David Icke explains the Trans agenda

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

So you think the NHS should pay for hormone treatment and surgery to appease someone who is delusional?

I agree they need medical help but not feeding their inability to accept the body they were born with.

If i wanted to transition into a dog, should the NHS be responsible and start genetic research into growing me a tail?

As I said I think what is best should be decided by medical professionals who have actually examined the person and the person themselves.

That seems a better method than anonymous online posters on a conspiracy web site deciding.

You mean those who can ensure a continuous income from counseling, prescriptions, surgeries, kickbacks, etcetera ? I think I would rather trust in the real scientists of biology. Who reach their conclusions by actual scientific data and long-term studies.

Since the original post was in regard the NHS you might want to understand how NHS doctors get paid before making such an ill informed post.

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Feel free to disagree with transgenderism if you want.

Personally I tend to take the view the doctors, psychologists and the transgender person themselves know better what is the right course of action for them.

Your previous arguments suggest you approve of hormone treatment and surgery. Where is the evidence from doctors, psychologists or transgender patients that this has any positive effect on their condition?

I.approve of medical professional examining patients and following best practise in treatment.

I think that is better than anonymous online opinions as a method of deciding care.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

If you think we should be medicating and mutilating children because they are confused about their birth gender to appease their needs and wants then we have no common ground to find.

Please provide this overwhelming evidence you speak of as i'd like to see it. Any studies i have read suggest transitioning has no positive effects on the condition as the massively high level of suicide and depression within the community remains stable regardless of the treatments currently offered.

Basically the medication and surgery doesn't work, so i think your talking out of your ass.

Where did I use the phrase overwhelming evidence?

What speciality is your medical degree in?

I assume you have a good one in order to be able to diagnose the best treatment for people you have never examined over the internet?

My degree is a BSc Computer Science. My wife is a clinical psychologist with a BSc (Hons) Clinical Psychology.

We don't agree on much but on this particular topic she fully supports my position.

What is your educational background?

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: CynConcepts

Exactly, it's not even an argument.

Would you agree then that transgender is a psychological construct and should be treated as such?

As I posted earlier, children should be taught that masculinity and femininity have varying levels of nature and personality traits. These can vary greatly whether you are male or female. Acceptance that you are what you are, is honesty and truth. No meds is needed, no surgery, no reason to not accept individuals as is.

Everyone, especially those who vary on the extreme gender variant ends would be less confused.

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

If you think we should be medicating and mutilating children because they are confused about their birth gender to appease their needs and wants then we have no common ground to find.

Please provide this overwhelming evidence you speak of as i'd like to see it. Any studies i have read suggest transitioning has no positive effects on the condition as the massively high level of suicide and depression within the community remains stable regardless of the treatments currently offered.

Basically the medication and surgery doesn't work, so i think your talking out of your ass.

Where did I use the phrase overwhelming evidence?

What speciality is your medical degree in?

I assume you have a good one in order to be able to diagnose the best treatment for people you have never examined over the internet?

My degree is a BSc Computer Science. My wife is a clinical psychologist with a BSc (Hons) Clinical Psychology.

We don't agree on much but on this particular topic she fully supports my position.

What is your educational background?

Irrelevant since I am not the one that thinks I know better than medical professionals who are actually treating transgender people.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

If you think we should be medicating and mutilating children because they are confused about their birth gender to appease their needs and wants then we have no common ground to find.

Please provide this overwhelming evidence you speak of as i'd like to see it. Any studies i have read suggest transitioning has no positive effects on the condition as the massively high level of suicide and depression within the community remains stable regardless of the treatments currently offered.

Basically the medication and surgery doesn't work, so i think your talking out of your ass.

Where did I use the phrase overwhelming evidence?

What speciality is your medical degree in?

I assume you have a good one in order to be able to diagnose the best treatment for people you have never examined over the internet?

My degree is a BSc Computer Science. My wife is a clinical psychologist with a BSc (Hons) Clinical Psychology.

We don't agree on much but on this particular topic she fully supports my position.

What is your educational background?

Irrelevant since I am not the one that thinks I know better than medical professionals who are actually treating transgender people.

I don't think i know better, the research i have done suggests the evidence is contrary to your viewpoint on the subject.

I'm sat next to someone who has spent the last 10 years treating psychological conditions, if you have any particular questions i'm sure she would be happy to help (as soon as she's finished making the family roast). Just so i don't get the lazy chauvinist pig claim thrown at me i am responsible for the washing up afterward as i can't cook to save myself. We are both happy with the deal.

She's of the informed opinion that transgender people who are uncomfortable with their birth sex are better served with psychological help. She would say that i suppose considering it pays the bills.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

So you think the NHS should pay for hormone treatment and surgery to appease someone who is delusional?

I agree they need medical help but not feeding their inability to accept the body they were born with.

If i wanted to transition into a dog, should the NHS be responsible and start genetic research into growing me a tail?

As I said I think what is best should be decided by medical professionals who have actually examined the person and the person themselves.

That seems a better method than anonymous online posters on a conspiracy web site deciding.

You mean those who can ensure a continuous income from counseling, prescriptions, surgeries, kickbacks, etcetera ? I think I would rather trust in the real scientists of biology. Who reach their conclusions by actual scientific data and long-term studies.

Since the original post was in regard the NHS you might want to understand how NHS doctors get paid before making such an ill informed post.

There are many doctors and psychologists who say Transgenderism is a 'mental' symptom and surgery and meds are not needed nor helpful.

Link to google search

There are pages and pages of links to show that there is a great divide in the professional fields.

Edit add: Myself, I rather have a doctor treat my mental symptom first and not just drug me and surgically start cutting because I feel and believe I should be an one legged disabled person.

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: CynConcepts

Exactly, it's not even an argument.

Would you agree then that transgender is a psychological construct and should be treated as such?

As I posted earlier, children should be taught that masculinity and femininity have varying levels of nature and personality traits. These can vary greatly whether you are male or female. Acceptance that you are what you are, is honesty and truth. No meds is needed, no surgery, no reason to not accept individuals as is.

Everyone, especially those who vary on the extreme gender variant ends would be less confused.

Excellent response but to simplify, you agree that it's not physiological and shouldn't be treated as such.

You could have just said yes, i've had some beer.

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

So you think the NHS should pay for hormone treatment and surgery to appease someone who is delusional?

I agree they need medical help but not feeding their inability to accept the body they were born with.

If i wanted to transition into a dog, should the NHS be responsible and start genetic research into growing me a tail?

As I said I think what is best should be decided by medical professionals who have actually examined the person and the person themselves.

That seems a better method than anonymous online posters on a conspiracy web site deciding.

You mean those who can ensure a continuous income from counseling, prescriptions, surgeries, kickbacks, etcetera ? I think I would rather trust in the real scientists of biology. Who reach their conclusions by actual scientific data and long-term studies.

Since the original post was in regard the NHS you might want to understand how NHS doctors get paid before making such an ill informed post.

There are many doctors and psychologists who say Transgenderism is a 'mental' symptom and surgery and meds are not needed nor helpful.

Link to google search

There are pages and pages of links to show that there is a great divide in the professional fields.

There is divide over lots treatments for lots of conditions and what us the best option for one case may not be in another.

Again why the decision is best made by medical professionals who are actually examining the patient.

Unless you also think you some how know better based on a Google search?

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

If you think we should be medicating and mutilating children because they are confused about their birth gender to appease their needs and wants then we have no common ground to find.

Please provide this overwhelming evidence you speak of as i'd like to see it. Any studies i have read suggest transitioning has no positive effects on the condition as the massively high level of suicide and depression within the community remains stable regardless of the treatments currently offered.

Basically the medication and surgery doesn't work, so i think your talking out of your ass.

Where did I use the phrase overwhelming evidence?

What speciality is your medical degree in?

I assume you have a good one in order to be able to diagnose the best treatment for people you have never examined over the internet?

My degree is a BSc Computer Science. My wife is a clinical psychologist with a BSc (Hons) Clinical Psychology.

We don't agree on much but on this particular topic she fully supports my position.

What is your educational background?

Irrelevant since I am not the one that thinks I know better than medical professionals who are actually treating transgender people.

I don't think i know better, the research i have done suggests the evidence is contrary to your viewpoint on the subject.

I'm sat next to someone who has spent the last 10 years treating psychological conditions, if you have any particular questions i'm sure she would be happy to help (as soon as she's finished making the family roast). Just so i don't get the lazy chauvinist pig claim thrown at me i am responsible for the washing up afterward as i can't cook to save myself. We are both happy with the deal.

She's of the informed opinion that transgender people who are uncomfortable with their birth sex are better served with psychological help. She would say that i suppose considering it pays the bills.

Some people might be better served by physiological treatment. Others by gender reassignment.

Most psychologists don't tend to diagnose patients they have never met.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ScepticScot
a reply to: Artemis12

Okay, it's all bullocks.
----------------------------------

For those who want to know the truth, don't take my word for it or anyone's word for it. Never get all your information in one place. And always do your own due diligence.

It's known as "gender affirmation" treatment, under an "informed consent" model of treatment, wherein a patient can decline mental health services/counseling/diagnosis of gender dysphoria, etc. Puberty blockers are recommended based upon "Tanner Stages," basically pubertal development as opposed to chronological age.

It's easy enough to look up some of the gender clinics around the country, and go to their websites and see when they recommend starting puberty blockers.

Check out "WPATH", the "Endocrine Society", "Mermaids", "Tavistock"... find out from them if and when they recommend puberty blockers for kids.

Also check out "Transgendertrend," "4th Wave Now," and "Pique Resilience Project" to hear the critical side from those who are living this nightmare, including girls who have detransitioned and what they have to say about their experience, and parents who are being threatened in various ways. Find out the harm being done to kids.

Google some of those words and terms and you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know.

Because everything you read on the internet is true...

How about actually providing some real proof of you claims. Not wild claims from trans hate sites.

Let's start with your claim that schools are providing gender realignment without parents knowledge.

not sure about knowledge, but it's so nice of you to omit the consent part, right? because if they know, it doesn't matter if they have anything to say, right?

www.education.vic.gov.au...
www.dailywire.com...

More bollocks scaremongering. Did you actually read through the first link you provided?

It discusses allowing students who are mature enough to make decisions where no agreement can be reached with parents.

Do you really think, like your second link claims, that means schools providing gender reassignment to 6 year olds?

oh, i did read.

did you?

A principal may deem a student to be a mature minor for some decisions and not for others. For example, a principal may deem a student to be a mature minor for the purpose of participating in a Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Intersex (LGBTI) support group at school, or attend a sex education class. In these circumstances, the principal may decide that the student may choose to participate on their own behalf without parent consent. This does not automatically mean that the school would deem the student a mature minor for any other aspect of their education or welfare.

www.education.vic.gov.au...

i'm not saying i agree 100% with the second article, but it's kinda obvious they DO consider throwing parent consent out of the window while the kid/teen doesn't really know what they're doing.

now, don't get me wrong. when a teen is 100% sure, out of their own will and not because (s)he was brainwashed at school, that transition is what (s)he needs, then yeah, the sooner the better, and if that's against parents, so be it. IF (S)HE IS 100% SURE. also, a TEEN, i would say age of consent could be a reasonable line.

but what i have a problem with, and what others have a problem with, is indoctrinating kids that THIS IS THE NORM.

IT IS F..KING NOT.

this is a very, VERY vocal MINORITY, and as such MINORITY - extreme minority, i would dare to say - it should have NO RIGHT to influence the education of the MAJORITY.

this isn't about this or that -phobia, as some would like to present it. no. no normal person should be against other person's free will, as long as exercising said free will doesn't harm anyone. you're gay? trans? it's your life and your body, you're a human being and deserve the same love everyone else does.

it's all about those attempts at swaying those outside of LGBT community to become one of them - you may claim it's ridiculous, but i saw "try it" post at the first page of this thread already - and THAT'S ridiculous. it stops being funny though when such a miniscule minority tries to influence the education of ALL kids. that is just WRONG and that's one of the reasons there's a talk about some sort of agenda.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

So you think the NHS should pay for hormone treatment and surgery to appease someone who is delusional?

I agree they need medical help but not feeding their inability to accept the body they were born with.

If i wanted to transition into a dog, should the NHS be responsible and start genetic research into growing me a tail?

As I said I think what is best should be decided by medical professionals who have actually examined the person and the person themselves.

That seems a better method than anonymous online posters on a conspiracy web site deciding.

You mean those who can ensure a continuous income from counseling, prescriptions, surgeries, kickbacks, etcetera ? I think I would rather trust in the real scientists of biology. Who reach their conclusions by actual scientific data and long-term studies.

Since the original post was in regard the NHS you might want to understand how NHS doctors get paid before making such an ill informed post.

There are many doctors and psychologists who say Transgenderism is a 'mental' symptom and surgery and meds are not needed nor helpful.

Link to google search

There are pages and pages of links to show that there is a great divide in the professional fields.

There is divide over lots treatments for lots of conditions and what us the best option for one case may not be in another.

Again why the decision is best made by medical professionals who are actually examining the patient.

Unless you also think you some how know better based on a Google search?

If you are not a physician or psychologist currently or in the past treated a transgender patient, then I would say you have obviously shown your own biased ignorance in this debate. Since you believe your opinion holds more weight than others.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
a reply to: jedi_hamster

that article is such ridiculous hyperbole
"SIX YEAR OLDS WILL TRANSITION WITHOUT THEIR PARENTS KNOWLEDGE"

> oh wait they don't actually address the ages, so let's assume it's the youngest there

> oh wait they're talking about extreme extenuating circumstances where mediation with parents fails, so let's just say they'll transition any child without telling their parents what's a little fact smudging between pals


for what it's worth, the process to determine if one is a "mature minor" is a long, excruciating, and exacting one. I had a friend in high school who had to go through it because it was dangerous for her to live at home and she needed to get her own place at 16 and let me tell you, there were months of intensive talks and scrutiny and trying to make things work and there were legions of counsellors involved. i can't see the process being any less exacting in cases of trans kids.

you can't or you don't want to?

it all depends on local law and people enforcing that law - local politicians, schools and so on. what happened to you or your friends, doesn't have to be the norm, especially since years have passed. things change, not always for the better.

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

So you think the NHS should pay for hormone treatment and surgery to appease someone who is delusional?

I agree they need medical help but not feeding their inability to accept the body they were born with.

If i wanted to transition into a dog, should the NHS be responsible and start genetic research into growing me a tail?

As I said I think what is best should be decided by medical professionals who have actually examined the person and the person themselves.

That seems a better method than anonymous online posters on a conspiracy web site deciding.

You mean those who can ensure a continuous income from counseling, prescriptions, surgeries, kickbacks, etcetera ? I think I would rather trust in the real scientists of biology. Who reach their conclusions by actual scientific data and long-term studies.

Since the original post was in regard the NHS you might want to understand how NHS doctors get paid before making such an ill informed post.

There are many doctors and psychologists who say Transgenderism is a 'mental' symptom and surgery and meds are not needed nor helpful.

Link to google search

There are pages and pages of links to show that there is a great divide in the professional fields.

There is divide over lots treatments for lots of conditions and what us the best option for one case may not be in another.

Again why the decision is best made by medical professionals who are actually examining the patient.

Unless you also think you some how know better based on a Google search?

If you are not a physician or psychologist currently or in the past treated a transgender patient, then I would say you have obviously shown your own biased ignorance in this debate. Since you believe your opinion holds more weight than others.

I have said, maybe 4 times now, that I believe that medical decisions should be made by medical professionals who have actually examined the patient.

You and some other internet experts on here seem to think you can recommend treatment for people you have never even met.

I would therefore respectfully suggest you are talking out your arse.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

If you think we should be medicating and mutilating children because they are confused about their birth gender to appease their needs and wants then we have no common ground to find.

Please provide this overwhelming evidence you speak of as i'd like to see it. Any studies i have read suggest transitioning has no positive effects on the condition as the massively high level of suicide and depression within the community remains stable regardless of the treatments currently offered.

Basically the medication and surgery doesn't work, so i think your talking out of your ass.

Where did I use the phrase overwhelming evidence?

What speciality is your medical degree in?

I assume you have a good one in order to be able to diagnose the best treatment for people you have never examined over the internet?

My degree is a BSc Computer Science. My wife is a clinical psychologist with a BSc (Hons) Clinical Psychology.

We don't agree on much but on this particular topic she fully supports my position.

What is your educational background?

Irrelevant since I am not the one that thinks I know better than medical professionals who are actually treating transgender people.

I don't think i know better, the research i have done suggests the evidence is contrary to your viewpoint on the subject.

I'm sat next to someone who has spent the last 10 years treating psychological conditions, if you have any particular questions i'm sure she would be happy to help (as soon as she's finished making the family roast). Just so i don't get the lazy chauvinist pig claim thrown at me i am responsible for the washing up afterward as i can't cook to save myself. We are both happy with the deal.

She's of the informed opinion that transgender people who are uncomfortable with their birth sex are better served with psychological help. She would say that i suppose considering it pays the bills.

Some people might be better served by physiological treatment. Others by gender reassignment.

Most psychologists don't tend to diagnose patients they have never met.

No, she is basing opinion on the experience of the transgender patients that she has met. Funnily enough they were referred to her for diagnosis, i wonder why.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

So you think the NHS should pay for hormone treatment and surgery to appease someone who is delusional?

I agree they need medical help but not feeding their inability to accept the body they were born with.

If i wanted to transition into a dog, should the NHS be responsible and start genetic research into growing me a tail?

As I said I think what is best should be decided by medical professionals who have actually examined the person and the person themselves.

That seems a better method than anonymous online posters on a conspiracy web site deciding.

You mean those who can ensure a continuous income from counseling, prescriptions, surgeries, kickbacks, etcetera ? I think I would rather trust in the real scientists of biology. Who reach their conclusions by actual scientific data and long-term studies.

Since the original post was in regard the NHS you might want to understand how NHS doctors get paid before making such an ill informed post.

There are many doctors and psychologists who say Transgenderism is a 'mental' symptom and surgery and meds are not needed nor helpful.

Link to google search

There are pages and pages of links to show that there is a great divide in the professional fields.

There is divide over lots treatments for lots of conditions and what us the best option for one case may not be in another.

Again why the decision is best made by medical professionals who are actually examining the patient.

Unless you also think you some how know better based on a Google search?

If you are not a physician or psychologist currently or in the past treated a transgender patient, then I would say you have obviously shown your own biased ignorance in this debate. Since you believe your opinion holds more weight than others.

I have said, maybe 4 times now, that I believe that medical decisions should be made by medical professionals who have actually examined the patient.

You and some other internet experts on here seem to think you can recommend treatment for people you have never even met.

I would therefore respectfully suggest you are talking out your arse.

I sourced a google link packed full of links for you to read from real doctors and psychologists who are or have actually treated transgender patients. So, no I am actually researching and trying to deny ignorance.

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ScepticScot
a reply to: Artemis12

Okay, it's all bullocks.
----------------------------------

For those who want to know the truth, don't take my word for it or anyone's word for it. Never get all your information in one place. And always do your own due diligence.

It's known as "gender affirmation" treatment, under an "informed consent" model of treatment, wherein a patient can decline mental health services/counseling/diagnosis of gender dysphoria, etc. Puberty blockers are recommended based upon "Tanner Stages," basically pubertal development as opposed to chronological age.

It's easy enough to look up some of the gender clinics around the country, and go to their websites and see when they recommend starting puberty blockers.

Check out "WPATH", the "Endocrine Society", "Mermaids", "Tavistock"... find out from them if and when they recommend puberty blockers for kids.

Also check out "Transgendertrend," "4th Wave Now," and "Pique Resilience Project" to hear the critical side from those who are living this nightmare, including girls who have detransitioned and what they have to say about their experience, and parents who are being threatened in various ways. Find out the harm being done to kids.

Google some of those words and terms and you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know.

Because everything you read on the internet is true...

How about actually providing some real proof of you claims. Not wild claims from trans hate sites.

Let's start with your claim that schools are providing gender realignment without parents knowledge.

not sure about knowledge, but it's so nice of you to omit the consent part, right? because if they know, it doesn't matter if they have anything to say, right?

www.education.vic.gov.au...
www.dailywire.com...

More bollocks scaremongering. Did you actually read through the first link you provided?

It discusses allowing students who are mature enough to make decisions where no agreement can be reached with parents.

Do you really think, like your second link claims, that means schools providing gender reassignment to 6 year olds?

oh, i did read.

did you?

A principal may deem a student to be a mature minor for some decisions and not for others. For example, a principal may deem a student to be a mature minor for the purpose of participating in a Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Intersex (LGBTI) support group at school, or attend a sex education class. In these circumstances, the principal may decide that the student may choose to participate on their own behalf without parent consent. This does not automatically mean that the school would deem the student a mature minor for any other aspect of their education or welfare.

www.education.vic.gov.au...

i'm not saying i agree 100% with the second article, but it's kinda obvious they DO consider throwing parent consent out of the window while the kid/teen doesn't really know what they're doing.

now, don't get me wrong. when a teen is 100% sure, out of their own will and not because (s)he was brainwashed at school, that transition is what (s)he needs, then yeah, the sooner the better, and if that's against parents, so be it.

but what i have a problem with, and what others have a problem with, is indoctrinating kids that THIS IS THE NORM.

IT IS F..KING NOT.

this is a very, VERY vocal MINORITY, and as such MINORITY - extreme minority, i would dare to say - it should have NO RIGHT to influence the education of the MAJORITY.

this isn't about this or that -phobia, as some would like to present it. no. no normal person should be against other person's free will, as long as exercising said free will doesn't harm anyone. you're gay? trans? it's your life and your body, you're a human being and deserve the same love everyone else does.

it's all about those attempts at swaying those outside of LGBT community to become one of them - you may claim it's ridiculous, but i saw "try it" post in the first page of this thread already - and THAT'S ridiculous. it stops being funny though when such a miniscule minority tries to influence the education of ALL kids. that is just WRONG and that's one of the reasons there's a talk about some sort of agenda.

There is no mention of brainwashing or trying to influence the kid. Just the acknowledgement that some kids may be mature enough to know better than their parents what is best for their own lives

Also pretty important to understand that schools can't actually prescribe medical treatment.

As far as I can tell the only agenda is to be treated with a degree of respect and fairness.

Pretty sure the try it post was a joke rather than attempt a conversion. Also pretty sure you capable of understanding that.

Thanks for the input everyone but i'm bailing out of this thread.

I see no valid counter arguments or evidence despite my best attempts to coax it out of people.

"Feeding peoples delusions does not help them." That's exactly what i've just been told to say then get to the dinner table.

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

So you think the NHS should pay for hormone treatment and surgery to appease someone who is delusional?

I agree they need medical help but not feeding their inability to accept the body they were born with.

If i wanted to transition into a dog, should the NHS be responsible and start genetic research into growing me a tail?

As I said I think what is best should be decided by medical professionals who have actually examined the person and the person themselves.

That seems a better method than anonymous online posters on a conspiracy web site deciding.

You mean those who can ensure a continuous income from counseling, prescriptions, surgeries, kickbacks, etcetera ? I think I would rather trust in the real scientists of biology. Who reach their conclusions by actual scientific data and long-term studies.

Since the original post was in regard the NHS you might want to understand how NHS doctors get paid before making such an ill informed post.

There are many doctors and psychologists who say Transgenderism is a 'mental' symptom and surgery and meds are not needed nor helpful.

Link to google search

There are pages and pages of links to show that there is a great divide in the professional fields.

There is divide over lots treatments for lots of conditions and what us the best option for one case may not be in another.

Again why the decision is best made by medical professionals who are actually examining the patient.

Unless you also think you some how know better based on a Google search?

If you are not a physician or psychologist currently or in the past treated a transgender patient, then I would say you have obviously shown your own biased ignorance in this debate. Since you believe your opinion holds more weight than others.

I have said, maybe 4 times now, that I believe that medical decisions should be made by medical professionals who have actually examined the patient.

You and some other internet experts on here seem to think you can recommend treatment for people you have never even met.

I would therefore respectfully suggest you are talking out your arse.

I sourced a google link packed full of links for you to read from real doctors and psychologists who are or have actually treated transgender patients. So, no I am actually researching and trying to deny ignorance.

You Googled stuff.

Guess that does major you more qualified than the doctors actually treating transgender people.

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: Boadicea

I just had a thought on this 'conversion therapy' as you mentioned it in your thead. Isn't this what the LGBT community are trying to do to children now? 'convert them to be like them'? Conversion Therapy! They didn't like it or don't like it as they see it as something wrong to try to convert them into 'heterosexual' people but they themselves are doing the same thing to children 'converting them to be gay, trans or whatever...

And people have fallen for it...

Well, to answer your question, yes no kinda sorta maybe? It's all so convoluted and contrived, it's hard to keep up!

There are definitely those in the lesbian and gay communities who feel like lesbians girls are being trans'd to boys in order to make them "heterosexual." So they definitely feel this is a form of gay conversion therapy for them. But when it comes to the AGPs, the men who transition to women but remain attracted to women, they think it's a form of lesbian erasure.

The girls are more likely to actually transition and adopt the appearance and mannerisms of men full-time... 24/7... every time and all the time. AGPs are more likely to keep his male persona for business purposes, but only dress and appear as a woman for social purposes. And then there's all sorts of combinations and balances in between all of that.

So I really don't know exactly what's going on. It's all just so confusing.