Anti-Trump dossier author was hired to help Hillary challenge 2016 election results

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Extorris

The reason Christopher Steele conducted the research is a separate question from if the intelligence he provided was accurate or not.

Those applying for a previously denied fisa warrant are obligated to ensure the information is accurate.
Using circular reporting and the dossier to obtain a fisa warrant on an american citizen was fraud upon the fisa court.
As I posted previously the fbi acted as a goon squad against the sitting administrations political rival.

Hadn't Carter Page been brought in by the FBI in 2013 for questioning after offering to provide documents to two Russian Agents that were thereafter convicted of espionage?
Did not Page admit he traveled to Moscow in 2016 and met with Russian Officials?
It would be malpractice for the FBI not investigate and a FISA warrant requires probable cause not proof.
The warrant also included over a hundred pages that were redacted.

And Trey Gowdy, whilst bemoaning the FISA warrant was also clear that there was a Russia Investigation before the FISA Warrant and their would have been a Russia investigation without the FISA warrant.

Lastly, we do not yet know what that warrant uncovered. Carter Page might yet be indicted.

From the 2013 case a Russian agent discussing Carter Page.

In one secretly recorded conversation, detailed in the complaint, [suspected Russian spy Victor] Podobnyy said Page “wrote that he is sorry, he went to Moscow and forgot to check his inbox, but he wants to meet when he gets back. I think he is an idiot and forgot who I am. Plus he writes to me in Russian [to] practice the language. He flies to Moscow more often than I do. He got hooked on Gazprom thinking that if they have a project, he could rise up. Maybe he can. I don’t know, but it’s obvious that he wants to earn lots of money.’’

newrepublic.com...

originally posted by: Sabrechucker
I never saw someone try so hard and still loose.

Lol, with all the pandering the liberals do and it's still close.

Midterms Cuomo was trying to get felons to vote

It's been two years I haven't heard a peep out of the left wing fake news that Hillary was challenging the results of the election. Show me footage other then right wing propaganda web sights.

These right wing make believe stories you post are almost a conspiracy in itself are you working for someone?

Hadn't Carter Page been brought in by the FBI in 2013 for questioning after offering to provide documents to two Russian Agents that were thereafter convicted of espionage?

yep
and yet the fisa warrant application was twice DENIED

Did not Page admit he traveled to Moscow in 2016 and met with Russian Officials?

yep and again the fisa warrant application was twice DENIED

a FISA warrant requires probable cause not proof.

perhaps you should research that statement
www.justsecurity.org...
carter page had previously worked WITH the fbi against the russians so they KNEW he was not a foreign agent;
and you understand there is no need for a fisa warrant to spy on the russians, right?

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) allows the FBI to get a warrant from a secret court, known as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC), to conduct electronic surveillance on U.S. persons if they can show probable cause that the target is an “agent of a foreign power” who is “knowingly engag[ing]…in clandestine intelligence activities.” In other words, the government has to show that the target might be spying for a foreign government or organization.

First, the FBI has to conduct a “threat assessment” in order to establish grounds for even opening an investigation on potential FISA subjects.

how is someone who has helped the fbi now all of a sudden a threat?
townhall.com...

Department of Justice court records from 2015 have provided details about how Carter Page cooperated with FBI agents in exposing Russian spies working inside the United States.

The FBI would have to gather evidence to support a the claim that the U.S. target was knowingly working on behalf of a foreign entity.

The fbi full well knew he was not
The fbi fisa application on carter page was twice denied and the fbi entered into fraud upon the court by using the dossier and circular reporting to obtain a warrant on an american citizen that had helped the fbi out in the past.

a reply to: shooterbrody

Could you please link me to the "twice denied" FISA Warrants on Carter Page?

a reply to: Aallanon

Did Hillary contest the results of the 2016 election? Has it ever even appeared like she was going to do that? Who paid for the Dossier first? Who paid for the Dossier third?

After answering those questions you tell me why in the hell it matters that Hillary's campaign paid for this dossier after the Republicans and before the FBI. She didn't contest the election results so I have no idea what you are pushing.

a reply to: Extorris

www.realclearpolitics.com...

DOJ and FBI falsely attested to the FISA court not once, not twice, not thrice, but four (!) separate times that Steele was not the source of Isikoff's September 23 article, which DOJ used to corroborate claims from Steele's dossier. In fact, Steele was the only source.

www.bbc.com...

Their first application, in June, was rejected outright by the judge. They returned with a more narrowly drawn order in July and were rejected again. Finally, before a new judge, the order was granted, on 15 October, three weeks before election day.

a reply to: shooterbrody

Those are two separate FISA warrant applications.

Carter Page's warrant was renewed for a total of 4.

The two rejected warrants had to do with a Russian Bank, not Carter Page.

The initial application for Carter page was not denied from everything I read.

You were incorrect when you stated it had been twice denied.

Neither article you link to states that unless I missed something.

a reply to: Extorris

No
Check the date approved
You are incorrect
Twice denied then the dossier shows and steele leaks it to Yahoo
Both are used as evidence
Then it is re validated 4 times

The fbi crapped the bed on this one
As did the people who rubber stamped it

a reply to: Extorris

You're ignoring the fact that the dossier steele created was nothing but bogus. He wasn't hired to dig up dirt he was hired to make up dirt that could be used to question our election integrity. The hillary campaign paid someone to try to de-legitimize our elections if she lost. Think on that for a while.

ETA:
18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: Extorris

You're ignoring the fact that the dossier steele created was nothing but bogus. He wasn't hired to dig up dirt he was hired to make up dirt that could be used to question our election integrity. The hillary campaign paid someone to try to de-legitimize our elections if she lost. Think on that for a while.

I don't care about motive.
I care about truth.
If the Dossier is BS, then it is BS and useless to delegitimize anyhing.
The material in the Dossier needs to be investigated and proven absolute BS or verified, validated and indisputably proven.
The only failure is not investigating and debunking or validating.
The FBI did exactly what it should do.
Ditto with the Special Counsel whatever the outcome, absolving the Trump Campaign or prosecuting crimes.
Any which way, HRC is not President and never will be.
But criminals deserve prosecution, more so for crimes that any one of us would be rapidly thrown in prison for. If 5K an hour attorneys can't get Paul Manafort off on his crimes, then the a-hole deserves some time in jail.
I am exhausted by President Trump's supporters feeling like they need to defend idiots and criminals.
President Trump won the election. HRC did not and she never will. Criminals deserve justice. NEXT.

a reply to: bluesilver

Russia quite possibly did both. Unless you think their bots etc were harmless and didn't work?

That's what rosenstein said, right in the indictments of the russians.

I think we both know that they would have a multi prong attack to try and gain as much traction as possible in peoples minds and they did that by creating bots etc which created stories/responses which pushed Trump and diminished Hillary

You're ignoring the findings of the special counsel. The russians that they have indicted spent almost zero, attacked both trump and hillary, and did most of their ad spending and bot work after the election.

What you think of Hillary is actually totally unimportant - the important bit is that you had a country trying to influence an election to get 'their' man into power.

Imagine being russia, why would you want Trump over hillary? Hillary can be bought with ease. Why take a chance on trump? Stick to the real world evidence in your response.

And perhaps, with Hillary hiring Christopher Steele it was also probably about finding out just how deeply their tentacles reached

I know, you're stuck in this fantasy world but that's not what happened. Steele fabricated a smear on trump now known as the dossier, it is fake, made up stories. He admitted to the court that he was hired to cast doubt on our election system. He made up stories to do just that. You're trying to rationalize his fairytale, which he wrote to delegitimize a trump election win. Wake up.

Those could well have been the reasons why CS was tasked with finding out what was going on.

One more time, Steele was not tasked with finding out what was going on. He was tasked with finding ways to delegitimize a trump election victory. Quit pretending he wasn't, he has admitted it. That's what this thread is about.

a reply to: Extorris

I don't care about motive.
I care about truth.

You don't care if they hire a fiction writer, to write fiction because you want to believe it's truth? That's what I see here.

If the Dossier is BS, then it is BS and useless to delegitimize anyhing.

Clearly that is not the case. Look at all of the morons that believe the dossier is full of accurate and real information. Look at all of the people that think trump won because of the russians.

The material in the Dossier needs to be investigated and proven absolute BS or verified, validated and indisputably proven. The only failure is not investigating and debunking or validating.

The government spent a lot of time and resources trying to verify it. They could not. The dems spent a ton of resources trying to verify it. They could not. The media has been globetrotting (especially buzzfeed) trying to verify it, they could not. Dem donors have spent millions trying to verify it, they could not.

At what point will you admit unicorns don't exist? How many more millions of dollars and how many more lives must be spent in search of them?

Ditto with the Special Counsel whatever the outcome, absolving the Trump Campaign or prosecuting crimes.

I have this sneaking feeling (based on your acceptance of the unicorn hunt being incomplete) that you won't accept the outcome of that investigation unless it ends with trump in jail or impeached, even if it's not in any way related to the mandate of the investigation.

But criminals deserve prosecution, more so for crimes that any one of us would be rapidly thrown in prison for.

Agreed. So lets see some dems in prison now. We can start with clinton or podesta. I want to see some equal justice. I'm not going to let people I support get thrown in jail for crimes that people I detest get away with, without even a slap on the wrist.

If 5K an hour attorneys can't get Paul Manafort off on his crimes, then the a-hole deserves some time in jail.

Answer me this one question. If manafort had never worked for trump, would he be in jail today?

I am exhausted by President Trump's supporters feeling like they need to defend idiots and criminals.

I take no joy in defending criminal behavior, unfortunately when the justice system becomes multi-tiered, I am left with no choice because eventually those tiers may be stacked against me. When the podesta group goes to jail I will join you in saying that manafort should be in jail. Equal justice. They've committed the same crimes.

President Trump won the election. HRC did not and she never will.

BUT:

Criminals deserve justice.

Did you really not see the hypocrisy of those sentences back to back?

😂 A “college professor” I’m sure he’s an unbiased source....or you could read what Hitler and the Nazis wrote themselves in both the NAZI manifesto and Mein Kampf. They were Socialists, probably more Marxist and definitely leftists. Read their manifesto, it’s kinda scary how many of their beliefs are exactly the same as today’s democrats.....

a reply to: chr0naut

originally posted by: JohnnySpokane
😂 A “college professor” I’m sure he’s an unbiased source....or you could read what Hitler and the Nazis wrote themselves in both the NAZI manifesto and Mein Kampf. They were Socialists, probably more Marxist and definitely leftists. Read their manifesto, it’s kinda scary how many of their beliefs are exactly the same as today’s democrats.....

a reply to: chr0naut

That college professor happens to be correct.

At least we can be fairly sure college history professors have actually studied and given consideration to the facts.

I have read Mein Kampf (an English translation) and the 25 point list of Nazi Party tenets. Both are ultra nationalist, not socialist, because their idea of 'equality' is exclusive, not inclusive.

I was unaware that the Democrats are socialists. I thought they were capitalists, like the Republicans and the Nazi's.

a reply to: chr0naut

Both are ultra nationalist, not socialist, because their idea of 'equality' is exclusive, not inclusive.

So fascism is just socialism for realists? Let me clarify, people are selfish and exclude others they dislike starting at a very young age. So the nazi's said socialism for me, not for thee. Which, ironically, is how it works out in almost every case. The rich and political class reap the benefits of socialism while the rest live in squalor.

a reply to: Aallanon

The truth always comes out in the end. And time and time again, Hillary and Company has been exposed for the pieces of (snip) they are. The more they try to screw Trump, the more they'll just expose themselves. My personal joy is smearing this in the faces of all those "But it was HER turn!" morons who didn't really care about Hillary but loathed Trump for no other reason than people told them to.

a reply to: chr0naut

you can take this anyway you like, but a while ago, before politics, I'd see your avitar in a thread and EXPECT a well reasoned, thoughtful response that would make me think. And I was rarely disappointed. Phage was the same way. Since this, and of course the fact that you both chose the wrong side as I see it, (my bias), I find most of what I read from you to be partisan and weak. I know I never was a great mind here, but some of you used to be. I can only hope that once Trump is gone, the lunatics will go back to the asylum, and the smart folk will return to their bodies.

Politics is a cancer.

When a CNN star calls it a nothing burger off air, and now this, this whole deal is meant to kneecap Trump politically and it has.
Think of how much better America's relationship with the Russians would be if this whole thing didn't exist and wasn't brought up weekly by the MSM.

For this the MSM is complicit with the Deep State which has truly proven to be the enemy of the American people.
If this doesn't end soon, I have a feeling Trump will end it, he can only take so much of this.

Mueller maybe has been asked to stretch this into the 2020 campaign. He needs to be given a hard target date that can't be moved for his final report, it needs to be announced publicly, and followed through with, the I need more time is a lie.
The only reason he needs more time is political, not on evidence being gathered. A first year detective could have done a faster job than him.

originally posted by: Aallanon

This is redemption for many Trump followers and should only re strengthen their support

I believe that you mean "truth followers"--for many of us, it doesn't matter if it's Trump or anyone else, we are just tired of the bullsh*t of the fake foundation of this FISA warrant and special counsel investigation.

How did the FBI not know this?

You don't really believe that they didn't know that, and neither do most of us capable of critical thinking.