Tariffs on China how long will the pain last?

a reply to: JAGStorm

As long as it takes.
2nd line.

a reply to: JAGStorm

You know, you're right. I did kind of miss the target of your OP.

I'm not sure there is much anyone can do about people who don't understand what's going on and that it will benefit them more than it impacts them over the long term. Shortsightedness by bad leaders got us here.

originally posted by: olaru12
We used to make steel in America, now we make happy meals and worship clowns!

How long will it take to replace the heavy Mfg infrastructure.

We're making steel again:

www.cnbc.com...

That tariff will do more to combat climate change than the tax on our fuels

I have friends and relatives in China and they are overjoyed at Trump's added tariffs because it PUNISHES the Chinese government for always trying to cheat on everything globally. The Chinese civilian population wants the communist leaders to be punished greatly, and eventually brought down for their oppressive actions wherever they have influence.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
I have friends and relatives in China and they are overjoyed at Trump's added tariffs because it PUNISHES the Chinese government for always trying to cheat on everything globally. The Chinese civilian population wants the communist leaders to be punished greatly, and eventually brought down for their oppressive actions wherever they have influence.

That's some good first hand info.

I hope their social credit score isn't impacted too much by speaking out about these things.

originally posted by: MisterSpock

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
I have friends and relatives in China and they are overjoyed at Trump's added tariffs because it PUNISHES the Chinese government for always trying to cheat on everything globally. The Chinese civilian population wants the communist leaders to be punished greatly, and eventually brought down for their oppressive actions wherever they have influence.

That's some good first hand info.

I hope their social credit score isn't impacted too much by speaking out about these things.

Ah, that's another reason they want to see the communist party there punished, because of that social credit scheme. Very oppressive thing all by itself.
These folks I know there never speak out publicly though. The communists will round up anyone who speaks publicly against them there. Many are tortured physically and mentally for doing so. Some very depraved individuals in government employ there are used for such things.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Automation is a huge thing in China right now.

And to be honest, it is the future. Will the average US citizen accept automation tho? How will they cope with basically being second hand to a machine.

Yay, lets fully automate everything so that we cripple ourselves if an emp should ever go off in the atmosphere. Then China wins without having fired a conventional shot.

*takes tinfoil hat off*

originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: JAGStorm

Well considering how we let it happen...by we I mean the citizens of the US...we will have to lay in the bed we made. Sucks that most of those that will really feel the effects probably weren't old enough to vote when it was happening but, that's life. We the people are ultimately responsible for our republic!

F# A, that's what's sup.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
Clinton, Bush and Obama created this mess and it's needed fixed for decades. This is one of the things Trump is doing that most people are for, even many if not most Democrats in office.

Not long ago people were saying crazy stuff like China will buy the US or they will overpower us due to the way Bush and Obama dealt with it.

What will happen if anything is it will allow more products created here at home, creating better manufacturing jobs, to compete and companies to grow.

China has no honor. They steal intellectual property without even hiding it, they cheat on trade deals so they are liars.

China is getting hurt far more than we are. Their dominance was artificial and always has been. We stop buying, China's economy collapses, so Trump has the upper hand. This is what he's best at. He certainly took care of the NAFTA problem and remember all the boohoo hype that never materialized from that?

This is one case where people need to lay partisan garbage aside and knock of the partisan propaganda.

Even Schumer of all people praised Trump in a rare tweet of a show of support.

If that isn't bi-partisan, I don't know what is.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Automation is a huge thing in China right now.

And to be honest, it is the future. Will the average US citizen accept automation tho? How will they cope with basically being second hand to a machine.

Yay, lets fully automate everything so that we cripple ourselves if an emp should ever go off in the atmosphere. Then China wins without having fired a conventional shot.

*takes tinfoil hat off*

An EMP is coming, whether it's an intentional one or a natural one. Jumping into all this over reliance on technology is going to bite us(as a race) in the ass real hard someday.

Personally, I won't mind rolling back to some simpler times.

a reply to: MisterSpock

I'm fine with some short term pain resulting in long term gains.

Agreed.

a reply to: Grimpachi

It takes time to see any results from these things.

Personally I have hope that they will bring some back.

a reply to: Grimpachi

My bet is we just get stuck with higher priced items until there is a new administration. Companies are going to wait it out and pass the taxes on to the customer.

I wish I could argue against this but I can't.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: MisterSpock

I'm fine with some short term pain resulting in long term gains.

Agreed.

In reality, every generations suffered some hardship in order to ensure prosperity for the next(their descendants). Most suffered threw world wars or major social changes(civil rights). The least we can endure from 2010 to 2025(ish) is a few years of economic hardship if it means a few decades(more) of prosperity.

There are a few generations that just think they should be able to skate by with NO barriers to have to overcome. I for one welcome them, if they mean prosperity for for future generations(higher wages, better economy, sustained safeties/freedom). I mean, I have mine because my grandfather fought in the "big war". As do so many, every(generation) has to pay the toll for the next.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
How many manufacturing jobs have been brought back because of the tariffs?

Possibly quite a few:


www.foxbusiness.com...

While the Obama administration mocked what then-candidate Trump was saying about the possibility of growth in the U.S. economy and the return of manufacturing jobs to the U.S., Trump has more than delivered.

According to Forbes Opens a New Window. : “In the last 26 months of Obama’s presidency, manufacturing employment grew by 96,000 or 0.8 percent. In Trump’s first 26 months, manufacturers added 479,000 jobs, or 3.9 percent, 399 percent more jobs than Obama’s record.”

This is in large part being driven by U.S. leadership. The Trump corporate tax cuts, the trade wars and a revamping of the old NAFTA has all played a part in our U.S. oil demand growth story and all the benefits that brings with it. If the Trump administration can solidify a new trade deal with China, this oil demand growth story will expand even more.

This should also be a lesson for the socialists who want to reverse the gains that the U.S. private sector has made. Socialists always find what is wrong with free markets, free speech and free enterprise. They continue to look at the U.S. economy as the problem, and not the solution.


The US manufacturing job market hasn't been this strong in over 20 years
www.businessinsider.com...

When I first heard US is increasing tariffs it reminded me of the great depression....

As the global economy entered the first stages of the Great Depression in late 1929, the US's main goal emerged to protect American jobs and farmers from foreign competition. Reed Smoot championed another tariff increase within the United States in 1929, which became the Smoot–Hawley Tariff Bill.

The great depression was a recession magnified by unsustainable debt ...

“The share of publicly held debt we have now relative to GDP has only happened once before in U.S. history. What our debt levels are — we often talk about this number, $19 trillion of debt. That’s not the real number because all of your entitlement spending is kept off book on a different ledger. The real number is more like 70 to 75 trillion dollars — and so when you set that up against U.S. GDP, the only time we ever had a debt-to-GDP ratio like this was on the eve of the Great Depression.”
— Sen. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.), town hall meeting in Elkhorn, Neb., March 17, 2017

So what triggered the first great depression ...

Great Depression started in the United States after a major fall in stock prices.

Stay tuned!

originally posted by: JAGStorm

They got the above statement wrong, the people that will feel the greatest impact are the consumers, most likely the middle class. We always are.

Its all a great anti Trump narrative...how much increase do you think? They never say..1% 5% 50%... many of these big increase with be well under 10% at best.

So I'm old enough to remember when all the manufacturing jobs started going. I remember it so clearly. My boss and I had a long discussion about it. One by one they all went to China, India or Mexico.

That's right, been 30 years that China been slowly screwing us to the point of even forcing companies to give up intellectual technology to play in China. They have held every card for so long with so many in America saying..oh don't piss them off, don't upset the balance...there has been no balance...lol

I actually agree with the solution in the article, bring manufacturing back home. The problem is that it takes a while, like 10-20 years. Can Americans endure that kind of timeline?

Really? its 2019...took fracking like months, but still...it seems people want to wallow in China's shadow and get crumbs so we do not change.

The other problem is that Americans became addicted to low cost items. It didn't matter if the quality was questionable, Americans just love cheap junk. I know I know, there are some of us that put quality over quantity or price, but as a whole that is not what America has wanted.

Oh well, who cares...people living past their capabilities in a consumer based society is what is wrong with America in the first place. Businesses goes the path of least resistance to profit, if that is China then they go here, if that is America then they come back..it is just crazy how on the other side of the planet is the least resistance. Change the direction and they will change. Just like people argue we need illegals to pick our crops as slaves instead of paying and extra 10c a pound.

The other big issue is that Americans want to be environmentally friendly, at least here. It's a lot easier to ignore it when it is in a different country far far away. Manufacturing in general is very polluting.

If they really cared they wouldn't outlaw plastic bags as much as outlaw China... The biggest offender by an extreme amount in EVERYTHING

Like I said, there is going to be pain, how much will people endure?

Pin prick????

No if there is money to be made companies will fill the void. Ma nufacturing has been on the increase in the US partly due to tariffs. manufacturing is where the money is jobs tend to pay higher than say healthcare. And for every dollar invested in manufacturing creates an additional 1.40 in other sectors. in other words jobs are created to support the manufacturers. As far as building plants have one near me took 9 months from ground breaking to producing parts. If money is to be made the speed of business can be very fast.

Now as far as China they will have to cave into US demands their whole economy is based on US sales. Without the US to buy their goods the Chinese economy will crash. However, Trump has decided not to give them that time and is currently ramping up the pressure on the Chinese economy. Alot has changed in China and many have not noticed for example they now carry a large international debt much of which is owned by the United States. The general government gross debt"-to-GDP ratio for China was 41.54 percent meaning they need to sell to keep the lights on. The biggest problem they have is the government has been collecting internal debt at an alarming rate. local governments borrow from the chinese govt for manufacturing and about 8 trillion yuan (about one-third of China's economy), mostly to state-owned banks who had made loans to the local governments "to fund risky land and property deals."

China has to sell internationally in order to continue to prop up local governments. currently, at 34 trillion the pile of public and private debt is an explosive threat to the global economy. They tried to spend way to much just like the US economy problem is a lot of their debt has nothing to back it and was given on phony real estate etc. As long as they are making money they can prevent these bubbles from bursting.


www.bloomberg.com...

a reply to: JAGStorm

It wasn’t really about people wanting cheap goods, but corporations wanting greater profits. That’s why all the jobs went abroad.