Trying to resolve 9/11

a reply to: Hulseyreport

And you need to explain this...

So. Again. I have no F’n clue what your talking about when I posted the picture of the actual damage. You are as dishonest as a flat earther.

What not disputed- twin towers when falling down hurled steel and all sorts of debris, many street blocks away and many pieces of steel could have reached that far and landed on top of the roof of smaller buildings, even more since when building seven is in close proximity to fiterman hall that near Greenwich street

No. You said:

Thermal expansion of girders and beams leading to an asymmetrical total collapse however only occurred in the minds of NIST

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So the twin towers was not a asymmetrical collapse, or the twin towers collapse was a asymmetrical? I am not sure you know what your posting?

Definition of asymmetrical..

having parts that fail to correspond to one another in shape, size, or arrangement; lacking symmetry.
"the church has an asymmetrical plan with an aisle only on one side"

Are you saying Thermal expansion of girders and beams lead to a symmetric collapse? Since you posed “ Thermal expansion of girders and beams leading to an asymmetrical total collapse however only occurred in the minds of NIST “?

Neutro i said it possible the twin tower wreckage reached that far and damaged Fiterman hall and also possible a building of 47 floors hitting the ground below pushed a dust plume high enough along narrow streets to damage this building. You saw how large the dust cloud was in New York after the towers collapsed. Seven half the towers size vertically.

originally posted by: Hulseyreport
Neutro i said it possible the twin tower wreckage reached that far and damaged Fiterman hall and also possible a building of 47 floors hitting the ground below pushed a dust plume high enough along narrow streets to damage this building. You saw how large the dust cloud was in New York after the towers collapsed. Seven half the towers size vertically.

No. You posted this.. now you are lying about what you actual post.

So. Again. I have no F’n clue what your talking about when I posted the picture of the actual damage. You are as dishonest as a flat earther.

What not disputed- twin towers when falling down hurled steel and all sorts of debris, many street blocks away and many pieces of steel could have reached that far and landed on top of the roof of smaller buildings, even more since when building seven is in close proximity to fiterman hall that near Greenwich street

No. You said:

Thermal expansion of girders and beams leading to an asymmetrical total collapse however only occurred in the minds of NIST

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So the twin towers was not a asymmetrical collapse, or the twin towers collapse was a asymmetrical? I am not sure you know what your posting?

Definition of asymmetrical..

having parts that fail to correspond to one another in shape, size, or arrangement; lacking symmetry.
"the church has an asymmetrical plan with an aisle only on one side"

Are you saying Thermal expansion of girders and beams lead to a symmetric collapse? Since you posed “ Thermal expansion of girders and beams leading to an asymmetrical total collapse however only occurred in the minds of NIST “?

a reply to: Hulseyreport

And my screen name is neutronflux.

At least my screen name isn’t related to a truth movement bought and fraudulent repost being used to exploit 9/12 off lies.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Hulseyreport
Neutro can you not read and understand things like a normal person?

By NIST.
"However-induced buckling of floor beams and damage to connections—which caused buckling of a critical column 79) initiating collapse—occurred at temperatures below approximately 400 degrees Celsius (where thermal expansion dominates)

The steel was not hot enough to snap or break. NIST is claiming the steel expanded a few inches by thermal forces which is a different thing entirely.

It not me with a reading comprehension.

Start with this...

And good thing there are two other court submitted studies that concluded fire related collapse. What was the collapse mechanisms in those studies. I think they concluded fire related collapse, but had different areas of initiation.

Other WTC7 Investigations: Aegis Insurance v. 7 World Trade Company Expert Reports

www.metabunk.org...

#

Two different engineering groups were brought in to fight over the construction of building seven. It was a court battle with many prejudices and biases. Started off trying to prove each other wrong and likely the conclusions are wrong.

Yes your correct, I forget which firm said the collapse was triggered between the 10th and 8th floor. Which in that case, that firm, believes NIST theory about the collapse wrong and never happened on floor 12 and 13.

This is a quote about seven.

Thermal expansion of girders and beams leading to an asymmetrical total collapse however only occurred in the minds of NIST.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

And my screen name is neutronflux.

At least my screen name isn’t related to a truth movement bought and fraudulent repost being used to exploit 9/12 off lies.

Look at the circumstances and the known history about steel building fires.

Protected Steel high rise never collapsed due to fire prior to 9/11. But you convinced it happened on 9/11 because you want to believe?.

Very strange behaviour. The fact it happens not once but three times on 9/11 during a terrorist attack by unknown forces, you don’t find this suspicious. We actually have an event were sinister forces attacked the United States.

It very possible buildings were brought down even more so when progressive collapses do not happen in protected steel high rises. If this was happening around the world i be willing to believe the official story. The fact is does not happen at all, one wonders what went on here behind the scenes before the attack

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Protected Steel high rise never collapsed due to fire prior to 9/11. But you convinced it happened on 9/11 because you want to believe?.

Yet you posted..

There not a single bit of text recorded history, of buildings, of this type failing in such a manner due to fire.

Another blatant lie.

WTC 5 had structural related failures. Including collapsed floors.
Which shows the WTC structures were susceptible to fire related failures.







Then there was the Windsor Tower Fire where the steel structure above the 17 floor buckled and collapsed due to improper fire insulation. The WTC was documented as having deficient fire insulation. In addition to jet impacts and building damage from falling debris damaging fire insulation. The Windsor tower had actual concrete load bearing columns that the WTC buildings lacked.

The Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...

The Damage
The Windsor Tower was completely gutted by the fire on 12 February 2005. A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1). It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.

The there was the Plasco building collapse in Tehran.

Structural investigation of the collapse of the 16‐story Plasco building due to fire

onlinelibrary.wiley.com...

Summary
On January 19, 2017, the 16‐story Plasco tower located in Tehran, the capital city of Iran, collapsed in several stages, due to a fire lasting 3.5 h. This paper presents the results of numerical investigations on how the structure behaved during that incident. In this regard, initially, a part of floor system including main truss girders, secondary truss beams, tie beams, and reinforced concrete slab is simulated to study its deformed shape and collapse modes. Then 2D and 3D models of the building are developed to evaluate the global behavior of the structure under fire. The results show that at elevated temperatures, deflection of the floor system, main trusses, and out‐of‐plane bending of the beam‐to‐column gusset plates become excessive, leading to partial collapse of floor, in the location of fire initiation. Also, 2D models show that thermal expansion and catenary action of heated truss induce large lateral displacement and bending moment in perimeter column that cause failure of this column at about 650°C. Finally, 3D models indicate that general collapse of the building is initiated by buckling of the external columns located in the southern perimeter of the building. This result is in good agreement with videos and photos showing actual collapse of the structure.

Then there was the “ Brazil fire: São Paulo building collapses in huge blaze”

A 26-storey building has collapsed after being engulfed in flames in Brazil's largest city, São Paulo, killing at least one person.

www.bbc.com...

If WTC 1,2 and 7 used more expensive load bearing concrete cores, and / or better and thicker fire insulation, the buildings might have performed better. The real “conspiracy” how cheaply the WTC buildings were built. Then you get into the port authority was able to choose what codes they would follow from a draft building code update. The last code update was something like 1939? With the draft in 1968? Even for the 1968-ish building code update, how many 110 story buildings existed to draw working knowledge from?


You

You basically have to disregard established knowledge to accept the official story.

It’s a recorded fact as steel heats up, it looses its ability to resist load, and expands. That high rise buildings with improperly fire insulated steel are dangerous. Uneven heating and thermal expansion is known to cause structural failures in many steel structures/equipment. And it’s compounded by subsequence cooling and contraction.

See the cited quote concerning the Plasco collapse.

Frankly lot of people have just accepted fantasy because there minds cannot go to that dark place, got lied to about what happened during that day.

Your the one ignoring all manner of evidence, scientific facts, and the nature of steel. Sad you push a false truth movement mythology/lie to aid those of the truth movement that exploit 9/11 for personal gain.

In some ways I can understand there position on this, since they never witnessed the planting of demolitions and most of the “Joe soaps” believes as they do.

Again...

There is no indication the expensive office rental space was infringed upon by barrels of explosives taking up space.

I hope this sinks through your truth movement ignorance.

No indication of demolition shrapnel from a building not set up to capture shrapnel with traps and water barrels. Improper implosion setup has been responsible for spectator deaths.

Katie was was killed instantly by a steel fragment sent flying from 430 metres across the lake. It was thought to be travelling at 140km/h.

www.canberratimes.com.au...

There is zero evidence there was planted pyrotechnics.

There is zero evidence pyrotechnics brought down WTC 7.

The controlled demolition system would not have survived being hit from the twin towers debris and hours of fires.

Sorry. Your position is out of complete ignorance and having no understanding of pyrotechnics.

There is plenty of evidence for wrongdoing by looking over the findings in the official collapse report, published by the department of commerce ( in this case NIST) You can see the went to great lengths to “muddy the waters” about the event

Well. Good thing I go by the actual video, photographic, audio, physical, seismic, human remain, personal injury evidence.

It was a smoking gun comment

The smoking gun should be the actual video, photographic, audio, physical, seismic, human remain, personal injury evidence. Not your innuendo concerning paperwork.

What’s that thing I post. And you ignore? A controlled demolition using explosives is awe inspiring and blatantly obvious “bangs” and would echo about Manhattan.

Neutro not able to understand the flow of 9/11 information that got released over the last decade.

Funny, when I reference the actual video, photographic, audio, physical, seismic, human remain, personal injury evidence. While you avoid using the actual video, photographic, audio, physical, seismic, human remain, personal injury evidence.

Sad you have to blatantly lie to push your false mythology to push what other’s concocted to exploit 9/11 for a target audience.
—————
What do not understand. You have contradict yourself and lied to the point you have no credibility.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

Let’s not lose the fact you contradict yourself.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Protected Steel high rise never collapsed due to fire prior to 9/11. But you convinced it happened on 9/11 because you want to believe?.

Yet you posted..

There not a single bit of text recorded history, of buildings, of this type failing in such a manner due to fire.

Another blatant lie.

——-and——

You

Building seven did not come apart at all

Back to blatant lies to create a false mythology....

But. Yet you posted?

The building did come apart like i show in that gif.

———now.

Your statement.

Thermal expansion of girders and beams leading to an asymmetrical total collapse however only occurred in the minds of NIST.

Do you understand what you are posting at all?

Definition : asymmetrical. having parts that fail to correspond to one another in shape, size, or arrangement; lacking symmetry.
"the church has an asymmetrical plan with an aisle only on one side"

Or: having two sides or halves that are not the same : not symmetrical
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/asymmetrical
www.merriam-webster.com...

Are you saying the WTC 7 failed asymmetrical? Or you saying a fire collapse can cause a symmetrical collapse?

Anyway.

WTC 7 did have a “kink” that developed during college.

And part of WTC 7 did fall past its foot print. Did fall out across the street. And feel down onto the roofline of Fiterman Hall. And the WTC 7 debris did crash down causing downward structural/collapse failures.

Well now haven't the jolly Daily Mail been nice to publish an article just a few days ago:

The conspiracy theory that still won't rest in peace: Think it's only cranks who believe the Twin Towers attack was a U.S. government plot? Twenty years on, the family of one British victim is demanding a fresh inquest in the hope of proving just that

originally posted by: democracydemo
Well now haven't the jolly Daily Mail been nice to publish an article just a few days ago:

The conspiracy theory that still won't rest in peace: Think it's only cranks who believe the Twin Towers attack was a U.S. government plot? Twenty years on, the family of one British victim is demanding a fresh inquest in the hope of proving just that

So. Still no credible evidence of the WTC being brought down by pyrotechnics. Just the same truth movement lies.

The article lies.

The view that the Twin Towers' girders melted because of fires caused by fuel from the two hijacked planes has been repeated in White House briefings, official inquiries into 9/11 and television documentaries in the UK and U.S

www.dailymail.co.uk... jGf_Mbwspk

Cite what “official study” claims “ girders melted” to start the collapse.

Oh.

There it is.

Yet the Campbell family and a U.S. campaign organisation, Architects And Engineers For 9/11 Truth (A&E), say this makes no scientific sense: most steel does not melt until it reaches around 2,800f (1,537c), and open fires of jet fuel — such as those in the Twin Towers inferno — cannot burn hotter than 1,700f (926c).

Just the same truth movement lies and false mythology debunked over and over again.

Again. Based on lies. Cite what “official study” claims the WTC buildings collapse because of steel reaching its melting point.

But steel will heat up and become more workable without reaching its melting point. As proven by WTC5




At 1700 F steel loses about 50 percent of its strength to resis load. Is that a false statement.

Nine respected scientists have also published peer-reviewed research showing that dust from the destroyed Twin Towers contained microscopic remnants of nano-thermite explosives, which can be tailored for use in controlled demolitions.

Funny the actual paper is not named and linked to. The “paper” that was published in a crooked pay to play publication. Where it bypassed the paper’s referee. From samples not burnt in an inert atmosphere to prove there was actual “thermite”. With “peers” that were actually consulted during the writing off the paper. So no actual unbiased peer review.

While ignoring such a system of wiring and detonators would never have survived the jet impacts and fires to initiate the collapse in the areas of the jet impacts. As the collapse initiation is captured in the video evidence from different angles.

While ignoring that thermite would been too slow, taking whole minutes to cut through columns. Making it impossible to use as the supposed split timed fantasy top down CD. With the thermite burning so slow it would result in molten cut joints pushed together under load, and cold welding together. With the need of actual explosives referred to as kicker charges to misalign the columns.

In other words, the absence of deceleration in the 'free fall' is apparent proof that another force — explosives — had already destroyed the lower part of the building, allowing the upper section to plunge down through it at an increasingly fast pace.

Cite any times from the video of the Twin Towers this actually occurred. The cores of the twin towers fell last from losing lateral support after the floor systems were stripped away.

Some of the core was still standing up to 20 seconds after the collapse. And why would they not reach “free fall” if they tumbled outward after being stripped of the floor system. So. The truth movement is based on a lie.











So. No core columns actually cut

With even hydraulic equipment induced explosive free implosions causing huge amounts of dust.

The Dual-Deception of 9/11 and the Fraudulent War on Terror - Christopher Bollyn

Links to a 2 hour presentation by Christopher Bollyn. Is well researched that gets more into the who and why.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: kayprepper


As governments have grown they have taken over responsibility of defining right and wrong, religion has fell more into a diversity of social groups, bringing together those who share a common belief, culture and way of life.

Just what do you think is going to happen when you get a large bunch of psychopaths together with heaps of cash?

hahah...you might like to read/listen to Joseph Campbell ...

RARELY SEEN WTC7 FOUND FOOTAGE

A short video that has a close up of WTC7 as the internal charges are set off as the building starts its collapse.

originally posted by: kwakakev
RARELY SEEN WTC7 FOUND FOOTAGE

A short video that has a close up of WTC7 as the internal charges are set off as the building starts its collapse.

There is no evidence of charges. And no evidence such a system would survive the wide spread fires.

Just truth movement myth and propaganda,

originally posted by: kwakakev
RARELY SEEN WTC7 FOUND FOOTAGE

A short video that has a close up of WTC7 as the internal charges are set off as the building starts its collapse.

Just watched the video. Laughable hoax. I think it’s one been floating around a while and proven fake.

a reply to: WhatItIs

Looks to fit in quite well with other videos I have seen of the event. Also includes some audio of the blasts, something that has been scrubbed from many of the videos that did make it onto the internet.

Laughable hoax.

You do mean the official stony on how a building like WCT7 demolishes it's self at free fall speed?

originally posted by: kwakakev
RARELY SEEN WTC7 FOUND FOOTAGE

A short video that has a close up of WTC7 as the internal charges are set off as the building starts its collapse.

WTC Building 7 Collapse - 23 angles

m.youtube.com...

The compilation video contains a few different clips of people talking with their backs to WTC 7 during collapse initiation, and then have to be told WTC 7 is collapsing. There is no evidence of charges setting off….

a reply to: WhatItIs

There is no evidence of charges setting off….

I guess there is not when it is easier to live in denial than deal with the hard physical facts of reality.

I guess you are on this thread because you are still trying to resolve the 9/11 issues?

What is the one way that buildings like WCT7 fall like it did and that has been reproduced many times before by people experienced in demolitions?

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: WhatItIs

There is no evidence of charges setting off….

I guess there is not when it is easier to live in denial than deal with the hard physical facts of reality.

I guess you are on this thread because you are still trying to resolve the 9/11 issues?

What is the one way that buildings like WCT7 fall like it did and that has been reproduced many times before by people experienced in demolitions?

You just tried to post an obvious hoax video as evidence. Then you’re going to lecture me.

There is a reason people hate the truth movement. Not because they can’t handle the truth. It’s because often the truth movement is the con.

I guess there is not when it is easier to live in denial than deal with the hard physical facts of reality.

I guess you are on this thread because you are still trying to resolve the 9/11 issues?

What is the one way that buildings like WCT7 fall like it did and that has been reproduced many times before by people experienced in demolitions?

a reply to: kwakakev

You want the truth ?

6 months after 9/11 went to a seminar featuring several FDNY chief officers, including the incident commanders on the scene

WTC 7 was damaged by collapse of WTC 1 where the debris slashed open the south side of the building and started numerous fire

Collapse of WTC 1 & 2 destroyed the water mains in the area

FDNY units initially went in to WTC 7 to assess the damage and extinguish the fires

When the extent of the damage, non functioning elevators, lack of water in the standpipes to fight the fires became evident FDNY personnel were pulled out of the building shortly after noon

A surveyor transit from Rescue 3 Collapse unit was setup to monitor the building By 230 pm a large bulge was seem forming at the southwest corner of WTC 7

FDNY command staff ordered a collapse zone around the building and all personnel to clear the area I actually heard the orders to evacuate the area in my firehouse in NJ - we were on standby covering a neighboring city who had sent their day shift to New York to assist

This was over 2 hours before WTC 7 collapse - building was already exhibiting sighs of instability

For next few hours fires spread unchecked until finally overwhelm the building structure and collapsed at 520 PM

This is the truth not your conspiracy fantasy .........