Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
Is he even trying to suggest there's a cover up over a cover up?

Well, it's hard to imagine that the military would NOT use a UFO cover story for advanced tech - it sounds entirely logical and even crucial. I'd certainly recommend it in their position.

Is it possible that this is simply a case of a training exercise being sexed-up to UFO status both narratively and visually for the very cover-up purposes mentioned above, with the 'Tic Tac' object a visual non-solid prop for the purposes of the exercise, and TTSA as willing promoters of the Woo-Woo angle 13 years later?

Doesn't sound that crazy to me. No crime committed, no videos nicked, just a few disappointed and very angry UFO spotters. Why would the military care?

If we had access to audio during the video, would it paint an entirely different picture?

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Well, it's hard to imagine that the military would NOT use a UFO cover story for advanced tech - it sounds entirely logical and even crucial. I'd certainly recommend it in their position.

True, they probably have done. Interesting to note as well, that the confiscation of data from the Navy, I'm guessing it was CIA based on older incidents, the current Associate Deputy Director of Operations for Military Affairs (ADDO/MA) for the CIA is a Navy Vice Admiral, I'd say it would make things much easier in this case

Is it possible that this is simply a case of a training exercise being sexed-up to UFO status both narratively and visually for the very cover-up purposes mentioned above, with the 'Tic Tac' object a visual non-solid prop for the purposes of the exercise, and TTSA as willing promoters of the Woo-Woo angle 13 years later?

Doesn't make sense to me, it probably was a UFO(s) to those reportedly involved, whether or not it was black budget (or whatever other terminology) testing or not, remains to be seen. The whole TTSA thing does stink though, if they had ever been serious about the whole UFO thing then the way they've tried to sell it has been absolutely horrible.

If we had access to audio during the video, would it paint an entirely different picture?

Hearing confused people would neither add or negate anything to the alleged event

a reply to: The GUT

Of course I know you were teasing me

imo you are on to something regarding the trickster, I suspect SW has a far reaching elemental or a trickster that hasn't stayed put in Utah.
But perhaps we are heading way too deep into woo woo land for even the most hardened weirdos here to stomach


All these people, including us, are playing out archetypal patterns of control and discord. Some of those control you when you think you control them. Archetypal control systems is why we have UFO's, angels demons etc it is why secret societies form, and whats happening now in UFOlogy is a secret society in schism.


Time for bed I think lol

originally posted by: coursecatalog
Having a lot of computer problems posting here today.

Anyway, it seems this Alien Autopsy memo was uploaded to IMGUR and then leaked directly to UFO researcher and Maryland MUFON Director Teresa Tindal (currently @CaptSpacePirate on Twitter for some reason). She won't give any information when asked on Twitter about who leaked it to her and why.

A few months back Tindal tweeted a picture of her shared car ride with Zondo to that military and UFOs conference. Someone else noteworthy was in the car but I can't remember. [Edit: It was Hal Putoff!]

She has a cable UFO show of her own debuting this summer. I will try to find the name.

I only became aware of her when she surfaced with the other Young Guns on Twitter a while back. They seemed to all arrive at the same time around

the TTSA announcement.

Edit: It was the Scientific Coalition for Ufology’s Anomalous Aerospace Phenomena Conference on March 15.

As I said earlier, a busy one. Keep digging Nothing I do not expect.

originally posted by: celltypespecific
a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Well said Kigoretrout!!
But someone definetly have more data. There was FOUR vidoes of the nimtz, a powerpoint presentation, Sonor, and an official debrief of the events.

I see. I was thinking that the helmets might be significant because they shield from certain effects, which may be why the pilots don't have naked eye visuals of the objects but I suppose it could be because of recording devices within the helmets that might record different types of information to the footage already released. Any thoughts?

ETA: Oh! It's both! Isn't it? Is it?

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Yes the shadow has put me through hell, so how do you control these archetypes or choose when and where to let them out for a walk, if it's about balance nothing should be repressed. That's why I sing powerballads in the shower.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

I was wondering if they were "testing" earlier versions of the helmets that ended up in the F35. Others including Burroughs for some reason has waded in with this speculation...he must have fell off that horse!

I have researched the R&D of the F35 helmets in relation to this but cannot find any indication that it was the ones destined for the F35 that would have been tested on the Carrier Strike group in this time frame.

Red herring? Possibly...but there is a reason that F35 helmets cost $400,000 a piece. Can anyone say - Brain Computer interface?

There maybe other variations - the electro-optical systems in some helmets is very interesting and something I have asked some of the Aircraft Forum members and am awaiting a response

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

The Helmets they would have been wearing and a brief history of those and testing / deployment of;

The Boeing Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) combines a magnetic head tracker with a display projected onto a pilot's visor, giving the pilot a targeting device that can be used to aim sensors and weapons wherever the pilot is looking. It does so by synchronizing aircraft sensors with the user's head movements so they automatically point where the pilot looks and displaying flight information on the inside of the helmet visor so data is always in view.

In July 2000, Boeing received U.S. Navy approval for JHMCS to proceed into low-rate initial production and deliver 36 systems as part of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft that would be delivered in fiscal year 2002.

The Navy began F/A-18E/F Super Hornet flight testing of the JHMCS in April 2001. On Aug. 29, 2003, the U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) awarded Boeing a $24 million contract to produce 100 JHMCS destined for the U.S. Air Force F-15 and F-16 aircraft and the Navy’s F/A-18E/F aircraft. DOD contracts for full production followed in February and June 2004 for U.S. Air Force and Air National Guard F-15 Eagles and Air Force F-16 Fighting Falcons, along with U.S. Navy F/A-18E/F Super Hornets.

The system’s first operational use was during Operation Iraqi Freedom. Customers for the system include Australia, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Korea, the Netherlands, Norway, Oman, Poland, Turkey and Switzerland.

Source - Boeing

a reply to: zazzafrazz

There is nothing wrong with "Woo" its one persons lunacy and anothers science; just depends on perspective, knowledge and inclination to look and apply a method of investigation into Woo-woo Land. Many start in many different places and far apart and some of us bring the woo and the science together in the middle, and yes; some people are nuttier than Squirrel turds and always will be.

The point you also make which may not be as apparent, is the fact there is still "something" that people see and cannot explain. Whatever it is, because no-one really knows (!probably?) is that it gets kicked to the back of the room in the discussion far too many times because of all this other nonsense.

We are also guilty of this, we are too busy debating other things the "the UFO/UAP/high strangeness/phenomena/whatever you like to call it" gets left out of the conversation sometimes.

I'm certainly guilty of that at times too...so don't apologize for going there...
Just waffling now.....

Watching the Nimitz sections of 'Unidentified' again, it's still impossible to ignore the abject patronising stupidity of shielding the female pilot's identity - which immediately set alarm bells ringing within two minutes of the programme starting. Her facial features were visible depending on the contrast/brightness settings of one's monitor/TV, as was her hair colour and body type etc. Moreover, the USAF would have zero difficulty in identifying her in any case for OBVIOUS reasons, least of all her duties that day in relation to Fravor. Do they really believe we're that naive? Well, yes.

For me, that aspect is almost at the same level of crass rubbish as Zondo's 1952 lies and Mellon's incompetent balloon presentation. Utterly ridiculous, not to mention the carefully arranged moody lighting and general structure of a standard TV drama during the 'Zondo On The Road' sections.

As a whole, though, the programme remained entertaining junk - even if TDL assures us this is NOT "Entertainment" - yes, Tom, anything you say, Tom. Sheesh.

a reply to: pigsy2400

An AMAZING article by BLACKVAULT.....

BlackVault's take on Lue

a reply to: celltypespecific

I don't always agree with John but he is spot on about this.

All his major detractors seem to have one key thing in common - a direct or indirect connection to TTSA.

As far as the female wingman, I got the impression that she's supposed to be outed at some point---it's part of the plan/plot points. A little counterintel hocus-pocus to make it all more believable.

Her interview seemed very coached to me. She came across at some points as acting. Of course when putting a production together folk can be quite rambling and quick soundbites are needed to move the narrative along. So maybe that explains some of that---"Could you go over that again but condense it to yadayada..."

originally posted by: The GUT
As far as the female wingman, I got the impression that she's supposed to be outed at some point---it's part of the plan/plot points. A little counterintel hocus-pocus to make it all more believable.

Her interview seemed very coached to me. She came across at some points as acting. Of course when putting a production together folk can be quite rambling and quick soundbites are needed to move the narrative along. So maybe that explains some of that---"Could you go over that again but condense it to yadayada..."

I subsequently lost it, but her name is actually mentioned somewhere in the videos related to the event, and I also believe she has now passed away

originally posted by: celltypespecific

BlackVault's take on Lue

One of the best points made in the article is this:

The only other piece of evidence is an alleged “leaked” letter, dated June 24, 2009, wherein Senator Harry Reid requested Special Access Program (SAP) status for AATIP. There is no provenance of this letter. The redactions were applied by investigative journalist George Knapp, who strangely, chose to (or was instructed to) redact Mr. Elizondo’s name prior to originally publishing in June 2018.

Despite that bizarre choice, Mr. Knapp says on his social media, in light of this new Pentagon statement, Mr. Elizondo’s name is in “position #10” and has released that portion of the letter that he had previously redacted.

Beyond the question of why Mr. Knapp would even redact Mr. Elizondo’s name in the first place, the fact remains that the letter is from June 24, 2009, which pre-dates Mr. Elizondo’s claim of heading the program, by at least 5+ months. (See TTSA official statement) So in other words, the appearance of his name, with the date of the letter, does not address the Pentagon’s statement or the indication Mr. Elizondo did not direct the AATIP program.

Was it redacted because "Special Agent" in the #10 spot seems to suggest Lue wasn't the director? There was no security purposes for Elizondo's name to be redacted at this point.

Sorry to see Greenewald being given such grief for trying to bring some clarity and confirmation to this.

originally posted by: The GUT

BlackVault's take on Lue

What would make some sense of all the conflicting statements and runarounds were if what we're seeing is a counterintelligence operation.

Which it appears Lue has significant experience in. Even though TTSA refuted that any CI folk were a part of their org if I remember correctly.

originally posted by: The GUT

Sorry to see Greenewald being given such grief for trying to bring some clarity and confirmation to this.

Is the grief coming from the young guns? Surely nobody bothers listening to those goons.

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
I also believe she has now passed away

That's sad news. RIP.

Whether a witness to a genuine anomalous event, or just going with the flow on a UFO cover-story, she certainly did her duty.

And the USAF obviously knew her real identity anyway. Let's just hope her death doesn't start yet another conspiracy theory... Come to think of it, perhaps we shouldn't even have mentioned her demise; CTers will already be forming a queue.

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

I subsequently lost it, but her name is actually mentioned somewhere in the videos related to the event, and I also believe she has now passed away

If you recall which vid that would be I know we'd all be interested in knowing more about her. I skipped around on a few of the witness vids in hopes of catching it but no luck so far.

In the meantime, looking forward to the article that Tyler Rogoway teased yesterday.

a reply to: The GUT

It may well be this one:

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

If you want a real CT and this is an IC operation then maybe nothing is real about it.

This is just a few random thoughts on this whole mess.

>>>>

What is the evidence we are presented with from TTSA and associated partners?

Three videos. Supposedly confirmed for release by a DD1910 Form (not officially released by FOIA).

The Pentagon have sort of confirmed it's genuine but turned around and said it was none standard and the videos weren't for public release. How do we know the videos we've seen are actually known as GIMBAL, GOFAST and FLIR as mentioned on the document? Are the videos REALLY linked to that document? We don't really know do we? TTSA are unwilling to be upfront about anything.

>>>>

Apparently the Navy have stopped dismissing UFO reports due to the diligent work of TTSA (no actual proof of that). But the Navy did say whilst they investigate threats to US airspace How then are there three videos of alleged UFOs captured by Naval pilots in the possession of TTSA?

>>>>

The Harry Reid letter (if it's genuine as it's provenance is also unknown) was originally made public in 2018 with Elizondo's name redacted. Why was it redacted? It would surely have strengthened the case a year ago about Zondo being part of and briefed on the AATIP project. Of course it would have brought awkward questions back then too due to the fact it doesn't mention he was Project Director and he's only at 10 on the list.

>>>>

Why is no one questioning how certain bloggers, tweeters, MUFON people and social media accounts (on this site too) are cheerleading TTSA came to be? All appeared around the same time and appear to be given little bits to leak out into the public domain. Who is feeding these people with info?

This all appears to be an operation where TTSA have planned rebuttals in a game of "Told ya so" after the nasty naysayers reveal new evidence.

>>>>

The Nimitz story, whilst a genuine mystery at present, again seems to be tightly controlled with Fravor the poster boy and a couple of others only being allowed to speak. There are others with different tales to tell who have also been slapped down publicly in the social media flame wars.

>>>>

Was Zondo chosen for his part in this as a minder for Tom (hence his security role) and the plan all along was to supplant Tom as spokesman? Or was it something of a panic decision when Tom went "Rogue with Rogan"?