Atlantis has been discovered?!

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
a reply to: Hanslune
Yippiii

Yep there was water there but it was fresh and not the sea.

So some of it is actually getting through.

So now you understand there was water there, lots of it. The rings were filled, rivers ran, and lakes were formed. The African Humid Period.

Now, it dried up about 5500-4000 or in that pall park. Would you like me to use Geologic terms?

So, all the river basins are still there, but filled with sand instead of water. Do you agree? Science backs that up, you agree with science?

So again, EVIDENCE.

Large abandon community on what appears to be a extinct river.. And appears to be mud brick construction.?

Now show me the information on this site that was visited by archeologists. This is really there so it must be evident of something. Its evidence someone lived there.

Island in extinct river with ancient ruins on them?

Ancient boat dock on a extinct river shore? Quadane.

The early history of Ouadane is uncertain

Ouadane

So this isn't evidence? Is it non sense?

Now you admit water was present. You admit water could have been present in those channels. Is it so hard to admit the possibility of people building on the shores of that water?

Best images you've given us yet! Clearly those lines demonstrate human construction. The boat harbor in an ancient riverbed is a nice touch.

originally posted by: AndyMayhew

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye

The early history of Ouadane is uncertain

Ouadane

So this isn't evidence? Is it non sense?

As with your various satellite images, it's evidence that people have been living in the region for hundreds of years.

Nothing more.

Whilst satellites may aid archaeology, they are not a substitute for it.

Sure, but how? Human settlements don't spring up if there's no water. A lucrative enough mine could lead to something where they bring their own water, perhaps.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye

Are you going to say the rock art proves nothing?

Depends are you trying to show that people live and lived there? That is already known and well established scientifically.

The thread is titled, 'Atlantis has been discovered?'

Humans living in an area is not proof they were Atlanteans as a matter of fact it is evidence that the place you are all excited about wasn't where Plato was talking about as he said it sank - this place ain't sanked or sunk. lol

There is one source for Atlantis:

This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits; and then, Solon, your country shone forth, in the excellence of her virtue and strength, among all mankind. She was pre-eminent in courage and military skill, and was the leader of the Hellenes. And when the rest fell off from her, being compelled to stand alone, after having undergone the very extremity of danger, she defeated and triumphed over the invaders, and preserved from slavery those who were not yet subjugated, and generously liberated all the rest of us who dwell within the pillars. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island.

So, does that match the millions of year old geological feature in Mauritania? Nope

classics.mit.edu...

It depends how you read it. When you're looking at myth, sometimes it includes their story about how geology happened.

They say the Atlantic was navigable back then? It probably was navigable in Plato's time.

Now you can't navigate it?

Maybe they believed Mauritania used to be part of the Atlantic ocean. Solon gets an exerpt of the local myth trying to explain how this vast desert has sea shells scattered about within it.

(It was part of the ocean off and on over geological time, but not during the existence of humans. So there probably are sea shells out there.)

have before remarked in speaking of the allotments of the gods, that they distributed the whole earth into portions differing in extent, and made for themselves temples and instituted sacrifices. And Poseidon, receiving for his lot the island of Atlantis, begat children by a mortal woman, and settled them in a part of the island, which I will describe. Looking towards the sea, but in the centre of the whole island, there was a plain which is said to have been the fairest of all plains and very fertile. Near the plain again, and also in the centre of the island at a distance of about fifty stadia, there was a mountain not very high on any side. In this mountain there dwelt one of the earth born primeval men of that country, whose name was Evenor, and he had a wife named Leucippe, and they had an only daughter who was called Cleito. The maiden had already reached womanhood, when her father and mother died; Poseidon fell in love with her and had intercourse with her, and breaking the ground, inclosed the hill in which she dwelt all round, making alternate zones of sea and land larger and smaller, encircling one another; there were two of land and three of water, which he turned as with a lathe, each having its circumference equidistant every way from the centre, so that no man could get to the island, for ships and voyages were not as yet. He himself, being a god, found no difficulty in making special arrangements for the centre island, bringing up two springs of water from beneath the earth, one of warm water and the other of cold, and making every variety of food to spring up abundantly from the soil. He also begat and brought up five pairs of twin male children; and dividing the island of Atlantis into ten portions, he gave to the first-born of the eldest pair his mother's dwelling and the surrounding allotment, which was the largest and best, and made him king over the rest; the others he made princes, and gave them rule over many men, and a large territory. And he named them all; the eldest, who was the first king, he named Atlas, and after him the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic. To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus. Of the second pair of twins he called one Ampheres, and the other Evaemon. To the elder of the third pair of twins he gave the name Mneseus, and Autochthon to the one who followed him. Of the fourth pair of twins he called the elder Elasippus, and the younger Mestor. And of the fifth pair he gave to the elder the name of Azaes, and to the younger that of Diaprepes. All these and their descendants for many generations were the inhabitants and rulers of divers islands in the open sea; and also, as has been already said, they held sway in our direction over the country within the Pillars as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia.

So, do you think Poseidon existed?

Poseidon was originally a god of rivers, who later became to rule over the sea.

He's basically their personification of a natural force. Anything a sea or river does is "Poseidon's" doing.

There appears to be a "Plato" cult that demand, demand, you interpret his words exactly as they wish for you to. Its almost as if its a religion, and Plato is the god of this religion, and these Enforcers are the priests. "The Church of Plato"

Now these "Priests" are not happy with me because I refuse to bow down to this religion, this god. I dare to challenge those words, and their interpretation of those words. They are incapable of flexibility in those words, or most specifically, locations. They also appear to want Plato's words, to remain a myth, fictional creation. And they absolutely refuse to allow anyone to consider that maybe, true, in some form.

The facts of the matter is these words are thousands of years old and translated from one language to the other a few times. So just at that there could be errors. Now to top that off, we only have half of the words Plato spoke. Some of the problems are that of the translators, who translated the words, but also incorporated their own personal opinion about the story. But don't be surprised when I suggest this religion, like all the others are really a form of, mind control. My opinion.

One of the major stumbling blocks is what was the nature of the Calamity. that lasted a day and night. How was the ringed city destroyed. Maybe the lost half of the story described it, maybe it didn't, we might never know. One thing for certain if it did show up some day, the church would call it a forgery, a hoax.

Plato described the City(Atlantis) as sinking into the ocean?

Atlantis, which we said was an island larger than Libya and Asia once upon a time, but now lies sunk by earthquakes and has created a barrier of impassable mud (109a) which prevents those who are sailing out from here to the ocean beyond from proceeding further.

English Translations of Plato's Atlantis dialogues

“But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.”

Quote of the Fortnight: Plato and the Atlantis Dialogues

But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island.

Timaeus By Plato

Words, lack of words, and missing words.

First passage. " but now lies sunk by earthquakes and has created a barrier of impassable mud (109a) which prevents those who are sailing out from here to the ocean beyond from proceeding further." Sunk, by earthquakes? Where did the ocean go? Impassable mud that prevents passage from "Here", to the ocean? Where are these words spoken from? Obviously not in the ocean. In this passage earthquakes are named as the destroyer?

Second Passage.

"But afterward there occurred violent earthquakes and floods"?? After, WHAT?? "and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.". In the depths of the sea. Sea, not ocean! We now know there was great amounts of water already in the area (AHP), and its not out of the realm of possibilities that there actually was a Inland sea.

Third Passage

"For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island. "sea in those parts". It is basically saying, since we are not on the ocean and some distance away, there actually was, a inland "Sea".

Not discussed in the dialogs, but there appears to have been a bay on the Atlantic coast north of Nouakchott which ran inland, but not connected to the inland sea directly. I saw one ancient map that annotated it but cant find it now. The odd part about this map was, it was oriented, to the present south. It was upside down. And if the flooding was as extensive as is denoted, again, it is not out of the realm of possibilities that this bay ultimatly filled, with mud.

The hardest part to explain is why ocean sand and salt deposits are excessive in the area, and the actual mechanization of the destruction. Ocean water did play a part in flooding the rings in massive amounts, that actually covered the rings, so, sunken, but reemerged over time as the area dried out. But in order to understand this "Other" subject areas must be understood. And they, are not touch upon in the "Religion". And, sadly, once you understand, there are no other options. Its the end of the (research) line.

One other side note:

"After that" = "she defeated and triumphed over the invaders, and preserved from slavery those who were not yet subjugated, and generously liberated all the rest of us who dwell within the pillars. " If I'm not mistaken, Atlantis was a slave allotment. Does the religion mention this?
The last country to abolish slavery is jailing its anti-slavery activists

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
There appears to be a "Plato" cult that demand, demand, you interpret his words exactly as they wish for you to. Its almost as if its a religion, and Plato is the god of this religion, and these Enforcers are the priests. "The Church of Plato"

Now these "Priests" are not happy with me because I refuse to bow down to this religion, this god. I dare to challenge those words, and their interpretation of those words. They are incapable of flexibility in those words, or most specifically, locations. They also appear to want Plato's words, to remain a myth, fictional creation. And they absolutely refuse to allow anyone to consider that maybe, true, in some form.

The facts of the matter is these words are thousands of years old and translated from one language to the other a few times. So just at that there could be errors. Now to top that off, we only have half of the words Plato spoke. Some of the problems are that of the translators, who translated the words, but also incorporated their own personal opinion about the story. But don't be surprised when I suggest this religion, like all the others are really a form of, mind control. My opinion.

One of the major stumbling blocks is what was the nature of the Calamity. that lasted a day and night. How was the ringed city destroyed. Maybe the lost half of the story described it, maybe it didn't, we might never know. One thing for certain if it did show up some day, the church would call it a forgery, a hoax.

Plato described the City(Atlantis) as sinking into the ocean?

Atlantis, which we said was an island larger than Libya and Asia once upon a time, but now lies sunk by earthquakes and has created a barrier of impassable mud (109a) which prevents those who are sailing out from here to the ocean beyond from proceeding further.

English Translations of Plato's Atlantis dialogues

“But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.”

Quote of the Fortnight: Plato and the Atlantis Dialogues

But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island.

Timaeus By Plato

Words, lack of words, and missing words.

First passage. " but now lies sunk by earthquakes and has created a barrier of impassable mud (109a) which prevents those who are sailing out from here to the ocean beyond from proceeding further." Sunk, by earthquakes? Where did the ocean go? Impassable mud that prevents passage from "Here", to the ocean? Where are these words spoken from? Obviously not in the ocean. In this passage earthquakes are named as the destroyer?

Second Passage.

"But afterward there occurred violent earthquakes and floods"?? After, WHAT?? "and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.". In the depths of the sea. Sea, not ocean! We now know there was great amounts of water already in the area (AHP), and its not out of the realm of possibilities that there actually was a Inland sea.

Third Passage

"For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island. "sea in those parts". It is basically saying, since we are not on the ocean and some distance away, there actually was, a inland "Sea".

Not discussed in the dialogs, but there appears to have been a bay on the Atlantic coast north of Nouakchott which ran inland, but not connected to the inland sea directly. I saw one ancient map that annotated it but cant find it now. The odd part about this map was, it was oriented, to the present south. It was upside down. And if the flooding was as extensive as is denoted, again, it is not out of the realm of possibilities that this bay ultimatly filled, with mud.

The hardest part to explain is why ocean sand and salt deposits are excessive in the area, and the actual mechanization of the destruction. Ocean water did play a part in flooding the rings in massive amounts, that actually covered the rings, so, sunken, but reemerged over time as the area dried out. But in order to understand this "Other" subject areas must be understood. And they, are not touch upon in the "Religion". And, sadly, once you understand, there are no other options. Its the end of the (research) line.

One other side note:

"After that" = "she defeated and triumphed over the invaders, and preserved from slavery those who were not yet subjugated, and generously liberated all the rest of us who dwell within the pillars. " If I'm not mistaken, Atlantis was a slave allotment. Does the religion mention this?
The last country to abolish slavery is jailing its anti-slavery activists

did someone find the pillars of Hercules?

“There was an island in front of the 'Pillars of Hercules',” says Collina-Girard. Named Spartel, it lay to the west of the Strait of Gibraltar just as Plato described. The Strait was longer and narrower than today, and enclosed a harbour-like inland sea that Plato mentions as the setting for Atlantis.

www.newscientist.com...#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThere%20was%20an%20island%20in,a s%20the%20setting%20for%20Atlantis.

i also heard that doggerland was a contender for atlantis.

has anyone found any artifacts yet in those areas?
haven't they found Sodom and Gomorrah and even troy?

idk , until they find a coin or street sign or something. i'll wait to make my decision iif it was real or a myth.

sorry long thread and didn't get to alll links, sorry if my posts have been mentioned..

i just want to add that the mud could be from liquification of land from the earthquakes.

imagine being an atlantean that night, kicking back,on you terrace over looking the city. getting a buzz on. nice big steak on the grill, the wine is breathing.

new babe coming over in 15 mins, then the glasses start rattling.... city lights start going out.

lightning and thunder starts as the tremors get bigger and more violent. your Aphrodite statues fall into the pool.

talk about a buzz kill!

originally posted by: sarahvital
sorry long thread and didn't get to alll links, sorry if my posts have been mentioned..

i just want to add that the mud could be from liquification of land from the earthquakes.

imagine being an atlantean that night, kicking back,on you terrace over looking the city. getting a buzz on. nice big steak on the grill, the wine is breathing.

new babe coming over in 15 mins, then the glasses start rattling.... city lights start going out.

lightning and thunder starts as the tremors get bigger and more violent. your Aphrodite statues fall into the pool.

talk about a buzz kill!

Your not going to find road signs, but you do find roads.

Plato should not be taken as "biblical". We already know half the story is missing. There is a old Khazarian proverb that is on target. "a half truth, is a whole lie".

As the Archeological community, in essence, refuse to investigate the region it is up to us, the people, to pick up the load, sort of speaking.

There is a very strong suspicion that structures lay buried in the second ring, that follow the radius of the ring. If that's true then in reality you are looking at the description of Plato's "Ringed City". Now some folks have embellished the story and added lots of things to it. But keep in the back of your mind, this is a Prehistoric Community, just like the Flintstones. And if "Advanced Technology" was used, it was owned and operated by the gods themselves, not, the slaves. For that is all the people were to these ancient gods. Pg 26 for images of structures.

Don't expect to find modern day architecture in a Prehistoric community. The living quarters and temples of the central Island have been completely obliterated, but, the remains of large building blocks can be seen (whats left of them) in the flood run off area just south of the rings.

Good hunting.

a reply to: sarahvital

i just want to add that the mud could be from liquification of land from the earthquakes.

If you have ever noticed, that during earthquakes, things get shook up, destabilized. And if during that destabilization you hit structures with a massive flood, the chances are, structures that would have survive only the quake would not when hit with a flood, at the same time. It would kind of , at least, double the damages.

The same would be true for the soil getting all shook up, then, washed away by a flood.

Yes, I can see it

originally posted by: AndyMayhew

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
How do you "Date" a road?

By archaeology. Not by looking at modern satelite images (if you had some frm a few thousand years ago to compare with, that would be a different matter)

So now we possibly have a artistic, intelligent, structure building, road building, society. When that is, all the evidence is viewed, together, and confirmed.

Which we now has existed there for hundreds of years

And yes, we also know there were hunter gatherers living in the region during the AHP. However, there is exactly zero evidence of any kind to suggest that thousands of years ago they built cities, invaded Egypt and fought against Athens (long before either existed).

Meanwhile, the Richat structure is an ancient geological feature. One which looks deceptively impressive in false colour satellite images, but on the ground if barely recognisable. It's no more the remains of an ancient city than Loch Lomond is the remains of an ancient swimming pool built to teach haggis how to swim.

Yep that is reality but lets see how long he keeps trying to ignore the actual evidence while going on and on about how thousands and thousands of years after the 'date' of fictional Atlantis that his great belief that people living there is evidence of Atlantis - a place that in the story - sank.. Just be hilarious.

originally posted by: sarahvital
sorry long thread and didn't get to alll links, sorry if my posts have been mentioned..

i just want to add that the mud could be from liquification of land from the earthquakes.

imagine being an atlantean that night, kicking back,on you terrace over looking the city. getting a buzz on. nice big steak on the grill, the wine is breathing.

new babe coming over in 15 mins, then the glasses start rattling.... city lights start going out.

lightning and thunder starts as the tremors get bigger and more violent. your Aphrodite statues fall into the pool.

talk about a buzz kill!

"Lights"? Plato described a place with a technology equal to his own Athens in the 4th century BC. They had chariots and sailing ships, no light or any 'advanced' technology. I would recommend you read Plato's story instead of relying on Youtube videos.

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
As the Archeological community, in essence, refuse to investigate the region it is up to us, the people, to pick up the load, sort of speaking.

They checked the area and found what they found - no sign of a massive civilization - that you don't like it is your personal problem. That site has also been checked by geologists - it ain't a city dude. Why don't you read the geologists?

Then you can scream they are all lying too! LOL

Here is one study: Accelerating the world's research.
Resolving the Richat enigma: Doming and hydrothermal karstification above an alkaline complex
Michel Jébrak

The Richat structure (Sahara, Mauritania) appears as a large dome at least 40 km in diameter within a Late Proterozoic to Ordovician sequence. Erosion has created circular cuestas represented by three nested rings dipping outward from the structure. The center of the structure consists of a limestone-dolomite shelf that encloses a kilometer-scale siliceous breccia and is intruded by basaltic ring dikes, kimberlitic intrusions, and alkaline volcanic rocks. Several hypotheses have been presented to explain the spectacular Richat structure and breccia, but their origin remains enigmatic. The breccia body is lenticular in shape and irregularly thins at its extremities to only a few meters. The breccia was created during karst dissolution and collapse. Internal sediments fill the centimeter- to meter-scale cavities. Alkaline enrichment and the presence of Cretaceous automorphous neoformed K-feldspar demonstrate the hydrothermal origin of these internal sediments and their contemporaneity with magmatism. A model is proposed in which doming and the production of hydrothermal fluids were instrumental in creating a favorable setting for dissolution. The circular Richat structure and its breccia core thus represent the superficial expression of a Cretaceous alkaline complex with an exceptionally well preserved hydrothermal karst infilling at its summit.

Will you read it? Of course not! how about this one?

www.planker.dk...

The ‘‘eye of Africa’’ (Richat dome, Mauritania): An isolated Cretaceous alkaline–hydrothermal complex

www.sciencedirect.com...

CONCLUSION The circular Richat structure appears to be the superficial expres- sion of a buried alkaline complex of Cretaceous age that was affected by cuesta-type erosion. The breccia core is genetically related to plu- tonic activity, since doming and the production of hydrothermal fluids were instrumental in creating a favorable setting for dissolution. The resulting fluids were also responsible for subsequent silicification and hydrothermal infilling. To the best of our knowledge, karst collapse phenomena at the summit of an alkaline complex are unique, but may be more frequent than previously believed

See how nice I am giving you more things to not read and dismiss and deny. What a guy hey!

Myth:
a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.
"ancient Celtic myths"

Atlantis isn't a myth its a fictional story and we know who wrote about it.....


This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits; and then, Solon, your country shone forth, in the excellence of her virtue and strength, among all mankind. She was pre-eminent in courage and military skill, and was the leader of the Hellenes. And when the rest fell off from her, being compelled to stand alone, after having undergone the very extremity of danger, she defeated and triumphed over the invaders, and preserved from slavery those who were not yet subjugated, and generously liberated all the rest of us who dwell within the pillars. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island.

So, does that match the millions of year old geological feature in Mauritania? Nope



This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles;

So, does that match the millions of year old geological feature in Mauritania? Nope

the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together,

Libya is what the Greeks called AFRICA, odd they are saying its larger than itself in some people's interpretations...Chuckle


and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean;

So, does that match the millions of year old geological feature in Mauritania? Nope


for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.

So, does that match the millions of year old geological feature in Mauritania? Nope

Stop trying to pretend you haven't read this part.

originally posted by: Hanslune




This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles;

Don't you find it interesting that Plato's story says it can't be navigated "now" (in his day)?

A shoal of mud? What shoal of mud ever blocked access to the Atlantic in historical times?


However, if Atlantis was a river city, or an island in the middle of a wide river or lake, instead of an oceanic island, then whatever obliterated it could possibly have filled the river up with silt and made it unnavigable for a while.

A legend that makes its way from Mauritania to Egypt to Greece is crossing several language barriers. Words like "river", "lake", "sea" and "ocean" can get mixed up.



As a culture progresses from river boating, to ocean boating, some of the words they used previously probably get repurposed. If the biggest body of water you have a word for is a lake, and then your people discover a sea, its quite possible you might invent a new word to describe a lake, and use the old word to describe a sea. But legends are often kept by rote memorization, and the tellers will reluctant to change the wording.

Poseidon was originally not an oceanic deity, but only a river and inland water deity. Which I think shows us an example of how a culture can repurpose concepts as its technology grows.

So, does that match the millions of year old geological feature in Mauritania? Nope

the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together,

Libya is what the Greeks called AFRICA, odd they are saying its larger than itself in some people's interpretations...Chuckle

It's only odd if you assume they had a modern understanding of geography.

and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean;

So, does that match the millions of year old geological feature in Mauritania? Nope

That part does make it sound like it was in the Atlantic. So long as we assume the Americas is the far continent.

for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.

Since the American continent stretches almost all the way from the Arctic to Antarctica, an ancient culture who discovered it might actually believe it forms a ring around the world. If you sailed from the East coast of Panema around the Horn of Africa, and over to the West coast of Panema, .... how would you know it was the same continent?

I think maybe you wouldn't. Ancient navigators could determine latitude, but not longitude.

A modern navigator would know they were in basically the same place they had left. But only a modern one.

(Especially if this is the ice age, and the Strait of Magellan were closed off.)

So, does that match the millions of year old geological feature in Mauritania? Nope

Stop trying to pretend you haven't read this part.

The part about the area being no longer navigable due to mud makes it sound like it isn't in the actual Atlantic.

But the "way to other islands" part makes it hard to imagine it being on a river.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Great OP. I started writing a new book a couple of weeks ago and wanted to use Atlantis as a starting point for the story that spans millennias of time but kind of glossed over the Atlantis chapter until I did some research on it. I am in the process of shifting the story to match the info from the OP and I am excited about it. The only issue is coming up with a plausible reason for the rapid land rise of that region.

Sorry if this is dated. The simple answer is, it never rose. Poseidon was known as a expert at "Water", or oceans and rivers. We now know there is a high probability that the area had rivers, lakes, and inland seas (African Humid Period). So if Poseidon was a expert, it is not out of the realm of possibilities that he understood the principles of water locks. Also from another writer he called the ringed city "The City of Locks".

All the raw materials to construct locks were readily available.

Hope that helps.

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

The part about the area being no longer navigable due to mud makes it sound like it isn't in the actual Atlantic.

One of the problems is there just isn't enough space to harbor 1000 ships in the rings. Now even if locks were being used, it probably was for specialized transport to the upper levels. Your not going to harbor on the upper level a navy of 1000 ships. It would take years to transport them by locks in those days. That means, the navy had to be closer to the ocean.

Been going over old maps that may reveal where the port was. Debating a second part to the thread.

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

As Harte explained in another thread Plato is the parent of western shadow theory at least if you want to score well on the tests. So if you are talking about Plato's cave than the Richat structure may have been the source of his inspiration. It could be visualized as the eagle eyed RA/Horus at some point in the shadow play of some early African explorers mind. The thing was in a very remote area of the desert by the time Plato wrote about it if that is true. There doesn't seem to be any traceable evidence that it was important. The shadow of a house fly can look like the mother of Edgar Allan Poe LOL, but if its not shared by the prisoners in Plato's cave.. At sunset it gets dark so fast in the insane asylum.

Edit to add:

This thread really helped me clean up my Xfiles mytharc notes for the "War of the Coprophages" episode.

I've got the toilet scene buried in a deeper grave marked "death of Herodotus now".

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous


Don't you find it interesting that Plato's story says it can't be navigated "now" (in his day)?

It wasn't but then it was a story and not real. In his time the Phoenicians and others were traveling in the Atlantic.

The Atlantic is a much rougher sea that the Med. However, his story was a political one so some of the side comments are not science

A shoal of mud? What shoal of mud ever blocked access to the Atlantic in historical times?

None its a story, he made it up.

However, if Atlantis was a river city, or an island in the middle of a wide river or lake, instead of an oceanic island, then whatever obliterated it could possibly have filled the river up with silt and made it unnavigable for a while.

Yes that would be great if he had said he put his fictional city inside a country instead of an island.

A legend that makes its way from Mauritania to Egypt to Greece is crossing several language barriers. Words like "river", "lake", "sea" and "ocean" can get mixed up.

..or the guy writing in int Attic Greek made it up there are no language mix ups

As a culture progresses from river boating, to ocean boating, some of the words they used previously probably get repurposed. If the biggest body of water you have a word for is a lake, and then your people discover a sea, its quite possible you might invent a new word to describe a lake, and use the old word to describe a sea. But legends are often kept by rote memorization, and the tellers will reluctant to change the wording.

Poseidon was originally not an oceanic deity, but only a river and inland water deity. Which I think shows us an example of how a culture can repurpose concepts as its technology grows.

When the writer of this story was creating it Poseidon was commonly considered a sea and water god

So, does that match the millions of year old geological feature in Mauritania? Nope

the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together,

Libya is what the Greeks called AFRICA, odd they are saying its larger than itself in some people's interpretations...Chuckle

It's only odd if you assume they had a modern understanding of geography.

Nope it means the writer was comparing a fictional island he made up to to the size of Africa and Asia - because it was an island and not part of Libya.

That part does make it sound like it was in the Atlantic. So long as we assume the Americas is the far continent.

Since the American continent stretches almost all the way from the Arctic to Antarctica, an ancient culture who discovered it might actually believe it forms a ring around the world. If you sailed from the East coast of Panema around the Horn of Africa, and over to the West coast of Panema, .... how would you know it was the same continent?

I think maybe you wouldn't. Ancient navigators could determine latitude, but not longitude.

A modern navigator would know they were in basically the same place they had left. But only a modern one.

(Especially if this is the ice age, and the Strait of Magellan were closed off.)

Why would the Drake strait be closed?

www.worldatlas.com...

originally posted by: fromunclexcommunicate
a reply to: All Seeing Eye

As Harte explained in another thread Plato is the parent of western shadow theory at least if you want to score well on the tests. So if you are talking about Plato's cave than the Richat structure may have been the source of his inspiration. It could be visualized as the eagle eyed RA/Horus at some point in the shadow play of some early African explorers mind. The thing was in a very remote area of the desert by the time Plato wrote about it if that is true. There doesn't seem to be any traceable evidence that it was important. The shadow of a house fly can look like the mother of Edgar Allan Poe LOL, but if its not shared by the prisoners in Plato's cave.. At sunset it gets dark so fast in the insane asylum.

Edit to add:

This thread really helped me clean up my Xfiles mytharc notes for the "War of the Coprophages" episode.

I've got the toilet scene buried in a deeper grave marked "death of Herodotus now".

Good theory but the size of geological structure prevents it from being viewed as a circle. On the ground it would have just seemed like a series of low ridges. Unremarkable.

lh6.googleusercontent.com...

lh3.googleusercontent.com...

We can only see it as circles from space or modern mapping.

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

The part about the area being no longer navigable due to mud makes it sound like it isn't in the actual Atlantic.

One of the problems is there just isn't enough space to harbor 1000 ships in the rings. Now even if locks were being used, it probably was for specialized transport to the upper levels. Your not going to harbor on the upper level a navy of 1000 ships. It would take years to transport them by locks in those days. That means, the navy had to be closer to the ocean.

Been going over old maps that may reveal where the port was. Debating a second part to the thread.

Your source that you believe also said they were triremes which has a specific meaning in Plato's time. Triremes are very specialized warships; built for one purpose, to ram and sink enemy ships - just who in the center of Africa would these have been used against? Additionally you might want to look up ship anchors and how those tell us a great deal about maritime trade in the Med and elsewhere See this book (that is if you really want to understand what you are talking about)

www.amazon.com...

a reply to: Hanslune

It is also possible that neither of your two photos are the correct vantage point, or during the African Humid Period vegetation was more prevalent in the ring valleys where the fresh water fossils were found.

originally posted by: fromunclexcommunicate
a reply to: Hanslune

It is also possible that neither of your two photos are the correct vantage point, or during the African Humid Period vegetation was more prevalent in the ring valleys where the fresh water fossils were found.

Nope, you keep thinking it can be seen from the ground - how big is it again? 40 kilometres (25 mi) in diameter.

You cannot see that far a 6 foot tall person can see just over 3 miles. You cannot visualize it from the ground level to realize it is circular. Not until flight - if we can there should be images - are there? Where?

As noted in the geology papersits millions of years old and not a man made structure - UNLESS all the geologists are also in on the conspiracy.