Test of steel prototype for border wall showed it could be sawed through

a reply to: Scepticaldem
That is the number Trump is throwing around.

a reply to: Scepticaldem

"You want America to become a place people no longer want to come too?"

Nope that's just nonsensical, counterproductive, and would promote nothing but stagnation.

"That is a very Pelosi like answer to this problem.

Possibly because it seems to be your own interpretation and answer.

"Can you explain further?"

Ile give it a go, it's an old story, going something along the lines of because the distribution of wealth and power is so disproportionate from one nation to the next, people are going to want to come and get there share of the stuff.

Quite simple really.

I tire of hearing the talking point that a wall is useless because people will come through tunnels and drugs will be flown over the fence using drones. Neither of these statements stand up to any amount of critical thinking.

First, tons of illegal drugs come over the border in areas where there is no barrier. How much? Who knows, but I know that if I'm some big cartel looking to bring in tons of heroin I'm going to look for the area of least resistance ie: a place that has no barrier and little patrols.

Having a barrier instantly stops this from happening and forces cartels to seek other avenues to use. Drones cannot fill this void for many reasons. You'd need thousands of them delivering loads to make up the losses. Critical thinkers know that if drones could be used to any viable level, they'd already be used in lieu of other methods. I'm sure some are used, but the flow would decline tremendously with a barrier.

The idea that there will be hundreds of tunnels under the border is just idiocy. In most areas where the barrier is to be built it is desolate. Are we to assume that some enterprising cartel is going to bring a hundred workers and equipment to areas that are desert-like without generating scrutiny from Border Patrol?? They'd have to start a tunnel miles from the border and it would take them a decade of digging. It will certainly be tried, but again, this will definitely hamper the ability to transport large amounts for some time until further ideas can be implemented.

A barrier instantly stops huge flows of illegal immigrants from just walking across the border. The idea that they'll use tunnels is also idiocy. Cartels have the funds and wherewithall to build such things. Cartels are not in the business of transporting large numbers of illegals because the money just isn't there. Why transport an illegal for $5k when you can transport 1kg of coc aine for 10x that??

Cartels also will not risk having a tunnel found becuase some mother getting interrogated by Border Patrol told them the location of how she got in. People tell, drugs don't. People that bring illegals over now can't build tunnels either because they'd have to jack up the price of entry to illegals who will not be able to afford it. Besides, if tunnels were that easily used, there'd be no illegals caught anywhere because they'd all be using these "tunnels".

A barrier that extends 20ft into the ground, coupled with radar for drones and sensors for vibration stops 100% of drugs and tunnels in the areas they are built. No tunnel can be dug that deep, and vibration sensors would stop sawing at ground level and below.

The thought that NO WALL is better than A WALL when it comes to stopping or slowing down ANYTHING is lunacy. Politics aside, a wall just makes more sense than anything else because it never leaves, never falls asleep, never misses anything, never complains about a raise, and always shows up for work.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy



Personally, i really don't see this working until America addresses the reasons the people choose to come.

And pray tell, what is that reason they choose to come here?

a reply to: pavil

The same reason the European people colonized the place.

An opportunity of a better life and existence springs to mind.

Probably the very things that they pray for to tell the truth.

Why else would you imagine?

originally posted by: MrBuddy
I tire of hearing the talking point that a wall is useless because people will come through tunnels and drugs will be flown over the fence using drones. Neither of these statements stand up to any amount of critical thinking.

First, tons of illegal drugs come over the border in areas where there is no barrier. How much? Who knows, but I know that if I'm some big cartel looking to bring in tons of heroin I'm going to look for the area of least resistance ie: a place that has no barrier and little patrols.

Having a barrier instantly stops this from happening and forces cartels to seek other avenues to use. Drones cannot fill this void for many reasons. You'd need thousands of them delivering loads to make up the losses. Critical thinkers know that if drones could be used to any viable level, they'd already be used in lieu of other methods. I'm sure some are used, but the flow would decline tremendously with a barrier.

The idea that there will be hundreds of tunnels under the border is just idiocy. In most areas where the barrier is to be built it is desolate. Are we to assume that some enterprising cartel is going to bring a hundred workers and equipment to areas that are desert-like without generating scrutiny from Border Patrol?? They'd have to start a tunnel miles from the border and it would take them a decade of digging. It will certainly be tried, but again, this will definitely hamper the ability to transport large amounts for some time until further ideas can be implemented.

A barrier instantly stops huge flows of illegal immigrants from just walking across the border. The idea that they'll use tunnels is also idiocy. Cartels have the funds and wherewithall to build such things. Cartels are not in the business of transporting large numbers of illegals because the money just isn't there. Why transport an illegal for $5k when you can transport 1kg of coc aine for 10x that??

Cartels also will not risk having a tunnel found becuase some mother getting interrogated by Border Patrol told them the location of how she got in. People tell, drugs don't. People that bring illegals over now can't build tunnels either because they'd have to jack up the price of entry to illegals who will not be able to afford it. Besides, if tunnels were that easily used, there'd be no illegals caught anywhere because they'd all be using these "tunnels".

A barrier that extends 20ft into the ground, coupled with radar for drones and sensors for vibration stops 100% of drugs and tunnels in the areas they are built. No tunnel can be dug that deep, and vibration sensors would stop sawing at ground level and below.

The thought that NO WALL is better than A WALL when it comes to stopping or slowing down ANYTHING is lunacy. Politics aside, a wall just makes more sense than anything else because it never leaves, never falls asleep, never misses anything, never complains about a raise, and always shows up for work.

Reality check. What will it cost us taxpayers, because you know it will. Couldn't money and good will be saved by increasing the number of border guards along the border? And don't say you know what it would cost in dollars because you don't. That study has been made. Financially it makes no sense to build a wall. What will it cost just to maintain it?? We don't know that either. This should be financially laid out before demanding it be built.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Scepticaldem

"You want America to become a place people no longer want to come too?"

Nope that's just nonsensical, counterproductive, and would promote nothing but stagnation.

"That is a very Pelosi like answer to this problem.

Possibly because it seems to be your own interpretation and answer.

"Can you explain further?"

Ile give it a go, it's an old story, going something along the lines of because the distribution of wealth and power is so disproportionate from one nation to the next, people are going to want to come and get there share of the stuff.

Quite simple really.

I agree completely! We need to redistribute the wealth is what we are fighting for now! Right?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Scepticaldem

"You want America to become a place people no longer want to come too?"

Nope that's just nonsensical, counterproductive, and would promote nothing but stagnation.

"That is a very Pelosi like answer to this problem.

Possibly because it seems to be your own interpretation and answer.

"Can you explain further?"

Ile give it a go, it's an old story, going something along the lines of because the distribution of wealth and power is so disproportionate from one nation to the next, people are going to want to come and get there share of the stuff.

Quite simple really.

Instead of putting money into savings, from now on I'm going to lead by example and start sending my extra cash to the Mexican government. They will figure out what to do with it and then the people will stop trying to come here. Screw the stupid wall!

a reply to: Lynzer


You're right, I don't know what the cost will be to taxpayers...and neither does anyone else. However, using common sense, we can make some pretty good assumptions.

To properly provide REAL border security using human beings along hundreds of miles just isn't feasible real world. How many agents does it take? 100? 1000? 100,000? Can you imagine the cost of agents, vehicles, training and the supplies needed?? Once these agents catch illegals trying to enter, the taxpayer is then forced to house them while they claim "asylum" rights. How much does that cost? We'll never know but common sense tells me it costs a ton over a decade.

Let's move away from the general talking points. How about the unseen damage that illegals do to citizens. There are tons of articles out there about this, but I only included one because it's a mainstream news outlet:

www.nbcnews.com...

How many Americans face the possibility of having their identity stolen or tax returns filed in their name? Noone knows the true number, but again, common sense says that over a decade, it's a huge amount.

How about the idea that immigrants aren't a drain on the welfare system? Libs will tell you that they cannot receive benefits. This is an outright lie.

www.usatoday.com...

I'm thinking that the cost savings of not having to hire more Federal employees to monitor a border coupled with the savings of a drastic drop in Social Services for people that don't belong here, along with the drop in identity theft allowing illegals to get Federal tax returns will put a huge dent in the cost of a wall over a decade.

While your "Good will" chatter sounds admirable, noone is buying that crap anymore. It's such nonsense to hear a politician claim that, "This is not what America stands for" as pertaining to illegal immigrants. Please direct me to anywhere in the Constitution or Bill of Rights where it states that America agrees to pay for everyone that sneaks across her borders.
Actually, America survives or falls on the rule of law. As a citizen, if I break a law I go to prison. As an illegal, I break a law just crossing the border and I'm given housing, food, money, and not sent to prison. Hello Sanctuary City!!

The stark reality that Liberals just can't understand is that by and large, people care the most about themselves and their loved ones...PERIOD. While most don't wish ill will upon immigrants, they don't feel that their needs outweigh the needs of themselves and their loved ones.

Generalizing how most Americans feel by using a poll of 2 thousand of them is just nonsense. None of these outlets know "Most Americans" anyway. Claiming that "Most Americans think A" while not having spoken to Most Americans makes zero sense using any type of critical thinking.

Please respond with some sort of factual information as I came to you, otherwise word-vomit your gibberish elsewhere.

a reply to: JimNasium

Like I said

bring a whole new meaning to the De-evolution of Language

It is actually a computer program that scrambles any 3rd or greater viewer(s).

"scrambles any 3rd or greater viewer(s)"
Whatever the hell that means....
I rest my case.



No wait....
"Whatever the Hell tat Meens...." Am I doing it right?

It’s an argument for the Open Borders Society. Just this morning we saw on the news that the Mayor of San Antonio has put in a bid for a Presidential run. His mother was one of the original founders of the Nationall Council of La Raza and he’s an Open Borders/pro Nafta advocate. What screams Soros more than that !
Any kind of a Wall is a deterrent to an Open Borders Society. These people know this and that is why they come up with various arguments including the one that is currently being used.... that the wall is symbolic of racism.

originally posted by: Scepticaldem

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Scepticaldem

"You want America to become a place people no longer want to come too?"

Nope that's just nonsensical, counterproductive, and would promote nothing but stagnation.

"That is a very Pelosi like answer to this problem.

Possibly because it seems to be your own interpretation and answer.

"Can you explain further?"

Ile give it a go, it's an old story, going something along the lines of because the distribution of wealth and power is so disproportionate from one nation to the next, people are going to want to come and get there share of the stuff.

Quite simple really.

I agree completely! We need to redistribute the wealth is what we are fighting for now! Right?

Exactly. The Mayor of San Antonio just said we need to bring the American Promise to the rest of the world. What he means is redistribute American wealth to the rest of the world and do it through Open Borders policy.

low grade rolled steel can have a lot of slag in it and be very hard on saw blades.

They can also put vibration detectors on the fence every 500 feet to pick up the sounds transmited through the steel from the saws as the sounds will travel thround the panels as they are welded togther.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Wutevr gts u thru de nite. Better?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: pavil

The same reason the European people colonized the place.

An opportunity of a better life and existence springs to mind.

Probably the very things that they pray for to tell the truth.

Why else would you imagine?

They can come here legally, by the proscribed methods of applying for citizenship or entry.

So the reasons they enter illegally is to have the American Dream?

Do we just let in the whole world to have the American Dream? How do you think that will turn out for the rest of American Citizens?

Please tell me how you would stop the illegal Immigration over our Southern Border. Don't give me the "Well most illegals are overstaying their visas" argument. We can deal with them in another manner since we have a little paper trail with them initially entering via a legal way.

How would you stop the illegal entries via the Southern Border?

a reply to: pavil

"So the reasons they enter illegally is to have the American Dream?"

Is the American dream an opportunity of a better life and existence?

"Do we just let in the whole world to have the American Dream? How do you think that will turn out for the rest of American Citizens?"

When we live in an information age where the next continent is realistically only a few hours away how do you imagine it will turn out anyway given the extensive infostructure we have in place for the very purpose of transporting goods and people across the planet?

"Please tell me how you would stop the illegal Immigration over our Southern Border. Don't give me the "Well most illegals are overstaying their visas" argument. We can deal with them in another manner since we have a little paper trail with them initially entering via a legal way."

You won't be able to retard the flow of people in any kind of meaningful manner, that's the point I'm afraid.

"How would you stop the illegal entries via the Southern Border?"

Not with walls that won't work, that's a given, but by addressing the problem of the reason they come.

That better life and existence, or American dream as you care to put it, has to be available, worldwide, which it is to a fashion as long as you have the monies and means to finance such a lifestyle.

How do you stop them? You give them what they want, else you simply won't stop them.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: pavil

"So the reasons they enter illegally is to have the American Dream?"

Is the American dream an opportunity of a better life and existence?

"Do we just let in the whole world to have the American Dream? How do you think that will turn out for the rest of American Citizens?"

When we live in an information age where the next continent is realistically only a few hours away how do you imagine it will turn out anyway given the extensive infostructure we have in place for the very purpose of transporting goods and people across the planet?

"Please tell me how you would stop the illegal Immigration over our Southern Border. Don't give me the "Well most illegals are overstaying their visas" argument. We can deal with them in another manner since we have a little paper trail with them initially entering via a legal way."

You won't be able to retard the flow of people in any kind of meaningful manner, that's the point I'm afraid.

"How would you stop the illegal entries via the Southern Border?"

Not with walls that won't work, that's a given, but by addressing the problem of the reason they come.

That better life and existence, or American dream as you care to put it, has to be available, worldwide, which it is to a fashion as long as you have the monies and means to finance such a lifestyle.

How do you stop them? You give them what they want, else you simply won't stop them.

We are not obligated to give everybody what they want, especially when they crash the border making demands. Progressives and RINOS alike are enabling and giving incentives. That needs to
Be stemmed. Yes walls do deter. Yes there are tunnels but they can be collapsed. It is no ones right to come here and be taken care of with taxpayer money just because they desire it. Why don’t they try to make their home country great using our model. There are Marxists using the caravans to achieve their goal of works socialism. They destroy the economic system wherever they are and they want to come here with all their flags and make us be like that which they are fleeing. That is really nuts.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

You cant flee the planet, only free the planet, just a thought to consider.

The thing that's really nuts is imagining anything otherwise.

It is a class war you are fighting not a race war and when the economic system is designed and perverted to do nothing more than facilitate the 1%ers and keep the status quo in place your war should be against them.

originally posted by: pavil
Do we just let in the whole world to have the American Dream?

Why not? If people want to come here and contribute here, why should we say no? Afraid of the competition?

How would you stop the illegal entries via the Southern Border?

I don't think we should, but if we were going to... goto a cashless society, and require people to be here legally to use banks. That would eliminate their ability to be paid, or to buy and sell anything.

a reply to: Aazadan

"goto a cashless society, and require people to be here legally to use banks."

And in an ideal world where the banks and bankers were rather less corrupt and could be trusted not to do all but try and get blood from a stone, that idea may actually have merit.

To be rather frank its the direction in which the world is headed anyways, kicking and screaming if need be, but its in the post so to speak.

"That would eliminate their ability to be paid, or to buy and sell anything."

Supply and demand won't allow such, all that would happen is new grey and black market economies would arise to facilitate the people who could not or choose not to use the system.