6th Generation Fighter Meta Thread

USN Next Generation Fighter Budget line:

180 0605285N Next Generation Fighter 06 20,698 20,698

Last year it was $5M.

Source:

comptroller.defense.gov...

Wonder if they are using NASA and Darpas designs from the 90s for the airframe?

aviationweek.com...

a reply to: anzha

Two separate think tanks are recommending Italy join team tempest. One recommends forcing a merge at the end of the tech demos:

www.defensenews.com...

FINALLY!


FY20 $1B
FY21 $1.046B
FY22 $1.545B
FY23 $1.71B
FY24 $1.267B

Deferral of the development of specific Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) classified technologies results in a realignment of $357M in FY 2020, and $6,646M across the FYDP, to fund the development of the most promising classified technologies, which improve lethality by providing expanded capabilities.

So! Between the two bits here - the funding profile and the above statement - it appears they are either dumping a specific set of tech for the "A" model or delaying the entire program a couple years compared to what they originally planned.

Let the bun fight begin!

apps.dtic.mil...


addded:

Slight monetary hanky panky?

This program element may include necessary civilian pay expenses required to manage, execute, and deliver NGAD capabilities. The use of such program funds would . be in addition to the civilian pay expenses budgeted in PE's: 0605826F, 0605827F, 0605828F, 0605829F 0605830F, 0605831F, 0605832F, and 0605898F.

NGAD civilian pay is executed in PE 020711F

a reply to: anzha

I think they should kick the can OR develop an F-22 analogue loaded with 100% ready technology from the F-35 or other programs that lets them retire the Raptors and buy a reasonably priced fleet full.

One or the other. Wait for the next gen, or go all on on mature systems. Maybe with enough SWAP-C as needed for foreseeable next gen technology to give some growth potential.

But if the dream is still a real bleeding edge by 2030, they need their heads examined.

Navy, starting slower (really!?!).

FY20: $20M
FY21: $55M
FY22: $111M
FY23: $255M
FY24: $371M

FY20 plans:

Conduct systems engineering and mission effectiveness analysis to sufficiently review capabilities of the
proposed family-of-system alternatives. This includes analysis and support of Advanced Development Program
Office planning. Products include data sets, automated tools, and decision aids necessary to provide OPNAV
and OSD the information to perform acquisition planning in support of warfighter capability requirements.
Conduct briefing support as required by excursions at the direction of the AoA executive steering group

Goal is a 2035 fighter (or family of systems). Big bump if any of this is accurate won't be to FY25 or FY26.

apps.dtic.mil...

a reply to: RadioRobert

They may be kicking the can a bit. The funding profile is down about $600M over what they had originally planned.

If they are continuing on the 'by 2030 fighter,' then my bet is that they are cutting out the DEW bit. The USAF (public) DEW budget has been cut in general this year.

However, they may have wanted more time to develop the tech, but it's still expensive, so....at least a 2 year delay.

It should also be noted the AETD engine effort seems to be nearing its end:

FY20: $878M
FY21: $637M
FY22: $0M

That would signal (to me) either they have decided to move to procurement or end it.

There is this interesting tidbit:

Continue component rig activities. Continue technology, affordability, and sustainability studies. Continue engine fabrication. Begin engine assessments. Continue additional airframe integration/adaptive propulsion design efforts. More details can be provided in an appropriate forum.

apps.dtic.mil...

TLDR: US Navy's AOA for the Sixth Gen will complete in the next couple months.

Just as the first Block III F/A-18E/F Super Hornets are rolling off the Boeing production line, the Navy is launching a new plan for what comes next, senior aviators told lawmakers Thursday.


The Navy is finalizing its analysis of alternatives (AOA), due within the next two month, Rear Adm. Scott Conn, the Navy’s director of air warfare (OPNAV N98), said during a House Armed Services tactical air and land forces subcommittee hearing.

Three years ago, the Navy had started an AoA requirements study for the Next-Generation Air Dominance program. The goal was to replace the capabilities of the Super Hornets and the electronic attack EA-18G Growlers. At the time, Navy officials said the study would evaluate manned, unmanned and optionally manned airframes as part of a family of systems.

The report, Conn said at today’s hearing, “will inform future choices reflected in future budget cycles in terms of what do we need to do to get after the lethality that we need at a cost that we can afford.”

news.usni.org...

insidedefense.com...
Interesting to read

aviationweek.com...

Paywall, sadly.

China and the US are walking a fine line right now RE: 6th Gen (esp PCA). They know this is where it's going to matter and it's about who wants to push their desired platform towards production first. It'll be a shame there's not an exportable 5th gen Air Superiority Fighter to compliment the F-35s in the meantime.

With how China games the system of "free markets" and endless state subsidization, this next Cold War is going to suck. At some point the US is going to need to revolutionize how it conducts business on the world stage. As long as China has access to the same markets as everyone else and gets away with what they do, they are going to come out ahead. There is no authority to hold them in check. For christ sake, they are still considered a "Developing Country" under the WTO but are about to field 2 unique stealth platforms? Right.

www.thedrive.com...

There's not enough info for the F-3 to declare it a 5th gen or 6th gen...

news.usni.org...

Lockheed thinks 6th gens might get pewpews.

originally posted by: anzha
news.usni.org...

Lockheed thinks 6th gens might get pewpews.

Would be nice if the 6th gens could get a dedicated laser UCAV companion that can hang behind the FEBA and blast-on-demand.

a reply to: Masisoar

We would need to start a Future Order of Battle thread to discuss that.

My bet is will see a lot of loyal wingmen of different stripes: huge swarms of Valkyries (for every B-21, you can buy 180 to 270 Valkyries...let that sink in), large numbers of a modest Loyal Wingman (like the Boeing one, which you can get around 54 for the price of a B-21) and then a number of high end LW, probably two or three per NGAD.

I also think the era of the "low end" manned fighter (of the high-low mix) will be coming to the end with the F-35. I'd speculate we will see the USAF A model end with around 700 bought and a D model rolled in, bringing some 6th gen tech in, but probably getting no more than 500 built, if that.

As for the NAG/PCA/whatever? There probably won't be more than 300 of them.

Not sure if it counts as 6th Gen. but thought it was interesting. Ignore if not.

For the first time in aviation history, an aircraft has been manoeuvred in flight using supersonically blown air. BAE say this process removes the need for complex movable flight control surfaces. In a series of ground-breaking flight trials that took place in the skies above north-west Wales, the MAGMA unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) demonstrated two innovative flow control technologies which could revolutionise future aircraft design.

BAE demonstrate ‘blown air’ flight technologies

a reply to: anzha

Agreed, affordable UCAV companions for future C2/AR platforms could also be a possibility to increase survivability.

Boom/Drone Operators could be one and the same from where they sit.
You were a generation or two too early Zaph!!

a reply to: Masisoar

Future UCAVs are not going to be like the Predator. You will give them a task and they will do it. No remote operation, really.