Venezuelas Maduro Given Ultimatum By European Leaders

originally posted by: Salander
If true, that is likely because the rest of South and Central America have puppet governments that do the bidding of the US.

Most countries see Venezuela as a basket case. Countries neighbouring Venezuela are impacted by mass migration out of that crappily run and corrupt country. You don't have to be shackled to the US to see Venezuela is an affront, and thus want it to be run differently.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Salander
If true, that is likely because the rest of South and Central America have puppet governments that do the bidding of the US.

Most countries see Venezuela as a basket case. Countries neighbouring Venezuela are impacted by mass migration out of that crappily run and corrupt country. You don't have to be shackled to the US to see Venezuela is an affront, and thus want it to be run differently.

Why do you suppose that crappily run and corrupt country provided free heating oil to needy US residents back around the time of Katrina?


Heartless communists helping out their fellowman. How cruel.

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Salander
If true, that is likely because the rest of South and Central America have puppet governments that do the bidding of the US.

Most countries see Venezuela as a basket case. Countries neighbouring Venezuela are impacted by mass migration out of that crappily run and corrupt country. You don't have to be shackled to the US to see Venezuela is an affront, and thus want it to be run differently.

Why do you suppose that crappily run and corrupt country provided free heating oil to needy US residents back around the time of Katrina?


Heartless communists helping out their fellowman. How cruel.

It was a political stunt, pure & simple. You're embarrassing yourself trying to argue that Venezuela isn't a horribly-run basketcase. Even active army generals are beginning to turn on Maduro. That's why he asked Russia to send a team of mercenaries to protect his sorry keister.

originally posted by: Salander
Why do you suppose that crappily run and corrupt country provided free heating oil to needy US residents back around the time of Katrina?

Publicity stunt. Quite laughable really - as if the US would have agreed. Cuba offered aid after Katrina too. If Venezuela really wanted to do some good with their oil and wealth thy should have invested it in Venezuela. As it is all that money has gone (er) into the pockets of the leaders.

a reply to: paraphi

Yeah. Well, not counting the billions stolen by western banks. Gotta love our political stunts! “Look what socialism did to Venezuela!”(as billions of dollars in confiscated bank deposits line us pockets). I’m sure that 8 billion of Venezuela’s money could have gone a long way to helping feed the poor Venezuelans the us media pretends to care about.

originally posted by: pexx421
Yeah. Well, not counting the billions stolen by western banks.

Show us where billions have been stolen from Venezuela by foreign banks. Freezing a countries assets is not stealing if that's what you are alluding to.

So Brexit was just for show!
we will not Brexit !
I wounder how they will Spin this?

originally posted by: DoctorBluechip
This op is not just about Venezuela's current situation but about the fact that a British MP Alan Duncan is announcing EU foreign policy .

There are anomalies in the bbc report linked below , such as the definition of EU8 . It is about there being changes afoot in EU and world hierarchy .

European powers have warned Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro that he must call elections within eight days or they will officially recognise the opposition's claim of leadership.
Mr Maduro is under pressure after his rival Juan Guaidó declared himself "acting president" on Wednesday.
Several countries, including the US, already back Mr Guaidó as president.

Venezuela later rejected the ultimatum at a UN meeting, where divisions between world powers were laid bare.

Now it looks like the EU are joining Trump and other Western allies in calling for regime change in Venezuela . The divisions between world powers - Russia China North Korea et al. (the East/SCO) support Maduro , the West particularly America wants to see the East lose their grip in South America ie Brazil and Venezuela . We know about that division . Read the bbc article

But note this interesting part :

On Saturday, permanent Security Council members France and the UK joined Germany, Spain and other European nations in what looked like a co-ordinated demand that elections be called in Venezuela within eight days.

An EU statement was more cautious, seeking fresh elections or the bloc would take "further actions, including on the issue of recognition of the country's leadership".

Speaking on behalf of the EU, UK Foreign Office Minister Sir Alan Duncan said Venezuela needed a government "that truly represents the will of the Venezuelan people".

“The #EU strongly calls for the urgent holding of free, transparent and credible presidential elections”@AlanDuncanMP delivers joint #EU8 statement after #UNSC briefing on the situation in #Venezuela. 🇧🇪🇫🇷🇩🇪🇮🇹🇬🇧🇸🇪🇳🇱🇵🇱 📄Read the full statement: https://(link tracking not allowed)/2Tc8Hrf 78 6:17 PM - Jan 26, 2019 101 people are talking about this

When the bbc has listed Alan Duncan MP (UK) as speaking on behalf of the EU , and delivering a joint EU8 statement - what's going on ? First of all , the EU8 are just small Eastern European countries that joined in 2004 ? The UK is not one the EU8 ?

Alan Duncan is The minister of State for Europe and The Americas

But that role is performed for the British Government , not the European Union .

The now enlarged post of Minister of State for Europe and the Americas is held by Sir Alan Duncan, who is largely regarded as the second most senior-ranking Foreign Office Minister behind the Foreign Secretary.[3][4] The Minister is responsible for government policy towards The Americas (including Cuba); Europe; NATO and European security; defence and international security; the Falkland Islands; polar regions; migration; protocol; human resources; OSCE and Council of Europe; relations with Parliament; FCO finance; knowledge and technology

Leaving aside Venezuela for now , let's examine this oddity of a powerful British MP speaking for the EU on foreign policy . Let's postulate a theory :

The US democratic party (and previous republican governments) , and the EU , have been shown to have been reading from the same songsheet , as having common policy directors , as being members of the same global groups eg the CDI . Also in previous threads the globalist political conglomerate which included the Obama presidency and the EU have been becoming increasingly accepting and co-operative with the SCO . There would have been benefits to these arrangements considering for example the manufacturing power of China , useful in the West and the ongoing need for peaceful relations with the East is a requirement of good economic relations.
BUT , the factions _now in power in America and Britain are beginning to challenge both the old order at home in the West , and the Eastern bloc . Eg Trump vs Dems , and eg Brexit vs Europe . This new ACRE coallition faction has been shown to be calling the EU to heel , threatening the EU's integrity with Brexit - and now , maybe the EU has folded , and the legacies of the US and global Democratic party being soft towards the East , perhaps even in cahoots for various mutual benefits , are coming to an end ? That , perhaps , would explain why Alan Duncan is there at the UN declaring EU foreign policy , might explain why the bbc are struggling to explain how on earth that works ? - The West, under new leaderships are cleaning out those that were happy with being peaceful and co-operative towards the East , and that includes from inside the EU . Why would they be doing this ? Perhaps , to powerfully reassert US hegemony , to put again as it was once before ... America First .

The East under previous Western governments the last 20 years have been given the chance to gain ground , to group up and challenge US dominance , and Europe the chance to escape US influences , where previously they had to follow the US lead . Perhaps the EU wouldn't be making this statement about Venezuela without pressure from the faction related to Trump , and without a Brexit arranged by the same covert US influence . Multi-polarism appeals to Eastern international concerns , and Europe itself has reason to question and even reject the uni-polarism of US hegemony eg the petrodollar , not least the idea that Europe would eventually overtake the US as being the world's dominant force . It would perhaps have suited Europe to align with the SCO , for these ends , to become friends or at least mutually accepting of the Eastern powers . All this would mean that Trump - and Brexit - are the fronts of a grouping committed to reasserting US world dominance , both over Europe , and of course the East . And that's how we get reports such as today's from the bcc . This is only theory of course , it could be partly wrong , or entirely wrong , but it's supported by factual reading .

If this theory holds any water , the EU has perhaps already now been brought to heel , will now continue as subservient to the US , has now folded to the control of the UK over it's foreign policy , and this has been achieved via the threat Brexit poses to the EU institution's very continuity and perhaps some other various means such as what the Five Eyes know and can use about the leaders of Europe . Meanwhile the East will suffer further setbacks from the new far more aggressive style of American foreign policy , the East has lost Brazil to the right wing Bolsonaro , and will probably lose Venezuela too , eventually .

I agree with Russia. Trump sould stay the # out of Venezuela lest it end up like Vietnam, Iraq and Syria. No better than Obama.

European Union leaders should worry about the affairs in their own backyards rather then following whatever America tells them to do.

a reply to: IndyFront

Russia has a strategic interest in Venezuela. The first interest that it has, are the loans that it made to the country, and the other is that it wants to have a military/naval base there, that way they can be in the waters closer to the USA. Make no mistake, Russia is not doing this cause it is the right thing, but for an economic and military strategy that would allow for it to have a port where it can be in the USA backyard and put military pressure on the USA, countering the years that the USA has done such to Russia. China is looking for an inroad and will also seek to make inroads and this could be the way for them to do such.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Salander
If true, that is likely because the rest of South and Central America have puppet governments that do the bidding of the US.

Most countries see Venezuela as a basket case. Countries neighbouring Venezuela are impacted by mass migration out of that crappily run and corrupt country. You don't have to be shackled to the US to see Venezuela is an affront, and thus want it to be run differently.

Why do you suppose that crappily run and corrupt country provided free heating oil to needy US residents back around the time of Katrina?


Heartless communists helping out their fellowman. How cruel.

It was a political stunt, pure & simple. You're embarrassing yourself trying to argue that Venezuela isn't a horribly-run basketcase. Even active army generals are beginning to turn on Maduro. That's why he asked Russia to send a team of mercenaries to protect his sorry keister.

What part of the US Constitution empowers the government to overthrow the legitimate governments of horribly-run basketcases like Ukraine, Syria or Venezuela?


Calling their generosity with heating oil in 2005 a publicity stunt sounds remarkably like the rhetoric being offered by the Fab Four, Trump, Pence, Pompeo and Bolton.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Salander
Why do you suppose that crappily run and corrupt country provided free heating oil to needy US residents back around the time of Katrina?

Publicity stunt. Quite laughable really - as if the US would have agreed. Cuba offered aid after Katrina too. If Venezuela really wanted to do some good with their oil and wealth thy should have invested it in Venezuela. As it is all that money has gone (er) into the pockets of the leaders.

So acts of humanity and generosity in your world are publicity stunts?


Does that mean when our US Navy hospital ship goes around to render aid to victims of tsunamis and other natural disasters that also is a publicity stunt? Or are we exempt from such stunts because we are an exceptional and exempt nation?

Does that mean that people who donate to Red Cross or other charities are performing publicity stunts too?


Strange world, eh?

a reply to: paraphi

I’ll tell you what. The next big banking crash, which is coming soon, they are already setting up a “bail in” system since they know they won’t get another bailout through congress. The banks are planning to seize all deposits they hold to cover their losses. It’s alrady being tried in other nations as a trial run. So when the banks take all your deposits for their own to cover losses from their toxic investments, we will see then if you think it’s theft.

a reply to: Salander

They feel this way because in the us “charity” to other nations is only given with expectations of future exploitation in return, so they can’t imagine other people just being decent human beings. Interestingly the person posted “as if we would accept it” when in fact the us did accept Venezuela’s cheap oil to homes in the northeast to keep people from freezing to death. The us had actually asked all the oil companies to contribute, and citgo, Venezuela’s oil company, was the only one who agreed to do so.

I hope I’m wrong but I can only see military action being the end result. It’s slowly brewing up what with the Colombian foreign minister meeting John Bolton and the Colombian president and First Lady on their way to meet Trump.

Only time will tell

originally posted by: pexx421
They feel this way because in the us “charity” to other nations is only given with expectations of future exploitation in return, so they can’t imagine other people just being decent human beings.

"They" saw Chevez's publicity stunt of offering oil to the victims of the Katrina disaster as just that. A stunt.

I am not US, but bear in mind that the US is by far the biggest donator of foreign aid, with billions going to poorer countries with no stings attached. The UK and Germany are also massive givers, with the UK pushing out £14bn. Venezuela is sucking in cash primarily from Russia who now have significant stakes in the oil industry, while the country has completely failed. I wonder how much of Venezuela's riches have been siphoned off by the Venezuelan political elite and the military.

a reply to: paraphi

You are incorrect. There are strings. One string is that a large percentage of us foreign aid must be spent buying weapons from the us. It’s actually a massive theft from taxpayers to give to the arms industry, largely held by those in congress who approve those funds, or the people who pay for their campaigns. And maybe Venezuela wouldn’t be sucking money if western banks didn’t freeze all their assets, and western powers weren’t waging economic war against them.

a reply to: pexx421

Venezuela is broke because the government broke it. Trying to blame foreign banks for the failure of government in Venezuela is just not factual.

I disagree with you on aid. I cannot talk for the US Aid here it is but many countries that receive aid don't buy weapons from the US, but please provide some evidence that aid comes with conditions to buy arms. Here's another link

a reply to: paraphi

So therefore in your strange world, any act of charity by any country to another is a publicity stunt. Strange world indeed, there in the shadow.

originally posted by: Salander
So therefore in your strange world, any act of charity by any country to another is a publicity stunt. Strange world indeed, there in the shadow.

Oh Lordie. It was not an act of charity - it was a publicity stunt. If Chavez was really into charitable giving he could have donated cash to the impoverished Venezuelans. He knew such an offer would be rejected by the US authorities.