being a prisoner of war in WWII.

Um... except no one believed that Hogan and his heroes really dug tunnels under their POW camps, etc. That's why it was funny. Because it was so over the top. As opposed to the Brady Bunch episode, which was funny because it was true.

And I don't understand this concept of "natural immunity" being better than "synthetic" immunity.

You don't understand the concept that having genuine lifelong immunity no matter what anyone else does or doesn't do is better than synthetic immunity that must be "boosted" and depends on others? I think you do know.

That means you have to get the disease right?
The disease that vaccines protect against?

Well, yeah. Sometimes -- many times -- in life, the rewards are worth the effort.

What also hasn't been mentioned (or deliberately omitted) is that if you contract measles, you put yourself at great risk of developing what's called "Immune Amnesia".
Essentially this resets your immune system leaving you susceptible to contracting other diseases that previously you had built up immunity to.

I had never ever heard of immune amnesia, so thank you! The links you provided were quite interesting (though nothing conclusive). Here is one that explains it in laymen's terms for anyone interested:

Scientists Crack A 50-Year-Old Mystery About The Measles Vaccine

"We found measles predisposes children to all other infectious diseases for up to a few years," Mina says.

And the virus seems to do it in a sneaky way.

Like many viruses, measles is known to suppress the immune system for a few weeks after an infection. But previous studies in monkeys have suggested that measles takes this suppression to a whole new level: It erases immune protection to other diseases, Mina says.

High levels of vaccination also help prevent the spread of measles so whilst your little snowflake might have the best nutrition and high levels of worthless supplements money can buy, little Billy who goes to the same swing park may not have and he may be one of the unlucky ones who develops severe complications.

My little snowflake? Really??? As you cry about poor little Billy who can't handle life in the real world without demanding others protect his health? Who's the snowflake???

But it's okay, your little snowflake will be fine (apart from a horrible high fever and a irritating rash. Personally, I didn't want my kids to go through that)...fingers crossed.

Well, let's introduce some reality here... "my" little snowflake did get the vaccinations and got the measles FROM THE VACCINATIONS!!! Wait... what? You didn't know? You had no way of knowing? Of course you didn't. And yet you presumed to talk trash anyway.

Vaccination isn't about just YOU.
It's there to help everyone.

You mean it's there to help the real snowflakes who couldn't make it if left to their own capabilities. And apparently while you are so worried about your poor little Billy, you don't give a rat's patootie about the negative side effects and adverse outcomes for other children.

Just how much do others have to do for your poor little Billy? Where is your red line? Just how much can you and poor little Billy take from others to prop up this snowflake's health?

If he needs a new heart, do I need to donate mine???

I won't quote directly as it''ll go over the word count.

The Brady Bunch is still fiction right?
Did it show their kid hallucinating from the fever? No.
Did it show their kid vomiting so much they nearly asphyxiated? No.
Did it show their kid voiding their bowels so often they need an IV to replace their fluids? No.
Did it show their kid screaming in agony from an ear infection? No.
These are pretty common with measles too.
So my analogy holds as much weight as yours.
Which is none.

Let's revisit, natural immunity. What does this actually mean?
You only have immunity to measles if you contract the measles or if you have a vaccine.
If you contract measles, you've contracted measles, you've had the disease.
I'll repeat that, you have to have had the disease to have "natural immunity".
So there's a good chance that you'll be putting your kid through what I've mentioned above so they don't get it again...
Just don't let them get it at all.

"Natural immunity" is a ridiculous term and even more ridiculous logic.

When I talk about "Billy", surprisingly he's not a specific person. There are unfortunately a lot of kids (and adults) who are born with or develop disease which means they can't be vaccinated and will be very susceptible to severe complications from contracting measles (and other vaccine preventable diseases).
But we don't need to bother about them do we? [sarcasm]
Are you okay with not taking any steps at all to help them?
Is that it?
Because by the way you write it seems very much like that.

You can't get measles from the MMR, very rarely you there might be a measles-like rash which is far less severe and not at all virulent.

The side effects from the vaccine are, in the vast majority (almost all) negligible when compared to the complications from the measles in both severity and number.

Your last paragraph is a nonsensical comparison, a false equivalence if you will.
But doing something is far better than your "I'm alright Jack" stance.
Although I'm a registered organ donor, so if Billy does need a new heart and mine was suitable, as long as I was dead, he could have it.




(The word snowflake does tend to trigger a certain type of mentality doesn't it?).

a reply to: Pardon?

When I talk about "Billy", surprisingly he's not a specific person.

But when you decided to talk trash about my "little snowflake," you sure were talking about a specific person, weren't you? And you didn't even know what the hell you were talking about. But just had to get that dig in, eh?

There are unfortunately a lot of kids (and adults) who are born with or develop disease which means they can't be vaccinated and will be very susceptible to severe complications from contracting measles (and other vaccine preventable diseases).

Like someone with hospital-acquired MRSA in their blood and bones? The ones who are soooooooooooo susceptible to the shedding of flu jabs and shingles vaxes in supermarkets and other public places where these shots are given? And then folks walk around the store shedding their viruses?

Um, yeah, I know all about that. I live with it all day every day. And I take the proper precautions for myself. I don't expect the world to bend over backwards to protect me.

If you want to shame someone, you might want to pick your targets more carefully. Because all your faux crying about the susceptible applies to me as well. So when I say that I'm very glad I have natural immunity, it's precisely because in my present condition, I cannot receive any vaccination, including boosters to prop up the waning effects of previous vaccinations.

Gee, I wonder what catching the measles right now would do to me? Especially if the theories about immune amnesia are true... I would effectively lose everything my body has learned about fighting the antibiotic-resistant MRSA, right? Seems to me that if the measles didn't kill me, the MRSA sure as hell would. But I'm supposed to believe there is no advantage in my natural lifelong genuine immunity???

Is that okay with you? Am I expendable? Just poor poor little Billy needs protection? Even if it kills someone else??? Of course not. But that's where your logic leads. There is no one-size-fits all. What's good for some is not necessarily good for all.

Funny how pushy and aggressive vaxxed people get when there is open discussion. QUICK SHUT IT DOWN!!!

The tone is pretty relaxed and open to both sides here.

you are safe you got the needle... so does your herd. Unvax are at risk not you. If you are at risk then it clearly doesent work.


Is it possible long term, generations into the future where the immune system might be a product fully dependent on the gov, or when we cant birth children or die from a cold without it??
Its not evolution its degeneration and dependency.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician
a reply to: Boadicea

This is a culling campaign to thin out the herd essentially, so that the elites and their children will inherit the earth. I will be the first to break it to them...it isn't going down like that. They will inherit NOTHING!

I've thought about this quite a bit. And I think you're right for many reasons. But one that keeps standing out for me is that in the final analysis, natural genuine immunity -- which is only possible by contracting measles and running its course -- will always be superior to synthetic immunity -- which is temporary and conditional.

Never mind that no one has the right to deny us our God-given gift of natural and genuine immunity... When push comes to shove and the survival of the fittest, it won't be those with propped up immune systems winning the day.

where do you get the idea that vaccines are synthetic ????????????

here is info.... the polio mumps measles etc' some vaccines weaken the virus in the case of measles German measles chicken pox, shingles, mumps. normally they reproduce 1000s of times in the body..but with the weakened one they reproduce about 20 times.

for polio, hepatitis a flu and rabies the virus is killed but the virus is still "seen" by the body and cells of the immune system that protect against the disease are generated

for hep b and and HPV part of the virus is removed and used, the vaccine is the protein on the surface of the virus

diphtheria pertussis and tetanus use part of the bacteria from the virus which makes a harmful protein that makes a toxin,,,they deactivate the toxin and use it as a vaccine.

so like I said where are you getting this "synthetic"

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Pardon?

When I talk about "Billy", surprisingly he's not a specific person.

But when you decided to talk trash about my "little snowflake," you sure were talking about a specific person, weren't you? And you didn't even know what the hell you were talking about. But just had to get that dig in, eh?

There are unfortunately a lot of kids (and adults) who are born with or develop disease which means they can't be vaccinated and will be very susceptible to severe complications from contracting measles (and other vaccine preventable diseases).

Like someone with hospital-acquired MRSA in their blood and bones? The ones who are soooooooooooo susceptible to the shedding of flu jabs and shingles vaxes in supermarkets and other public places where these shots are given? And then folks walk around the store shedding their viruses?

Um, yeah, I know all about that. I live with it all day every day. And I take the proper precautions for myself. I don't expect the world to bend over backwards to protect me.

If you want to shame someone, you might want to pick your targets more carefully. Because all your faux crying about the susceptible applies to me as well. So when I say that I'm very glad I have natural immunity, it's precisely because in my present condition, I cannot receive any vaccination, including boosters to prop up the waning effects of previous vaccinations.

Gee, I wonder what catching the measles right now would do to me? Especially if the theories about immune amnesia are true... I would effectively lose everything my body has learned about fighting the antibiotic-resistant MRSA, right? Seems to me that if the measles didn't kill me, the MRSA sure as hell would. But I'm supposed to believe there is no advantage in my natural lifelong genuine immunity???

Is that okay with you? Am I expendable? Just poor poor little Billy needs protection? Even if it kills someone else??? Of course not. But that's where your logic leads. There is no one-size-fits all. What's good for some is not necessarily good for all.

I've obviously touched a nerve but "Billy" wasn't specific no matter how much you think it was.

You've far less chance of catching flu from an attenuated flu vaccine than from the virus itself, virtually zero in fact.
The attenuated viral aspect of the vaccine doesn't reproduce very well nor travel too far.
The same for the shingles vaccine too (there's actually never been a reported case of anyone catching chickenpox/shigles from someone who's recently been vaccinated with varicella).
So from that respect your fears are overblown. Grossly overblown

As for MRSA, that's treated very successfully these days so you may want to get a new doctor who knows what they're doing.
That might help put your mind at rest and calm you down a little.

a reply to: research100

Synthetic:

1. (of a substance) made by chemical synthesis, especially to imitate a natural product. "synthetic rubber"
2. Logic (of a proposition) having truth or falsity determinable by recourse to experience.

Vaccines are manufactured; the viruses are not in their natural form and are not spread naturally. Vaccines do not provide genuine lifelong immunity but must be "boosted" with supplemental vaccinations.

If you don't like my choice of words, okay. Somehow I don't think you'll like it any better when I call it "inferior" either.

a reply to: Pardon?

As for MRSA, that's treated very successfully these days so you may want to get a new doctor who knows what they're doing.

No, actually, it's not. And I have seen many doctors. I daresay you don't know the difference between HA and CA either. Nor do you seem to understand that there is no cure once it's introduced into the body and colonizes. Nor are doctors citing MRSA on death certificates as the cause of death, so it is actually impossible to know how many people have died/are dying of MRSA infections -- whether via sepsis or a localized infection.

But it's okay. You made my point for me -- so thank you for that. You are all concerned about poor poor little Billy and his imaginary issues, but when you're faced with a real person with real health issues that could be impacted, you just blow it off. So just faux outrage and concern.

You're worried about yourself, you think vaccinations will make you immortal, and you don't give a rat's patootie about anyone else. Gotcha.

a reply to: Pardon?

As for MRSA, that's treated very successfully these days so you may want to get a new doctor who knows what they're doing.

Oh dear! Oh my! It CAN'T be!!! But it is. It seems someone neglected to tell these patients' doctors how to "successfully" treat staph infections:

BREAKING - Deadly outbreak beginning to kill off elderly in England, Could Spread to Europe, World

Better go skool them.. go on now... quick quick like a bunny!