A Question. . . Who has changed their mind on the subject of abortion?

a reply to: TheRedneck

No I refuted the idea that just because mommy and daddy are human doesn't assure that a baby the have won't have a DNA strain that deviates far enough from what we consider to be a new species.
Either by genetic manipulation or just freak of nature assisted by our careless use of radioactive materials and toxins.
I mentioned the Cyclops that are being born in Iraq since the and the jellyfish babies of the Marshall islands. But I also pointed out the genetic rolling of the dice may produce some amazing results and a species of hominids might join us to share the earth.
Then there is the genetic manipulation bit. Where companies are screwing around creating everything from men for our military built for the job to specially designed workers for whatever task is needed. And of course alot of mistakes along theway.
My objection didn't have as much to do with abortion as it did just to open up people's minds to the possibility that the day is coming when human is no longer human.
When our creation is bought and sold like property or placed in camp's where they can be forgotten about. Murdered if they get out of line or show abilities that cause fear in their human creator.
A hundred maybe a couple hundred of years man will be the creator.
As much as those on the right claim to want to protect the fetus I fear they would be the first ones to protect the corporate interests, kill them if they feel the least bit threatened, or round them up to get them out of your sight. Chose for some who they are allowed to mate with while prohibiting other to mate at all.

a reply to: dawnstar

Additionally, with autism rates continually rising (even after mercury was removed from vaccines) and nobody able to find out why and the governments failing to keep up with any real and effective assistance. What you describe as non-human may be the future of the intellectually handicapped becoming the norm for humanity.

originally posted by: LDragonFire
Have you all ever thought your change has been manipulated by the media you consume?

Aren't you manipulated by the media you consume as well?

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: TheRedneck
As much as those on the right claim to want to protect the fetus I fear they would be the first ones to protect the corporate interests, kill them if they feel the least bit threatened, or round them up to get them out of your sight. Chose for some who they are allowed to mate with while prohibiting other to mate at all.

It's been my experience that no current main stream ideology holds the corner on "fear of the other" and the desire to control or remove those that are different.

They just have different targets.

One thing that is ironic is the right-wing asking for big government intervention into someone's personal choice, while the left demands they stay away. Can't someone oppose abortion without demanding the government meddle in someone's personal choice?

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: olaru12
I find it ironic that those that want smaller, less intrusive government want the state to step in and make choices for women.

still going with...safe, legal and rare! And morning after pills at the 7/11 between the coffee and donuts.

To me it has nothing to do with equal and fair government for the people, it has to do with religious morals vs. human rights (namely women's rights).

You know. I'm pretty sure neither you nor I asked for our parents to make us, but they did. Now do you think either of us, once here, wanted our mothers to simply decide that we were a grievous mistake and simply end us because we were inconvenient to them?

At what point does anyone simply arbitrarily get to decide that another human being is "inconvenient" and therefore does not get to live anymore?

If a baby is/will be that inconvenient to you, don't you think that should have entered your thought process before certain other things entered your body?

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: olaru12
I find it ironic that those that want smaller, less intrusive government want the state to step in and make choices for women.

still going with...safe, legal and rare! And morning after pills at the 7/11 between the coffee and donuts.

To me it has nothing to do with equal and fair government for the people, it has to do with religious morals vs. human rights (namely women's rights).

You know. I'm pretty sure neither you nor I asked for our parents to make us, but they did. Now do you think either of us, once here, wanted our mothers to simply decide that we were a grievous mistake and simply end us because we were inconvenient to them?

At what point does anyone simply arbitrarily get to decide that another human being is "inconvenient" and therefore does not get to live anymore?

If a baby is/will be that inconvenient to you, don't you think that should have entered your thought process before certain other things entered your body?

Hey, stuff happens and life is very hard without resources. The majority of women asking for abortions already have several children. Who are we to decide that they must endure even more hardship?

On the other hand, why isn't government offering incentives and resources and financial aid to help women in situations of hardship to be able to welcome another child into their world? Look what Sweden's government offers.

sweden.se...

a reply to: InTheLight

Well don't forget those who seem to focus on just one area like music and become exceptional at it at the expense of so many other things. But I don't think there is any doubt in anyone's mind that they are human.

But I am thinking about more drastic changes. I mean what if the myths of giants, Cyclops, minataurs, and mermaids are more than just myths. What if they are portions of stories that were handed down to us from the last time conditions changed drastically on earth and mother nature has to scramble to rearrange DNA strains to find combinations that could survive in the new conditions?
I mean we have cyclop babies in Iraq now. Don't know if any survived but they were birthed.

Theredneck hit the nail on the head, kids nowadays are using abortion as a get out of jail free card. They do not want to take responsibility for their actions. You have sex and you run the risk of becoming a parent end of the story. While I do think it should be legal for women that get raped and or get pregnant out of sexual abuse or if having the child would kill the mother then let her make that choice. For all the people who are running around and having sex without protection and refuse to not have sex should not get that get out of free jail card. There are tons of people in this world who can not have a child due to medical reasons, If you recklessly have sex and get pregnant then you should be responsible for your actions and if for some reason you end up pregnant you can always offer the child for adoption to needy families who can not have one on their own. Should you be allowed to just end a pregnancy if you so choose to? The bigger question is if you were adult enough to make the decision to have sex you need to be adult enough to deal with the actions that come from having sex. (Don't want to get pregnant? Don't have sex it is not that hard.)

originally posted by: TheSteppenwolf
One thing that is ironic is the right-wing asking for big government intervention into someone's personal choice, while the left demands they stay away. Can't someone oppose abortion without demanding the government meddle in someone's personal choice?

Laws and regulations against murder aren't really a small vs big government issue.

a reply to: InTheLight

And that's even grosser to me.

"Sorry, Sam, but I aborted your little brother. You got lucky though. You were first and I didn't know then how hard it would be to have a baby, so I kept you instead of killing you ..."

I still think that abortion of fetus that developed ability to feel pain should be banned however what changed in my thinking is that I was never a pregnant woman and can't really judge them.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
It gets talked about a lot.

Now even more so with the looming threat of a Supreme Court revisit of this epic ruling.

I've certainly shared my opinion on the subject.

But this thread isn't about my opinion. This is more exploring the idea that, if minds haven't changed, then where does this lead us?

www.pewforum.org...

Above is a link to a Pew survey article on abortion.

More people think it should be legal than not.

If the poll is accurate, then more people in America think abortion should be legal.

I'm wondering if any, many have changed their minds or could change their minds. Could it go either way?

If so, would more who were against it be for it, or the opposite?

Now regardless how we all feel on the subject, the courts will rule how they will rule.


My question to all of you is this;

Has your mind been changed on abortion?

If so, how?

What could cause a change in such a foundational tenet?

I didn't put this in the Pit for a change, so play nice.

I've never changed my mind. In fact my conviction to the women's right to decide has been deepened by the blatant hypocrisy of the proponents of draconian abortion laws.

One - they deride killing the 'unborn', yet cheer killing the born.
Two - I've yet to talk to an abortion 'protester' that has taken in or adopted an 'unwanted' child.
Three - It is obviously a strategy to control and dominate women and becoming more so everyday.
Four - It promotes 'suffering' - as do all religious extremist views.

a reply to: HolydarknessVA

Of course, we need to overhaul some things about the adoption process too. Even for older kids, legally adopting is like having an anal probe from the state.

We had friends who went through it just trying to adopt a teen.

It has become a Right/Left Issue. I was wondering when this would make the push to this administration but we did not see it in the campaign. That was race cards and homophobia.

Abortion is the act of killing a living being. Case Closed. There is no argument there. It is not just a mass of cells. It has a start, a middle and an end which is birth.

The issue is whether or not the act is legal. It is not about control a womans body or her choice. I am on neither side and do not get into these arguments because as a man I will always lose.

However, I used this as a question once in an argument and have used it since and am usually left alone.

A person can have an abortion but if someone is pregnant and someone kills the child they can be charged with murder. It is not a legal issue it is a moral issue and the government is not the moral police however they can enforce laws.

Abortion as birth control is also a moral issue. Don't have sex won't get pregnant. If you do it should not as easy as 1-2-3 to take a life. I have heard stories of people doing it for revenge or out of hate. Best friends wife did it and did not tell him. He didn't know if it was worse she didn't tell him and why should would not tell him.

Unless it is you in the situation stay out of it. It is for most a very personal or hard decision.

a reply to: matafuchs

You know ... unless they're doing it for revenge or something.

I think most of us here agree there are instances where it's necessary and instances where we could see it as allowable though highly regrettable.

But it should never be used as birth control under any circumstances for many of us.

a reply to: ketsuko


Agreed....

No, it's murder, always has been, always will be.

Justify it anyway you like but that's a fact!

Definition

Murder: "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another"

Not that i don't have sympathy for the situation and circumstances some women find themselves in, i just don't think murder can ever be justified.

To anyone who's pro choice show them a picture of a late term abortion and see how long they can look at a dead baby while taking the moral high ground.

Sorry double post

a reply to: olaru12

When is the last time an amendment was over turned. I don't think the supreme court will touch it.

Roe vs. Wade is not an Amendment. It is a judicial decision. They get overturned quite regularly.

TheRedneck