A Mathematical Analysis of the Star of Bethlehem

a reply to: Jay-morris

Again, you are making your own conclusions which differ with the evidence. Apologies for raining in your parade. I often hear "atheists" make claims about "religious people always wanting to believe no matter the evidence presented." Yet i have seen the same thing happen with atheists like yourself. No matter what evidence is presented, you want to deny that evidence and people like you ALWAYS want to make your own claims with no evidence but "your own beliefs."

On the contrary, i have shown you "evidence from scientists" that the claim that "the Shroud of Turin is a Medieval forgery" is false, and it is in fact a much much older relic from the time of Jesus.

Many experiments have been done on the Shroud. Experiments of all kinds, but since "science cannot prove how it was made" it will ALWAYS remain a mystery.

That in itself shows it's explanation defies physics, and it's something which we might never be able to fully explain. That is the very definition of "paranormal event." Our knowledge of science cannot explain it. But it has been proven to be a real image of a person who suffered those wounds. We just can't reproduce it at all, and many scientists have tried.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Jay-morris

Again, you are making your own conclusions which differ with the evidence. Apologies for raining in your parade. I often hear "atheists" make claims about "religious people always wanting to believe no matter the evidence presented." Yet i have seen the same thing happen with atheists like yourself. No matter what evidence is presented, you want to deny that evidence and people like you ALWAYS want to make your own claims with no evidence but "your own beliefs."

On the contrary, i have shown you "evidence from scientists" that the claim that "the Shroud of Turin is a Medieval forgery" is false, and it is in fact a much much older relic from the time of Jesus.

Many experiments have been done on the Shroud. Experiments of all kinds, but since "science cannot prove how it was made" it will ALWAYS remain a mystery.

That in itself shows it's explanation defies physics, and it's something which we might never be able to fully explain. That is the very definition of "paranormal event." Our knowledge of science cannot explain it. But it has been proven to be a real image of a person who suffered those wounds. We just can't reproduce it at all, and many scientists have tried.

Again, where is the evidence thst proves the shroud is Jesus Christ? Because it is a mystery, does not mean the conclusion is Jesus, far from it.

I do not believe in God/Gods Because there is no evidence, not even one bit, and that's the fact of the matter.

But if I am honest with you, if it turned out that your God was real or Allah, jahova whatever, I would be absolutly gutted! And in no way would I worship a primitive, sexist, control freak, ignorant, arragont etc God!

It is no coincidence that this backward God is pretty much the same as the primitive thinking people back then!

Anyway, to go back to the original topic. People are trying to explain a paranormal event by using only our physical, and limited, knowledge on how our universe/multiverse works.

For example, the wave-particle duality of electrons. Why is it that electrons have shown to be able to make "choices"? Sometimes they show themselves as energy, and sometimes as mater. They in fact REACT to the person studying them.

Why is it that when entangled particles are separated that what happens to one affects the other, no matter how far separated they are?

That wave-particle duality of electrons, and other quantum mechanics/physical phenomenon we have seen/experienced seem to be showing a consciousness which is part of the entire universe and multi-verses. What could that "consciousness" be that encompasses everything?

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Anyway, to go back to the original topic. People are trying to explain a paranormal event by using only our physical, and limited, knowledge on how our universe/multiverse works.

For example, the wave-particle duality of electrons. Why is it that electrons have shown to be able to make "choices"? Sometimes they show themselves as energy, and sometimes as mater. They in fact REACT to the person studying them.

Why is it that when entangled particles are separated that what happens to one affects the other, no matter how far separated they are?

That wave-particle duality of electrons, and other quantum mechanics/physical phenomenon we have seen/experienced seem to be showing a consciousness which is part of the entire universe. What could that "consciousness" be that encompasses everything?

We simply do not know! It's like anything. In ancient times, how did people react when they saw lightning? Was is third hammer? How about if they saw a comet in the sky? Of course we all know what these are now.

The universe is full of mystery. Thing we do mot understand, but that does not mean we will never understand.

As for conciousness. It's a complete mystery, and I have had experiences that has made me question reality and conciousness. Could conciousness exist after we did? Of course it can. Because I do not believe in God, does not mean I am a hard-core skeptic, far from it.

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

As for Jesus existing, the evidence is slim to say the least. But this is the thing about religon, people will not be swayed most of the time, and they will believe what they want to believe. That's ok, as long as you are not hurting anyone, but for me, it's all nonsense. It's stories, fantasies and nothing more.

The evidence for Jesus existence is slim? you haven’t a clue what you are talking about, that’s insane and truly ignorance at its most developed
Jesus existed and we know from the many letters and books written

It’s stupidity on a monster scale to say Jesus didn’t exist and one man and one book proves nothing.
Deny He did miracles, was God, say He was mental, was not the messiah. You can say it was hyperbole, say it was a story manipulated by the Catholic Church that’s fine, to say Jesus didn’t exist, simply dumb.more recorded evidence for Jesus as a historical figure than just about anyone else from that time

I find it hilarious that christians will accept carbon dating on artifacts that help align their bible narrative , but yet Millions of Christians refuse the carbon dating of lower mantle rocks that state the earth to be billions of years old or science doesn’t know how to test a shroud ? You can’t have both ! Matter of fact many people have this dilemma not just faithy types !

Jesus existed no doubt ! I believe that all day ! For real ! My question is this ! If real miracles were being performed where are the 10s of thousands of historical books mentioning these miracles ? All primitive people believed in magic ! Imagine the hysteria over eclipse events or The aurora ? Truth is no people who kicked it in real time with Jesus wrote books or tales about him ,because they could barley write their own names ! Matthew , Mark ,Luke and John never wrote codexes or books about Jesus those tales were first seen 70-100 years after jesus’s Death and the rest about 50-80 years later by mystery men up for debate by bible scholars today .You can read the Sinai Contaticus for free online ! Go ahead read it and post latter after your jaw hits the floor !!
Where are the miracles today ! Oh I forgot Peter Poppoff the miracle water dude I’m sorry ! If god so loved the world Jesus would have never needed to show up ?

originally posted by: SulfurMercurySalt
I find it hilarious that christians will accept carbon dating on artifacts that help align their bible narrative , but yet Millions of Christians refuse the carbon dating of lower mantle rocks that state the earth to be billions of years old or science doesn’t know how to test a shroud ? You can’t have both ! Matter of fact many people have this dilemma not just faithy types !

Carbon dating cannot date anything billions of years old. It's limit is usually around 50,000 years. It sounds like you have blind faith in all the scientific theories, considering you cannot elaborate the empirical data that demonstrates what you believe. I do not mean this as an insult, it is common for people to trust those in authoritative positions and degrees. But they are wrong, the data doesn't support the mainstream theories.

Take for example carbon-dating and dinosaurs, preliminary studies show them to be 4,000-40,000 years old. The old worldview is wrong.

carbon-dating dinosaurs

I also did a thread regarding how all major cultures observed dinosaurs and described them in a matter-of-fact manner:
humans co-existed with dinosaurs

I did not state the belief in any carbon dating ! You on the other hand unhappy with the shroad age dipped into “ it was tainted “ lol I just stated what belivers and non believers do with carbon date results ! I picked no side ! I need no date to know the shroud is bs ! Look at the face ! It’s a euro white face not a desert dwelling Hebrew !

I’m a hermetic and the first rule is that you don’t and should not believe in anything without gnosis ! Then your encouraged to test it for your self and seek truth ! So I did for 30 years in the Orthodox Church until I learned from the holy books themselves ! 15 years in and I knew it was all bs! Fear kept me in for 10 more years and the last 5 I sat with my feet in the rubicon then crossed over to 20 years of reading and traveling ! God is us and we are God ! PS I’m not a AMORC or OTO Crowley though fun was a slob and a waste of pure Intent

Your the only one that has the burden of truth upon your brow ! I have zero intrest in teaching you or most about Hermes Trismegistus or the first topological trinitarian concepts from the aeons themselves ! If how what and who made us was or is pure then zero of that love made it into the Torah or bible !

Atheism is a religion and as annoying as religious types ! Loved Hitch but it’s sad to see atheist and faith types struggle with acceptance of ... WE DONT KNOW # !

I’ve tired of this one !! Great talks ! Debate and harsh words are old traditions that we need more and more of !! Being non PC is good for healing ! No lie ! We all need to vent ! Why not get it out where all can jump in ! I love it good or bad we grow in gnosis ! One last bit of wisdom... “ A donut without a hole is a danish “ Ty Weeb Bushwood legacy member . Always remember humor ! Satan and God prank each other everyday ! Remember the hermetica !

originally posted by: DpatC
According to the link below mathematical analysis of the concept of following the star of Bethlehalm clearly demonstrates that whoever wrote the account had no understanding whatsoever of astronomy.

The analysis Takes into account that

∙ It is impossible to look up with sufficient accuracy to bring you within 100 km of the house (α = 1°), and far less 10 km (α = 0.1°);
∙ The speed at which one has to travel to follow the projection of the star on the earth exceeds the speed of sound;
∙ The star would remain above the house in Bethlehem for less than a second;
∙ The time frame during which star could appear above the house in Bethlehem is fractionally small. For Venus this period is 58 seconds every 485 days (±15m from the house);
∙ The chance that the star, the earth and Bethlehem could ever align correctly in space and time is infinitesimally small; and
∙ All of this had to coincide with the birth of Christ,

From the analysis it can be concluded that one can categorically state that the possibility of the Magi having located the birthplace of Christ by following a star is identically zero.

www.riaanbooysen.com...

So what are ya thinkin' ? They were maybe following Jupiter???

a reply to: Raggedyman

Deny He did miracles, was God, say He was mental, was not the messiah. You can say it was hyperbole, say it was a story manipulated by the Catholic Church that’s fine, to say Jesus didn’t exist, simply dumb.more recorded evidence for Jesus as a historical figure than just about anyone else from that time 

That is Simply not true, and you know it! If that was the case, then historians would not have been debating the fact if he existed or not! And they have been debating this for years!

The Life History Of Jesus Parallels That Of Other Mythical Beings Too Closely To Be Real. And the fact that historical evidence is pretty much does not exist.

You could say Nephilim were reptilian from space being Star of Bethlehem.Arcturians could have been yeshua's star brethren. Angels and demons, faerie folk explain away exopolitics biblically.
Biblical tales could be star charts like Enoch and ezekial's wheel of fire in the sky. All aliens folks, throughout the Bible.

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: Raggedyman

Deny He did miracles, was God, say He was mental, was not the messiah. You can say it was hyperbole, say it was a story manipulated by the Catholic Church that’s fine, to say Jesus didn’t exist, simply dumb.more recorded evidence for Jesus as a historical figure than just about anyone else from that time 

That is Simply not true, and you know it! If that was the case, then historians would not have been debating the fact if he existed or not! And they have been debating this for years!

The Life History Of Jesus Parallels That Of Other Mythical Beings Too Closely To Be Real. And the fact that historical evidence is pretty much does not exist.

Believe what you want, you had to find some obscure Australian from an obscure university, do research, work it out for yourself. Not my problem

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: Raggedyman

Deny He did miracles, was God, say He was mental, was not the messiah. You can say it was hyperbole, say it was a story manipulated by the Catholic Church that’s fine, to say Jesus didn’t exist, simply dumb.more recorded evidence for Jesus as a historical figure than just about anyone else from that time 

That is Simply not true, and you know it! If that was the case, then historians would not have been debating the fact if he existed or not! And they have been debating this for years!

The Life History Of Jesus Parallels That Of Other Mythical Beings Too Closely To Be Real. And the fact that historical evidence is pretty much does not exist.

Believe what you want, you had to find some obscure Australian from an obscure university, do research, work it out for yourself. Not my problem

Ok, you are convinced he was real . So please show me the evidence? Anything that proves Jesus was real.

Why are there so many similer stories that pre date jesus?


Many mythologies have a Christ like character whose story is set around the same pattern. Osiris, the Egyptian god of the underworld had a very similar life story and the ancient Egyptians celebrated his ‘passion’ with gusto. Osiris’ son, Horus was born to a virgin in a cave with a star overhead.

It's a recycled story!

a reply to: Raggedyman

And as for getting information from obscure historians lollol You do realise that many historians believe that there is no real evidence that jesus existed, and is just recycled stories from other Mythical stories before Jesus.

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: Raggedyman

And as for getting information from obscure historians lollol You do realise that many historians believe that there is no real evidence that jesus existed, and is just recycled stories from other Mythical stories before Jesus.

The countless martyrs in the 1st century that included those who saw Jesus are a clear indication that he was a historical figure. Stubborn secularism wants to wish away Jesus from existence, even to the extent of renaming the calendar to CE (common era) rather than AD (age of the king Jesus) which is what it was based off in the first place.

Like Raggedy said, you can deny all the spectacular stuff involved with the narrative of Jesus, but do deny his historicity is only based in the imagination of wishful atheists