The Importance of Belief

originally posted by: Sly1one
a reply to: eurhythmic

... "what fuels belief?" seems to be a more pertinent question.

...

What fuels beliefs? Whata fools beliefs? What a fool believes?



Just kidding. Liked your post, and was glad that it led to one of your most excellent, older threads.

originally posted by: glend
But what is belief?

Our brains have a bios called DNA that controls the basic operation of bodies by ensuring we breath, eat, excrete and procreate. Those urges create other urges - if we are strong or rich, good looking, we have greater chance to procreate and fulfill the programming in DNA.

On top of that, our brains uses its neural network to index all stimulus from our senses. And from that indexed information make weighted judgements using logic that allows us to travel to moon and beyond.

People don't believe in religion. They have faith in religion. Faith that those directly involved in the religion have told the truth.

How is religion not belief? Faith isn't belief?

Do we not believe that we have brains, DNA, and anything else?

How is any of it, anything more that merely belief?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: eurhythmic

I think you will enjoy this talk by Osho... It is called:
I do not believe in believing.

Hi IINA.
Brilliant post, as usual, or is that just my belief?

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: incoserv

Well the sky stays blue if I know why or not doesn't change that. I never said I know everything and I don't feel the need to.
That doesn't mean I have to believe it's blue, it's a fact because everybody agrees it is the way we see it everyday.

Ooops. It's not a fact according to the link you provided in a later post.
So which is it?

It's obvious and common sense. But here an explanation Why it is a fact. plus I should have known some pedantic wanna be smarty pants would challenge it so I should have said "Berlin is the capital of Germany" maybe, my bad.
Still not a belief and everybody who isn't trying to be annoying can know what I meant.
But since you didn't get what I said with "it takes strength to live with things you can't know" and somehow seem to be under the impression that means I think I know everything I'm not surprised....

Are you holding some kind of a belief, that you some kind of awesome, or something, so that you can just always be condescending and bitchy to others all of the time?

Remember now why am not usually reading your posts and threads.

Sorry to have bothered you.
Have a nice day.

a reply to: Nothin

Oops....
What answer did you expect? "Oh yes you are right master I'm an idiot oh superior being, thanks for pointing it out to me, you really taught me a lesson"
?
Something like that?
Funny thing how people respond in the same way you talk to them, not?

a reply to: Nothin

"How is religion not belief? Faith isn't belief? "

Belief is a product of the mind. Faith is a product of the spirit. The mind is dualitistic whereas spiritality is non-dualistic. The difference is yin and yang. It can be seen as one but the forces are in direct opposition to one another.

Belief comes from knowing whereas religion comes from unknowing.

“To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”
--St. Thomas Aquinas

a reply to: glend

Thanks for your reply.

..."...Belief is a product of the mind..."...
Is that a fact? Or another belief? Am personally not convinced.

..."...Faith is a product of the spirit..."...
Is that a fact? Or another belief? Am personally not convinced.

..."...The mind is dualitistic whereas spiritality is non-dualistic..."...
Is that a fact? Or another belief? Am personally not convinced.


..."...The difference is yin and yang. It can be seen as one but the forces are in direct opposition to one another..."...
Is that a fact? Or another belief? Am personally not convinced.

..."...Belief comes from knowing whereas religion comes from unknowing..."...
Is that a fact? Or another belief? Am personally not convinced.

Sorry for the repetition, LoL. But you get the idea, right?
We are questioning everything, no?
If we question everything: all statements and claims, must they not be questioned?

a reply to: Peeple

No, sorry.
Sorry to have engaged you. It was my mistake, and it is me whom is wrong.

a reply to: eurhythmic

“ I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by False Beliefs.”



Wonder is Unique to the Individual Human , what can " Move " Some in a Positive Light , Leads others to Rebellion ....

a reply to: Nothin

"If we question everything: all statements and claims, must they not be questioned?"

Into what, Truth? Truth is relative to the observer. Its a conclusion based on other truths that may be right or wrong. So you continually treading in quagmire, Never really getting anywhere.

Our minds on this level of duality will index truths depending on what it observes. In Buddhism they say, when we call a bird a bird, we will never see a bird ever again. That's because our brain indexes the characteristics of the bird so it doesn't have to continually record new stimuli from our senses each time it see's a bird, It does that for expediency. It sacrifices accuracy so it can operate in a world full of constant stimuli.

if you make a conclusion on stimuli from the sensory organs that might be called a belief.
If you don't make a conclusion on stimuli from the sensory organs that might be called a faith.

a reply to: Nothin

dup

I only believe that there is a spiritual side to this life and that I have not found it.

If there is a god that answers prayer it doesn't matter what you ask for you'll get exactly what he wants you to have and it will be in his timing. It might be 10 years late or never, more than likely never.
I know this based on years of experience.
Its much more popular to go with the flow and have a main stream belief system. I can accept what I know and live happily with it but many can not.

For instance I don't need a savior and I never needed one. I don't want a savior. I don't want to need a savior. The entire idea or concept of that rubs me the wrong way. I'm just here until I die and then I'll pass to the spiritual side and that is all. Like hunters and gatherers that lived before religions were created. They lived and did their best to survive until they passed on with no savior. I may be back here again or maybe not. Maybe I lived here in another life a very very long time ago before there was religion. If that were true it might help others to understand or at least try to grasp where I come from with my lack of belief in main stream religions.

One of the hardest things for me to grasp as a young christian was the idea that I needed a savior.
Why? I'm just here. I didn't ask to be here I just am here. You put me here God, whoever, whatever you are. Why do I need a savior? The answer is ....I don't!!

How do I know that?

Tis I... Pinocchio The Great!
Of Acacia Wood Was I Fashioned, With Sh!ttim For My Thoughts...
Adorned In Fine Gold! BUT! I Am Not The Ark Of The Covenant!
Humph!

It Is Easy To Know That "Conscience Has Consequence!"...
Begin...

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Nothin

"If we question everything: all statements and claims, must they not be questioned?"

Into what, Truth? Truth is relative to the observer. Its a conclusion based on other truths that may be right or wrong. So you continually treading in quagmire, Never really getting anywhere.

Our minds on this level of duality will index truths depending on what it observes. In Buddhism they say, when we call a bird a bird, we will never see a bird ever again. That's because our brain indexes the characteristics of the bird so it doesn't have to continually record new stimuli from our senses each time it see's a bird, It does that for expediency. It sacrifices accuracy so it can operate in a world full of constant stimuli.

if you make a conclusion on stimuli from the sensory organs that might be called a belief.
If you don't make a conclusion on stimuli from the sensory organs that might be called a faith.

Into where we get to the bottom of beliefs. Seems like faith is usually a product of beliefs, but perhaps you are seeing it a bit differently.

Not interested in the small 't' truth of personal experience. That still involves opinion and interpretation.
Looking deeper.
Beyond conclusions, and all manner of interpretation.

What did you think of the description of the 'cogito' from the posted video?

a reply to: Nothin

Descartes "I think, therefore I am" assumes fundamental being is derived from the thinking mind. That was 3000+ years after Hindu philosophers went deeper than the thinking mind itself to absolute stillness. Yet the fundamental "I AM" never extinguished. You can explore that yourself in deep meditation as I have done.

Then there is the Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser Experiment that tells us that the act of knowing can influence the behaviour of particles.

"I think, therefore I am" is a belief you cannot prove. But it is something people want to believe.

a reply to: glend

Is there really a thinker doing thought?
Or does thought simply happen?

Isn't the word 'I' just a thought that makes believe that there is some thing separate?

a reply to: Itisnowagain
Thought would suggest thought exists and if you are not separate from the veil are you really an elite, divine being?
That separation is what separates us from the creatures that inhabit the earth bathing in their own filth after all

any able bodied being thinks and does, a disabled being thinks then dismisses it as just a thought because they lack the physical ability to do what they think, we are separate and one, I enjoy being one of the ones as if I was just playing by myself it would get boring fast its like the bullies that pick on the nerdy kids nd say why are you hitting yourself why are you hitting yourself, say haha....they say haha....why are you laughing at yourself....know what I mean? lol

a reply to: 316stee420

Thought appears to exist and disappears...... does the aware space in which thought appears and disappears ever appear or disappear?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

space disappears without observation and then reappears with observation......