A Sculpture Celebrating Saudi Arabia Has Been Erected on Ground Zero. “There is no god but Allah,

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Hold on, are you saying that christians don’t lie? Or can’t lie? Are they forbidden to decieve in warfare, and therefor don’t? It seems you are conflating an ideal with reality. There is what the bible teaches, and then there is the hard reality of the US bombing millions of innocents into oblivion.

I'm saying that a devout Christian violates their faith if they lie per the Bible. The Quran cannot make the same claim, as we can easily find that it teaches lies to be acceptable. As for the "bombing innocents" goes, who's to blame there... the party who is trying to end a war by eliminating the warmongers or the cowards who embed themselves in civilian populations in the hopes their innocent human shields will stop the west from attacking? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say cowardice, particularly cowardice that victimizes your own people, is not a virtue.

So.... real christians can’t lie? Have you ever lied?

a reply to: Woodcarver

oh? It's a numbers game to you now, eh?

Abandoned the ideology argument and now you're trying to CONTINUALLY set up strawmen to tear down.

You're trying to frame this into a neat and tidy argument to prove what, exactly?

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Woodcarver

oh? It's a numbers game to you now, eh?

Abandoned the ideology argument and now you're trying to CONTINUALLY set up strawmen to tear down.

You're trying to frame this into a neat and tidy argument to prove what, exactly?

There are several points to be made here. The numbers are quite heavy in one direction. In the last 20 years, the US military has killed at least 5 million civilians. That’s not counting enemy combatants or civilians who died from a destabilized govt. that number would be around 20 million.

Our troop loss is around 9000.

America presents itself to the world as a christian Nation.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
So.... real christians can’t lie? Have you ever lied?

LOL! I certainly don't lie about my intentions and my religion. Look around this site sometime, you won't find many more open books than I am. I am a warmongering SOB so long as there is a paycheck in it, and I have never once said anything other than that. When I support it, I don't use my religion as a crutch to do so... I readily admit that I am never going to be considered a saint, nor am I pious man. I have my beliefs, and I know the Bible, but please find me somewhere, anywhere where I am waving my hands in the air and saying I'm living my life to the Christian ideal. You'll be searching for a needle in a haystack, because you won't find anywhere that I've said that. Honesty... it often includes showing the world exactly what you are while throwing a middle finger in the face of anyone who has an issue with it.

a reply to: Woodcarver

US military has killed at least 5 million civilians.

Source, please.

That’s not counting enemy combatants or civilians who died from a destabilized govt. that number would be around 20 million.

Source, please.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Woodcarver
So.... real christians can’t lie? Have you ever lied?

LOL! I certainly don't lie about my intentions and my religion. Look around this site sometime, you won't find many more open books than I am. I am a warmongering SOB so long as there is a paycheck in it, and I have never once said anything other than that. When I support it, I don't use my religion as a crutch to do so... I readily admit that I am never going to be considered a saint, nor am I pious man. I have my beliefs, and I know the Bible, but please find me somewhere, anywhere where I am waving my hands in the air and saying I'm living my life to the Christian ideal. You'll be searching for a needle in a haystack, because you won't find anywhere that I've said that. Honesty... it often includes showing the world exactly what you are while throwing a middle finger in the face of anyone who has an issue with it.

I certainly wouldn’t expect you to admit to any wrong doing. But what about all the other Christians? They’re all liars right?

Quiet the kick in the balls/slap in the face.
Nothing will change. All that matters is Saudi $$$

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Woodcarver

US military has killed at least 5 million civilians.

Source, please.

That’s not counting enemy combatants or civilians who died from a destabilized govt. that number would be around 20 million.

Source, please.

Estimates 20 million
www.globalresearch.ca...


Estimates 20-30million
www.sott.net...


List of American casualties in the war on terrorism
www.pbs.org...

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
Islam and christianity share the same god. Yes the abrahamic religions are all sexist, racist and homophobic. Seems a bit rich for one to criticise the other.

Point to a modern religion other than Islam who does what Islam does today?

Islam is a cancer upon the Earth compared to ALL OTHER religions.

Have you seen what the American military has been up to for the last 20 years in the middle east and North Africa? In Iraq alone there were 1.5 million civilian casualties. Now add up Afghanistan, Libya, Pakistan, Iran, and everything in between. How many millions of people have American Christians killed in the last 20 years?

I’m in no way defending Islam, just like i won’t defend Christianity. I consider them equally absurd. But for you to say that christians haven’t done anything bad recently, is equally absurd. I’m sure from the middle east’s perspective, they believe Christians are destroying their way of life. (Their way of life is stupid)and it wouldn’t be difficult to demonstrate that it is the fault of christians when our President Bush declares we are a christian nation, and that God is on our side. Right before attacking a country that had nothing to do with the attacks on 911.

You would prob agree that America is a christian nation founded on christian values? President Bush said as much. If you do agree with that, then how do you reconcile your claim that islam is any worse than christianity?

To many christians and muslims, this is a holy war between christianity and islam. from every angle except for yours, this is the mass slaughter of muslims by christians.

Nobody wants YOU to defend christianity woodie, as a christian I wont even defend wat has been done by some people in its name
Irrespective, Jesus teachings and the people who wrote the letters and books never advocated killing anyone

But worse still, you admitting or trying to sell the US as a Christian nation
You will say anything to justify an argument and your position.

American military is christian, really, you are just trolling now

I would expect no better from you in these arguments, you will do whatever, typical fundamentalist

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
Islam and christianity share the same god. Yes the abrahamic religions are all sexist, racist and homophobic. Seems a bit rich for one to criticise the other.

Point to a modern religion other than Islam who does what Islam does today?

Islam is a cancer upon the Earth compared to ALL OTHER religions.

Have you seen what the American military has been up to for the last 20 years in the middle east and North Africa? In Iraq alone there were 1.5 million civilian casualties. Now add up Afghanistan, Libya, Pakistan, Iran, and everything in between. How many millions of people have American Christians killed in the last 20 years?

I’m in no way defending Islam, just like i won’t defend Christianity. I consider them equally absurd. But for you to say that christians haven’t done anything bad recently, is equally absurd. I’m sure from the middle east’s perspective, they believe Christians are destroying their way of life. (Their way of life is stupid)and it wouldn’t be difficult to demonstrate that it is the fault of christians when our President Bush declares we are a christian nation, and that God is on our side. Right before attacking a country that had nothing to do with the attacks on 911.

You would prob agree that America is a christian nation founded on christian values? President Bush said as much. If you do agree with that, then how do you reconcile your claim that islam is any worse than christianity?

To many christians and muslims, this is a holy war between christianity and islam. from every angle except for yours, this is the mass slaughter of muslims by christians.

Nobody wants YOU to defend christianity woodie, as a christian I wont even defend wat has been done by some people in its name
Irrespective, Jesus teachings and the people who wrote the letters and books never advocated killing anyone

But worse still, you admitting or trying to sell the US as a Christian nation
You will say anything to justify an argument and your position.

American military is christian, really, you are just trolling now

I would expect no better from you in these arguments, you will do whatever, typical fundamentalist

I was hoping you’d show up.

Answer me this.

Is America a christian nation formed with christian values?

a reply to: Woodcarver

You said that in the last 20 YEARS we have killed nearly 20 million people.

Your first source says this:

The overall conclusion reached is that the United States most likely has been responsible since WWII for the deaths of between 20 and 30 million people in wars and conflicts scattered over the world.

Get your facts straight before you come to me with this level of ignorance and misrepresentation of the facts.

You're trying to make it look like we killed 20 million in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I'm open to discussion on these things. I think the fact that we've been deploying there for 18 years is immoral.

I'm willing to discuss that.

But don't bull# me.

Let me quote you again in case you forgot:

In the last 20 years, the US military has killed at least 5 million civilians. That’s not counting enemy combatants or civilians who died from a destabilized govt. that number would be around 20 million.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

I'm saying that a devout Christian violates their faith if they lie per the Bible.

Actually Burdman that's Judaism your thinking of

Christians can lie, if its done in love or to protect someone, the right reason.

Legalism is not christianity

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Woodcarver

You said that in the last 20 YEARS we have killed nearly 20 million people.

Your first source says this:

The overall conclusion reached is that the United States most likely has been responsible since WWII for the deaths of between 20 and 30 million people in wars and conflicts scattered over the world.

Get your facts straight before you come to me with this level of ignorance and misrepresentation of the facts.

I’ll admit my timeframe was off a bit, but the second source claims closer to 30 million, so i’ll stick with my point that America has killed around 20-30 million people in the past few decades. thank you.

originally posted by: Woodcarver


Answer me this.

Is America a christian nation formed with christian values?

I thought it was a republic or something.

I believe in keeping religion and politics separated

Also I think the nation was set up by Native Americans, christianity a latter date

Was the Western culture christian, yes some 2 hundred years ago, is it still.
Not that I can see, its very new age

Sorry, slaps your confirmation bias

a reply to: projectvxn
I doubt the US is singularly responsible, they have had allies
But, not sure

So this is art, huh?

Then I guess I can make a statue of allah taking a stiff one up the backside and call it candy and that is ok?

Cool beanz. I will get right on that.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
Islam and christianity share the same god. Yes the abrahamic religions are all sexist, racist and homophobic. Seems a bit rich for one to criticise the other.

Point to a modern religion other than Islam who does what Islam does today?

Islam is a cancer upon the Earth compared to ALL OTHER religions.

Have you seen what the American military has been up to for the last 20 years in the middle east and North Africa? In Iraq alone there were 1.5 million civilian casualties. Now add up Afghanistan, Libya, Pakistan, Iran, and everything in between. How many millions of people have American Christians killed in the last 20 years?

I’m in no way defending Islam, just like i won’t defend Christianity. I consider them equally absurd. But for you to say that christians haven’t done anything bad recently, is equally absurd. I’m sure from the middle east’s perspective, they believe Christians are destroying their way of life. (Their way of life is stupid)and it wouldn’t be difficult to demonstrate that it is the fault of christians when our President Bush declares we are a christian nation, and that God is on our side. Right before attacking a country that had nothing to do with the attacks on 911.

You would prob agree that America is a christian nation founded on christian values? President Bush said as much. If you do agree with that, then how do you reconcile your claim that islam is any worse than christianity?

To many christians and muslims, this is a holy war between christianity and islam. from every angle except for yours, this is the mass slaughter of muslims by christians.

Nobody wants YOU to defend christianity woodie, as a christian I wont even defend wat has been done by some people in its name
Irrespective, Jesus teachings and the people who wrote the letters and books never advocated killing anyone

But worse still, you admitting or trying to sell the US as a Christian nation
You will say anything to justify an argument and your position.

American military is christian, really, you are just trolling now

I would expect no better from you in these arguments, you will do whatever, typical fundamentalist

the US military is estimated to be around 77% christian of various faiths
answers.yahoo.com...;_ylt=A0PDsBznCThcRJUAEsxx.9w4;_ylu=X3o'___'ByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--?qid=20091002171 231AAHfoGz&p=percentage%20of%20american%20military%20that%20is%20christian

a reply to: Woodcarver

America has killed around 20-30 million people in the past few decades. thank you.

You're a straight-up lying propagandist.

How many people were killed in the 2nd World War alone?

Those numbers are from the Second World War to, presumably, today.

Not just that last few decades, but 78 years worth of war.

You do not get to just brush that off as if it means nothing that you just purposefully lie to everyone trying to make it seem like this happened only in the Middle East.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver


Answer me this.

Is America a christian nation formed with christian values?

I thought it was a republic or something.

I believe in keeping religion and politics separated

Also I think the nation was set up by Native Americans, christianity a latter date

Was the Western culture christian, yes some 2 hundred years ago, is it still.
Not that I can see, its very new age

Sorry, slaps your confirmation bias

How many of our past presidents were outspoken christians?

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver


Answer me this.

Is America a christian nation formed with christian values?

I thought it was a republic or something.

I believe in keeping religion and politics separated

Also I think the nation was set up by Native Americans, christianity a latter date

Was the Western culture christian, yes some 2 hundred years ago, is it still.
Not that I can see, its very new age

Sorry, slaps your confirmation bias

How many of our past presidents were outspoken christians?

I thought it was a republic or something.

I believe in keeping religion and politics separated

Also I think the nation was set up by Native Americans, christianity a latter date

Was the Western culture christian, yes some 2 hundred years ago, is it still.
Not that I can see, its very new age

Wasnt that what we were discussing not past presidents
Never stay on topic when your argument is looking stupid


As for past presidents, not my country, dont know, dont care

Are you telling me Woodster that the US is a christian country?
Yes or no