Trying to resolve 9/11

a reply to: neutronflux

This photo you keep posting, from which WTC collapse did you snag this? WTC1 or WTC2?
Proof of what exactly does it present in your mind?

Just to be clear, from here on.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: neutronflux

Well how is this for a stone.

Soros-Backed Group Demands Financial Blacklisting Of Conservatives

What's up Mr Soros, worried you are going to loose your head if 9/11 does get reinvestigated?

Maybe I am just making things up?

George Soros is referenced in that 9/11 Commission Report version from 2008 I stumbled across a whopping 31 times.
Just saying...

Gold is stated in this report 512 times.
Money laundering is stated in this report 125 times.

I steer clear of most of the 9/11 debates but I tell you - this is one interesting document. Wish I could determine its authenticity/legitimacy.

a reply to: Jesushere

Bin Laden, was not a "mysterious" character. His hatred of the United States, was known LONG before 2001. Like back to the early 80s, when Westerners visiting the Afghan Mujaheddin were warned to stay far from any of the Arab fighters camps that Bin Laden was in.

originally posted by: democracydemo
a reply to: neutronflux

This photo you keep posting, from which WTC collapse did you snag this? WTC1 or WTC2?
Proof of what exactly does it present in your mind?

Just to be clear, from here on.

You tell me

a reply to: democracydemo

Now cite evidence of columns cut by pyrotechnics.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: neutronflux

I did find one photo but it is in a pdf file on page 7 link

With part of all these problems, you have established a strong connection between the evidence and ridiculous. It is why you feel stuck in the mud on this. Being aware of this connection will help you combat it. I know you have a very strong, analytical and logical mind in there.

This statement and picture?

www.ae911truth.org...

In February 2012 an FOIA request produced three photos, taken during October 2001, showing Dr. John Gross of NIST posing with a heavily eroded WTC 7 beam. These photos contradict Dr. Gross’ statements about not witnessing steel that had been subjected to high temperatures. In fact, Dr. Gross was on the team headed by Dr. Jonathan Barnett, who was responsible for discovering, during the FEMA investigation, the WTC 7 beam featured in the Appendix C forensic analysis, which was melted and sulfidated. This is one of the steel beams the ends of which Barnett had previously described as “partially evaporated.” Such evaporation required temperatures exceeding 4,000° F.

Do you agree the piece of metal in the photo is somewhat in its original shape with no melting?

The key statement, “Such evaporation required temperatures exceeding 4,000° F.”

If the metal was exposed to 4000 F, the darn thing would have been a melted ball of slag and metal. Not hold it’s shape in a thin sheet. You believe this the crap?

Again, How long did that piece of metal sit in a hot wet steaming toxic soup of melted and/or burnt pile of batteries, AC Units, PCV pipe, Vinyl Tile, ceilings tiles, office equipment, office furniture, carpet, wire insulation...

Toxicity of fire smoke.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Many contain nitrogen or halogens, resulting in the release of hydrogen cyanide and inorganic acids in fire smoke as additional toxic threats

Addressing Toxic Smoke Particulates
in Fire Restoration

www.uphelp.org...

The toxic mixture of chemicals and gasses contained in fire smoke is comprised primarily of carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, hydrogen cyanide, ammonia, hydrogen chloride, sulfur dioxide, hydrogen sulfide, acids, and oxides of
nitrogen. Other toxins may include acetylene, methyl mercaptan, ammonia, nitric oxide, carbon disulfide, creosote, nitrogen dioxide, dimethyl sulfide, phosphine, ethylene, benzene, methylene chloride, lead, chromium, and other metals, trichloroethylene, toluene, trichlorophenol, fluorine, acrolein, mercury, formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, benzaldehyde, sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid, arsenic, chromate, phenol, styrene, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, and the list goes on.
Chlorine gas was the first lethal chemical to be used in World War I, resulting in thousands of casualties. Then later phosgene and diphosgene were used. Hydrogen cyanide was also produced,
but its physical properties were found to be unsuitable for use as an effective chemical warfare agent. (Hydrogen cyanide and phosgene are both commonly found in structure fire smoke) Phosgene was first used as a Chemical Weapon by the Germans, but was later used by the French, Americans, and British. Initial deployment of the gas was by the Germans at Ypres Salient on December 19, 1915 when they released around 4000 cylinders of phosgene combined with Chlorine against the British. Phosgene was responsible for the majority of deaths that resulted from chemical warfare.(5)
To illustrate the types of chemicals found in structure fires, here is a list of some of the most common toxic chemicals and gases found after structure fires and their effect on human health:

a reply to: neutronflux

Do you agree the piece of metal in the photo is somewhat in its original shape with no melting?

No. I do agree the piece of metal is somewhat in it original shape. The photo does not show the whole beam, but you can see some of the beam still has its original shape and integrity.

As for the part of the beam you focused on in putting up the photo. It does look like it has been melted. It reminds me of what you would see when a block of ice melts. Although in this case it is steel and not ice that has melted.

Where did the heat come from for that?

a reply to: neutronflux

I can see with a lot of your posts you are trying to scream out for help, but things are a bit of a mess. Been there too.

It is due to the psychological warfare that has been put on the population. Ridicule has been one technique to stop people looking or asking certain questions. We see ridicule used in lots of ways today, like political debates as one example. It has become very common. I have laughed at some pretty dark stuff at time, it does make it easier than facing it.

I do value strongest facts over a bigger laugh.

One important stone to add



How do you handle this whirlpool Sir?

a reply to: kwakakev

You are saying the thin metal retained is shape as a “rolled” sheet through its duration of being subjected to 4000 F ?
See picture below.



When this is the shape steel takes at roughly
2700 F

m.youtube.com...

If the pile was at 4000F, the pice of steel would not be a single thin sheet. Is would be a frozen pool of metal and slag fused to any other structural steel it came in contact with.

This piece of steel underwent accelerated rates of corrosion in a hot, wet, steaming soup of toxic chemicals


There’s no indication it was exposed to explosives or thermite.

Do you have any common sense? Or is your common sense trumped by the need to believe in the falsehoods and fantasies of WTC controlled demolitions.

a reply to: kwakakev

By the way. Emergency lights used in stairwells use sulfuric acid batteries as backup energy supplies.

90% of the country does not believe the official story.
To all of you that wasn't born yet and want to look down the rabbit hole...
don't argue how a building went down....
Saudi Arabia's involvement in the 911 attacks is obvious.FBI named 15 (out of 19) hijackers of Saudi nationality.

Saudi Arabia never got attacked for their part, despite the fact that fellow Muslim nations did, such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Libya and Syria just name a few.
OIL
follow the money trail.....

a reply to: neutronflux

I know this will take time.

If the failures where from explosives, the metal would look “washed / eroded” and have “knifed” edges.

Link

There’s no indication it was exposed to explosives or thermite.

Do we have another ridiculous resolution?

This piece of steel underwent accelerated rates of corrosion in a hot, wet, steaming soup of toxic chemicals

Yes it did. Something got it hot enough to do that. Are you claiming it was battery acid?

One tip for those lost in the darkness and madness of it all. Just picture what kind of world you want, this can help you find that next step in the right direction.

a reply to: madenusa

90% of the country does not believe the official story.

You made that up.
That's how the conspiracy crowd works. They make up fictitious facts,

a reply to: kwakakev

Man. That is a disjointed ball of crap.

I have no idea what you are linking to?

Another random link with no context.

Is the link to a photo of the columns with broken welds.

The one that prompted this reply?

originally posted by: Pilgrum
a reply to: kwakakev

That's not evidence of cutting (the pile of steel pieces all about the same length). That's how it was delivered to construct the buildings (IE in convenient truck-sized pieces). It was lifted into position where it was welded/bolted together and those joints failed during the collapse rather than the steel sections themselves. There's a reasonable case there for claims of sub-standard construction but we never hear anything along those lines for some reason.

Here's a couple of those 'sticks' which were core column sections and the weld that failed is visible. The column sections are remarkably unscathed otherwise.

Just more intellectually dishonesty

Holy cow, you cannot make a credible argument.

You

Yes it did. Something got it hot enough to do that. Are you claiming it was battery acid?

No, this is what a I am claiming attacked the steel at ground zero when it was in a wet, hot, steaming pile of toxic soup.

Addressing Toxic Smoke Particulates
in Fire Restoration

www.uphelp.org...
www.uphelp.org...

The toxic mixture of chemicals and gasses contained in fire smoke is comprised primarily of carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, hydrogen cyanide, ammonia, hydrogen chloride, sulfur dioxide, hydrogen sulfide, acids, and oxides of
nitrogen. Other toxins may include acetylene, methyl mercaptan, ammonia, nitric oxide, carbon disulfide, creosote, nitrogen dioxide, dimethyl sulfide, phosphine, ethylene, benzene, methylene chloride, lead, chromium, and other metals, trichloroethylene, toluene, trichlorophenol, fluorine, acrolein, mercury, formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, benzaldehyde, sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid, arsenic, chromate, phenol, styrene, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, and the list goes on.
Chlorine gas was the first lethal chemical to be used in World War I, resulting in thousands of casualties. Then later phosgene and diphosgene were used. Hydrogen cyanide was also produced,
but its physical properties were found to be unsuitable for use as an effective chemical warfare agent. (Hydrogen cyanide and phosgene are both commonly found in structure fire smoke) Phosgene was first used as a Chemical Weapon by the Germans, but was later used by the French, Americans, and British. Initial deployment of the gas was by the Germans at Ypres Salient on December 19, 1915 when they released around 4000 cylinders of phosgene combined with Chlorine against the British. Phosgene was responsible for the majority of deaths that resulted from chemical warfare.(5)
To illustrate the types of chemicals found in structure fires, here is a list of some of the most common toxic chemicals and gases found after structure fires and their effect on human health:

Any rise in temps and increases in moister levels accelerates most corrosions.

The WTC building did contain items like acid batteries for emergency lighting. Each landing of each stairwell would have had a emergency light with a battery. For WTC 7, that’s over 40 per stair well. The acid from the exploding and ruptured batteries went someplace. And yes. Sealed batteries have a history of exploding in building fires.

m.youtube.com...

a reply to: neutronflux

What I linked to was some of your past arguments about this. I am trying to form a picture on how you see this problem so you know where you need to focus your attention. It does look like you are making progress. I know this is tough and you are going to have to put up a fight to get over it. It does get easier once you can get through that block / vale of deception you have.

So ok, we have some acid, building materials, office furniture all burning away. I agree.

Any rise in temps and increases in moister levels accelerates most corrosions. I agree.

We need to do this just in your words, this is about you. How do you explain the melted knife edges in the steel beams?

a reply to: kwakakev

I don’t need to justify crap to you. I am here to debate fact and science.

You just don’t get it. You blew your credibility when you:
- said thermite kept the pile hot for three months
-said there was a strong case for thermite when there is zero evidence of thermite
- said the con artist Richard Gage made some good points

When it comes to WTC controlled demolitions, you have only provided long debunked truth movement talking points.

What do you not get there is no case, no evidence the WTC was brought down by planted pyrotechnics.

Your arguments are based on hiding facts, misquotes, innuendo, truth movement lies, and truth movement fraudulent studies. While trying to prompt charlatans like Richard Gage. Everything people with common sense hates about the truth movement.

And your going to try to lecture people. You need to get out of the rabbit hole, and evaluate yourself be fire judging anyone else. Especially when you ignore actual evidence that contradicts your view, you use falsehoods, innuendo, and intellectually dishonest argument.

a reply to: kwakakev

I what evidence of cut columns. Not you claiming steel in its manufactured shape was worked on by 4000F temps with no evidence of melting or slag production. Not pictures of cars half burnt with paint and plastic tail lights still on them. Not pictures of random columns with broken welds dishonestly posted as cut columns. Not the false argument they didn’t test for explosives when the failures were from broken welds, overloading, or from being sheared. Not the lie thermite kept the WTC hot for three months. Not the claim of a strong case of thermite when there is only a unproven fraudulent study and paint chips.

Not when it’s evident large lengths of the vertical columns remained standing after the complete failures of WTC 1’s and 2’s floor systems, and only toppled from loss of lateral support.


There is no evidence of columns cut by explosives or thermite. None. You are pushing a false argument by those exploiting 9/11, and you think you have a right to lecture people.

a reply to: neutronflux

How do you explain the melted knife edges in the steel beams?

no evidence of melting or slag production

I am looking for a common understanding. Either one of us can stop this at anytime. We are both doing this because we choose to. I like facts and science too.