Brexit, Today is the Vote!

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: ipsedixit

Irelands issue.
Theyt voted against the EU too, but were forced to vote until the EU got the result it wanted.

I doubt it.

Once Britain starts moving ahead of the EUeconomically, Ireland will make the right choice and leave too.

That's hilarious. Brexit is a scam being run by the rich. It is very similar to Trumpism in the US. Domination by financiers wearing the mask of populism.

"Ireland's border is Europe's border"

That says it all. Ireland conquered by the EU. Your land is our land.

I think it's more like "your economy is our economy". That's a step up for Ireland.

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
a reply to: ipsedixit


Is your argument that the European Union will be so anti-Immigration they will have to build a wall to keep out the UK Citizens from Ireland?

This is really the 'huge" issue of the day?

Ireland Population 4.8 million.
Northern Ireland population 1.8 million.



Give me a break. If the European Union wants to make such a huge deal about that border, then they are just showing the reasons why the UK made the right decision in leaving such a ridiculous organization.

The trade is one thing , but the main thing is not to ignite the tensions which have been quelled by good diplomacy between the Republic of Ireland and Great Britain in the good friday agreement

there are fears that creating a hard border could bring rise to more socio/political tension in terms of political /national identity and religious identity!

In other worse there is a very real possibility people will start the trouble again

a reply to: sapien82

A hard border will definitely lead to trouble. I think the first item on the agenda after a no deal Brexit will be a reunification referendum in Ireland. It would be a close run thing. I don't think the issue is clear cut, even in Northern Ireland.

a reply to: ipsedixit

I think it will lead to Ireland leaving the EU.
Let's face it, the EU is crumbling anyway.
We'll be much better off out of it - after an initial (and short) period of time with lots of crying and bad decisions based on emotions akin to a 16yr old girl being dumped, things will settle down and the UK will out compete and out perform the EU in every respect.

You really need to get over it and accept the People's Vote of June 2016 - and stop with the dishonest fear mongering.

a reply to: UKTruth

I respect your right to your opinion but I think you are delusional. There has been an avalanche of opinion expressed from people outside the UK, or business interests within the UK, warning against Brexit, but particularly a "no deal" Brexit.

The EU had better not be crumbling, and that's from a British point of view. Whatever happens, the EU will be Britain's greatest ally and trading partner. The British should be rooting for them.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
A hard border will definitely lead to trouble. I think the first item on the agenda after a no deal Brexit will be a reunification referendum in Ireland. It would be a close run thing. I don't think the issue is clear cut, even in Northern Ireland.

No it would not. The significant majority in NI - including Catholics - want to remain part of the UK. The Republic would go bust trying to reunify.

Besides, a hard border won't happen and is unnecessary, even with a crash out Brexit.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: UKTruth

I respect your right to your opinion but I think you are delusional. There has been an avalanche of opinion expressed from people outside the UK, or business interests within the UK, warning against Brexit, but particularly a "no deal" Brexit.

Since when has anyone thought about, worried, considered, or even cared

about what the neighbours have had to say?

My home my rules my decor mind your own business!

a reply to: paraphi

As far as reunification of north and south goes, I think the situation is in flux. Polls are often unreliable. An actual vote is the only poll that counts. The 2016 US election is a good illustration. Most of the polls had Clinton ahead of Trump.

People in Northern Ireland are not voting strictly along religious lines as much nowadays. There are Catholic Unionists! To me this means that politics in Northern Ireland is becoming more "political" in a standard way, even if only slightly.

I think things are loosening up in that regard. A "no deal" Brexit might be very significant in the context of a referendum.

In a "no deal" Brexit situation you could call the border whatever you want, hard, soft, or nonexistent, but there will be controls at the border if there is no deal with the EU when Britain leaves.

a reply to: eletheia

If we were talking about your home, I would agree, but we are talking about an economy and international relations, which is different. When you are doing business with them, you have to take what others think and do into consideration.

To me one of the things that suggests that a referendum on unification with the Republic of Ireland might well be very close and maybe a win for unification, is that such a vote would in many ways be a replay of the referendum on leaving the EU, i.e., Brexit.

The Brexit vote was about a lot of things, but the economy was definitely an important one.

theconversation.com...

Examining data from the 2016 Northern Ireland Assembly election study, conducted close to the time of the referendum, it emerges that there was a very strong ethnonational basis to voting. It seems 85% of Catholics voted Remain, compared to only 40% of Protestants.

40% of Protestants is still a very significant number voting to remain.

If there were to be a "no deal" Brexit, a referendum on unification in Northern Ireland might become a way in which the Brexit vote could be annulled, and the region could remain in the EU.

www.brookings.edu...

In the Brexit referendum, 55.8 percent of voters in Northern Ireland preferred to remain in the EU.

Bottom line, I think there is reason to believe that a referendum on unification with the south might be closer in result than people think.

a reply to: ipsedixit

I understand what you are both saying, and I'm sure so does the European Union and the United Kingdom, which is why a "hard border" won't happen.


there are exceptions to everything and the good Friday agreement should(most likely will) stay as is for the most part. It's in NO ONE's interest to reignite that fight and I feel like people are only using it to scare monger. No one on either side is actually saying they should make it a hard border. On the CONTRARY everyone is saying it SHOULD not be a hard border and are only using the issue to scare monger.


It won't happen. Deal or no deal, period.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: UKTruth

I respect your right to your opinion but I think you are delusional. There has been an avalanche of opinion expressed from people outside the UK, or business interests within the UK, warning against Brexit, but particularly a "no deal" Brexit.

The EU had better not be crumbling, and that's from a British point of view. Whatever happens, the EU will be Britain's greatest ally and trading partner. The British should be rooting for them.

Rooting for them is one thing, burying your head in the sand and refusing to accept reality is quite another. The EU IS CRUMBLING, it's the reality. Sure you should hope it doesn't happen, but you should prepare for the reality of it.

Satire:

a reply to: ipsedixit

There will not be a referendum in Northern Ireland about unification in the near future.

Before the Brexit fiasco there was growing support in traditional Nationalist communities for continued membership of the UK.
Sure, Brexit may have changed things, for the time being.....but not enough to warrant a referendum.

A referendum would require a significant change in opinion within the traditional Loyalist communities and regardless of dissatisfaction with Westminster that won't happen any time soon.

Come Brexit the technicalities surrounding the Irish border will be sorted out, a hard border is in no-one's interests so things will be sorted....it really should be that simple.
Unfortunately too many people are playing party politics and/or pushing their own agenda's rather than looking after the interests of both the Northern and Southern Irish.

Satire:

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: UKTruth

I respect your right to your opinion but I think you are delusional. There has been an avalanche of opinion expressed from people outside the UK, or business interests within the UK, warning against Brexit, but particularly a "no deal" Brexit.

The EU had better not be crumbling, and that's from a British point of view. Whatever happens, the EU will be Britain's greatest ally and trading partner. The British should be rooting for them.

Let me make myself clear in this way, the EU crumbling to dust and ceasing to exist is THE most important thing to me.
It is an evil regime on the level of the Nazi's - just with less obvious uniform and bloodless tactics (for now).

If I have to feel economic pain for a while in order to cut ties with the EU - easily worth it. Sign me up. I won't let the many people who died defeating the Nazi's have died in vain.

a reply to: UKTruth

I assume that plans for a Normandy landing are in the works.

a reply to: ipsedixit

Nah Normandy isnt the landing site ,that would just be far too obvious , or would it , a double bluff

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: UKTruth

I assume that plans for a Normandy landing are in the works.

Based on the Brexit process so far I think the Dieppe Raid is a better example.

Satire: