Homepage What Happened When A Trump Supporter Challenged Me About the Wall

a reply to: samuelsson

Yea, Not my job.

Satisfied my partner, up in the middle of the night half drunk, trying to answer some of the responses here.

Don't care if you are not satisfied. I'm sure I'm not going to change your mind anyway. Tomorrow I will read Grambler's post and respond to it. Not up for it tonight. ( it's a long post and I will read and consider what he say's carefully not just reply with a boiler plate response)

I believe the wall is a simplistic solution to a minor problem.

I understand you don't agree and I know that I am not going to convince you any different. Even if I have solid proof you will debate it. That's fine, that's your choice.

We live in a country where you and I are free to disagree, vote for who we want, and argue our opinions as we please. In any given election the margarine of victory is a few percentage points. We need to find a way to debate our differences without demonizing those who we disagree with and continue creating a country we can ALL be proud of. That is the only way we can continue to be great.

Don't expect me to live up to your expectations. It ain't gonna happen.

But, I think we both want a great, prosperous nation, that can make you and I and even some immigrants happy, maybe even make the world a better place.

originally posted by: Carcharadon

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Carcharadon

You're on facebook and twitter, are there any other lefty social media sites you are addicted to ?

I'm not on Twitter. Stop listening to the voices in your head and get back on your meds please

Real life and Facebook.

I clearly typed those. Nada about Twitter. Also why would you think I'm addicted to Facebook? Because I go on it a couple times a day to check on hockey, hiking and Warhammer 40k pages and sometimes have political debates? Lots of assumptions in that measly one sentence drive by hey fella?

Nice self-burn champ.

You use facebook, a site you hate because of it's conservative censorship as you believe it to be right?

a reply to: TheRedneck

So, walls work. How much wall will $5 billion dollars build. How much will that affect the US?

2. Most illegal immigrants are “overstayers.”

So, walls won't help here. Democrat's have agreed to negotiate on border security, but, shut down the government until we get a wall. (need a wall for political win).

the drugs they caught were coming in through legal points of entry

maybe no system is perfect (walls or...) so they are only catching a fraction of any point of entry. How much do they miss?

4. It’s environmentally impractical.

Not that easy. if you don't care about the environment that's up to you but it don't work that way.

A wall would forces the U.S. government to take land from private citizens in eminent domain battles.ext

I would be PO'ed if the government took my land. Just say'n.

I'm gonna bet most livestock are being stolen by US citizens. No proof so I'll be generous and give you that one. (not really)

Enough, I'm tired. have it your way.

a reply to: villagesmithie

Funny how people claim walls do not work and have no alternative. But lets look at the facts anytime you need to defend a location you build fences and walls. Look at any military installation they always have a fence odd if they dont work isnt it
? Then our prisons how do we make sure people do not escape why we build a wall that way they cant just go where they want.

Then we have the Israeli border fence which cut down on border crossings by 99 percent and we havnt even mentioned egypts border wall with Gaza to keep them out. bottom line is walls work we have been using them for thousands of years. If they didnt work then we would not see them everywhere like gated communities etc.

a reply to: dragonridr

So Israel's wall has pretty much solved there problems?

How often do you hear about conflicts there?

How much money do they get from US every year?

Who will be giving money to US to continue to defend our border?

a reply to: [post=24081579]villagesmithie[/pos

Who will be giving money to US to continue to defend our border?

Oh yea. Mexico.

We have to control our borders. A wall is just a part of a solution. Part of the solution is get a better border security on the south side of the border. I want the border secure, no bad guys allowed in. 100% closure for a time will also help. Our law enforcement people need to do their jobs even if it means use of force. There are proper ways to enter America. Those rules need to be followed.

a reply to: villagesmithie

"The article linked here is not mine but I think sums up the arguments against a wall between the US and Mexico very well. "

I'm not trying to argue with you. I read some highlights.... looks bad.

originally posted by: villagesmithie
a reply to: dragonridr

So Israel's wall has pretty much solved there problems?

How often do you hear about conflicts there?

How much money do they get from US every year?

Who will be giving money to US to continue to defend our border?

Its pretty much eliminated attacks coming over the West Bank Border into Israel proper. That was the reason it was built. Look into the history of why it was built and the results.

a reply to: Lumenari

YES!!! What he said!

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Carcharadon

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Carcharadon

You're on facebook and twitter, are there any other lefty social media sites you are addicted to ?

I'm not on Twitter. Stop listening to the voices in your head and get back on your meds please

Real life and Facebook.

I clearly typed those. Nada about Twitter. Also why would you think I'm addicted to Facebook? Because I go on it a couple times a day to check on hockey, hiking and Warhammer 40k pages and sometimes have political debates? Lots of assumptions in that measly one sentence drive by hey fella?

Nice self-burn champ.

You use facebook, a site you hate because of it's conservative censorship as you believe it to be right?

When have I said anything about hating Facebook? Never that's when.

Stop assuming things.

a reply to: villagesmithie

So, walls work. How much wall will $5 billion dollars build. How much will that affect the US?

Not a lot at first, overall. It takes time to build a wall. President Trump has estimated the total cost at $25 billion and is asking for $5 billion in 2019, so I would say about 20% of the ~2000 mile border, or somewhere in the vicinity of 400 miles of wall.

Depending on where they locate that 400 miles of wall, it could help a substantial bit or very little; but that's not the point. Construction has to stop somewhere; completion is the goal and cannot be accomplished without starting. 400 miles a year is moving pretty fast to my thinking.

So, walls won't help here. Democrat's have agreed to negotiate on border security, but, shut down the government until we get a wall. (need a wall for political win).

A wall is not the extent of border security, but it is an integral part. A car is much more than wheels, but a car without wheels is not going to do much good now, is it?

Also, exactly what negotiating have the Democrats done? I missed that. So far, all I have seen is a refusal to even discuss the issue.

maybe no system is perfect (walls or...) so they are only catching a fraction of any point of entry. How much do they miss?

That's why most homes have fences, plus walls, plus locks, plus alarms, plus police presence. It's called a multi-layer approach. Leave out the walls from the above example and the rest doesn't do a lot of good.

As for how many drugs make it across? Enough to create the opioid crisis. Is that not enough to justify trying to stop it?

Not that easy. if you don't care about the environment that's up to you but it don't work that way.

Don't get snide with me, whipper-snapper. I've probably done more for the environment in the past year than you have in your entire life. I know well how nature works; I live in (and care for) undisturbed nature every day of my life.

Now, care to tell me exactly what you think I don't know about in that post? I addressed the migration issue, so please, inform me on how else a wall is going to affect nature.

I would be PO'ed if the government took my land. Just say'n.

So would I. But that's why we (and other countries) have Eminent Domain. So one person can't selfishly harm the entire nation. You might be PO'd at the government forcing you to sell your land, but I'd bet you're quite happy when you have roads to drive to town on. The land those roads are on was once owned by someone.

I'm gonna bet most livestock are being stolen by US citizens. No proof so I'll be generous and give you that one. (not really)

You'd lose. I know people who used to live on the border. That's why they don't live there any more.

Rustlers from Mexico have realized that all they need to do is drive the cattle across the border and there's nothing the US can do about it. Mexico certainly isn't cooperating with us to solve the problem.

Enough, I'm tired. have it your way.

I see a pattern here...

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: villagesmithie

The only gamesmanship I am seeing is "we supported it before but if Trumps wants it then it's bad."

As far as walls not working, we should talk to Nancy Pelosi about that.

Google earth her house in San Francisco.

You will find around it a wall... one described as "stone and rather massive."

Framing an argument about immigration being OK because our ancestors did it is intellectually dishonest.

300 years ago, do you think that people migrated into this country, settled down on food stamps and found a construction job under the table?

100 years ago, do you think that immigrants were not vetted, given a basic medical exam and then turned away if they didn't pass?

And now to today... where we have laws on the books that would be somewhat adequate if it wasn't for political activists wearing black robes interpreting and basically writing laws from the bench?

As for the economy, the lesser estimate of what it costs us people paying taxes in the United States for illegal immigrants is 250 Billion dollars a year. Direct costs, not indirect, which would push it to the 500 billion dollar a year amount.

Yet Democrats, who have never in my lifetime given a rat's ass about spending suddenly can't support 5 billion dollars for something they voted to spend 15 billion on not 10 years ago.

Your entire OP is baseless and partisan.

We won't even get into the opioid epidemic that is mostly fueled by an open southern border, sex and human trafficking, gang members and terrorists wandering up north for the good life.

So yes, in closing, it is just a political game.

On one side, you have a President that wants to do what he was elected for.

On the other side, you have bad politicians that have no issue with their own citizens being murdered, raped, robbed and kidnapped because if they keep the border open, they get a constant flood of undocumented Democratic voters to keep them in power.

. This is awesome , I wish I could remember to say this to every person whom has gotten triggered and tried to fight me on this.

I agree it's politics. They are out of touch with the struggles of the majority of the country. Does anybody remember when the Democrats were against un-lawful immigration, for border protection, and for the working class America? Now they're opposite and for select special interest groups that will ensure them more votes in the future.

a reply to: villagesmithie


So according to you the caravans are fake.
The more you reply, the worse you look man.

originally posted by: Carcharadon

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Carcharadon

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Carcharadon

You're on facebook and twitter, are there any other lefty social media sites you are addicted to ?

I'm not on Twitter. Stop listening to the voices in your head and get back on your meds please

Real life and Facebook.

I clearly typed those. Nada about Twitter. Also why would you think I'm addicted to Facebook? Because I go on it a couple times a day to check on hockey, hiking and Warhammer 40k pages and sometimes have political debates? Lots of assumptions in that measly one sentence drive by hey fella?

Nice self-burn champ.

You use facebook, a site you hate because of it's conservative censorship as you believe it to be right?

When have I said anything about hating Facebook? Never that's when.

Stop assuming things.

My bad, I thought you hated it because you consider it a leftists platform.

originally posted by: Ceeker63
We have to control our borders. A wall is just a part of a solution. Part of the solution is get a better border security on the south side of the border. I want the border secure, no bad guys allowed in. 100% closure for a time will also help. Our law enforcement people need to do their jobs even if it means use of force. There are proper ways to enter America. Those rules need to be followed.

Exactly, and everyone wants to reform the system, but since so much of the system is outright ignored, how can we know what and where for sure reform is needed?

Surely it does need work, but until we know how the whole thing works in operation because it's all followed and we see it in actual practice, trying to fix it is a fool's errand. We might break things worse, fix what doesn't need fixing or break what was working as intended without any clear idea of what should actually be happening.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Carcharadon

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Carcharadon

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Carcharadon

You're on facebook and twitter, are there any other lefty social media sites you are addicted to ?

I'm not on Twitter. Stop listening to the voices in your head and get back on your meds please

Real life and Facebook.

I clearly typed those. Nada about Twitter. Also why would you think I'm addicted to Facebook? Because I go on it a couple times a day to check on hockey, hiking and Warhammer 40k pages and sometimes have political debates? Lots of assumptions in that measly one sentence drive by hey fella?

Nice self-burn champ.

You use facebook, a site you hate because of it's conservative censorship as you believe it to be right?

When have I said anything about hating Facebook? Never that's when.

Stop assuming things.

My bad, I thought you hated it because you consider it a leftists platform.

Not many things that I hate in this world.

Communism
Islam.
George Bush/Barack Obama/Dick Cheney/Hillary.
Minnesota Vikings.
Calgary Flames (hockey team in the NHL).
Snakes.
Spiders.
The Ocean if I can't see land lol.

That's about it really. There's not much I like about Facebook but it is handy. Twitter is a cesspool of hate and negativity, I was on it for 2 days.

No harm, no foul man. Things might get heated but I don't hate anyone here. Well there is one person but I'll probably get in trouble if I say her name lol.

Take care.