Cohen gets 3 years

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
a reply to: rickymouse

Also, recording his client without permission was a highly unethical thing for Cohen to do. Cohen is a worthless slimeball on par with Avenatti. It's ironic that Avenatti was on hand to gloat over this, seeing as how his own life is crashing & burning right now as well.

As it is, Obama collected millions of dollars of contributions illegally, and he just paid a fine. By all rights this shouldn't amount to anymore more than a fine, if that. But since it's Trump you guys want to turn it into a capitol offense.

In the tapes Trump is asking questions and Cohen is telling him what to do to handle it. It wasn't Trump dictating anything really, so Cohen's legal advice to Trump was rather poor for a multi million dollar lawyer...to say the least.

originally posted by: Beaux
There is so much misinformation and unfounded statements in here about this that I had to leave my lurking chair to try and bring a small semblance of fact to this gathering.

First, Cohen was convicted of lying and states that Trump asked him to pay off Daniels. It was illegal because he paid Cohen a monthly amount and listed it as attorney fees/retainer to hide it during the election cycle. He did the same with the Enquirer. That is election fraud since it was done solely to keep it out of the press which is what David Pecker has stated under oath as did Cohen. If you ask someone to shoot another person, that is conspiracy to commit and if they do, you are as guilty as them. The same principle applies to campaign fraud since all monies must be reported for the public record. It's the law.

Obama was fined for late submission of campaign donations which was required within 48 hours. When they missed the deadline, they were fined. Not the same thing, not even close.

Trump will not be impeached immediately. The Dem plan is to work their way slowly through the House committees with full public hearings on Russian involvement with those intimately involved with them. They will be looking at payments, financial records, tax returns, clandestine meetings, past investigations into the hacking, influence peddling and illegal transactions. The Trump Organization will continue to be investigated by NY State and all records have already been seized, reviewed, verified and sourced.

Trump will be indicted although some may be "secret indictments" to avoid the statute of limitations on crimes in NY. Their records are showing illegal activity in 2003 so the clock is ticking on those. Future indictments will be decided by SCOTUS as to their applicability. Trump will also be subpoenaed at some point as was Clinton to testify under oath. But he will not be tried for any crimes until he leaves the office of President since it would interfere in the governance of the country.

My expectation is that Trump will cut a deal with DoJ (Mueller investigation) to resign the office to avoid the eventual and probable criminal charges. However he will be charged by NY State and is looking at a similar sentence to Cohen, probably harsher since he refuses to cooperate and continues to interfere in the investigation. Pence is not totally clean in all of this either considering his role as the transition team manager and Manafort's role working with the Russians. If Pence is found to have conspired to cover that up, he is also legally in jeopardy.

Maria Butina is apparently ready to talk which will show that Russian money was funneled to the Trump campaign through the NRA. She infiltrated them as a Russian agent and was not subtle about it. Her handler has already been recalled and is presently unaccounted for and she, like Manafort, fear Putin's revenge. I expect she may go into WitSec after testifying.

Finally, Flynn will avoid prison time due to his cooperation as will Rick Gates. However all of those involved with the Trump Organization including his kids and Jared Kushner may get caught up in the financial fraud parts of the organization. Jr. is fully expecting to be indicted for his role and Kushner may also flip to avoid the same fate as his father.

There are so many threads to this entire conspiracy that it mirrors every aspect of a visible RICO operation combined with election tampering, money laundering, campaign donations and payoffs, foreign espionage along with a cover up and conspiracy to defraud and attempts to block investigations that many will be caught in the web as a few have already. It took Mueller a few years to bring down John Gotti also and this one is far more complicated.

You need to do an OP.

a reply to: tadaman

I can't say this is proportionate to his lying while under oath.

He only got two months for lying.

A sentience to run congruent with the three year sentence.

They in fact went really easy on him for the lying part.

a reply to: tadaman

What cohen was convicted of usually gets a sentience of 4-5 years.

The judge went easy on him here as well.

a reply to: carewemust

Yes! Agreed.

Your part of q.

If it's as real as you guys say it is then why not make q go after them?

Or get q to get the pres to do it?

I'm not joking.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: tadaman

I can't say this is proportionate to his lying while under oath.

He only got two months for lying.

A sentience to run congruent with the three year sentence.

They in fact went really easy on him for the lying part.

I was wondering if there was a breakdown of what time was ascribed to each charge. Is there a full list?

Well, I'm only now catching up on the Cohen thing. American House of Cards season 2018 was pretty much intense and I couldn't follow, so I have a few basic questions...

1. What laws Cohen and or Trump broke with these payments?

2. Was he using campaign money or private Trump's money?

3. Really. Is there a law being broke on this or is it just the corrupt swamp trying to incriminate anyone related to Trump to push the narrative that Trump is corrupt?

I'm all ears.

originally posted by: vinifalou
Well, I'm only now catching up on the Cohen thing. American House of Cards season 2018 was pretty much intense and I couldn't follow, so I have a few basic questions...

1. What laws Cohen and or Trump broke with these payments?

2. Was he using campaign money or private Trump's money?

3. Really. Is there a law being broke on this or is it just the corrupt swamp trying to incriminate anyone related to Trump to push the narrative that Trump is corrupt?

I'm all ears.

1. Cohen pleaded guilty to lying under oath to the US Congress. As you may recall, he stated that he paid Stormy Daniels the "hush money" by taking a second mortgage on his house which appeared strange at the time that a lawyer would be paying it out of his own pocket. It has since been revealed that he was actually paid a monthly stipend/retainer fee out of campaign contributions which were not only unreported but also hidden by cooking the financial books. He has stated that he was instructed by his client to do it this way which he knew was illegal but did it anyway. Cohen is a low-rent fixer/shyster that masqueraded behind his lawyer status while doing very little work that a typical lawyer would do. He has apparently also revealed several questionable, unethical and possibly illegal dealings performed while Trump's personal attorney. He apparently has 100+ tapes of those dealings as a bit of a "dead man's switch" that the Feds have in their possession along with full financial records of the Trump Organization. The company's long time accountant Allen Weiselberg whose relationship with Trump dates back decades, is also the treasurer of Trump's charity, helped prepared Trump's tax returns and is the only non-family member to serve as trustee. He has been given immunity and met with the DoJ investigators.

2. Campaign money
3. Trump has always been on the thin edge of ethics and legality having been sued over 1000 times with many settled quietly outside of court. However providing hush money to the two women with whom he had affairs over a decade ago right before the election seems far too coincidental in its timing and both Cohen and David Pecker have testified that this was the sole reason he paid both women off at that time. Using campaign funds then covering it up to avoid the public backlash over the affairs is a felony. Conspiring to do so is also a felony and this has nothing to do with the Mueller investigation into election tampering by Russia. If Trump has done nothing illegal then he has nothing to worry about however considering the number of close associates that have pleaded guilty, been convicted, turned state's evidence or are currently under investigation, the lines back to him as a micro manager of his affairs seems to point to his involvement in most if not all of the actions of his staff.

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

Maybe unethical but completely legal in new York.

a reply to: Beaux

I'm just curious if it's been proven already the origin of the money, and if Cohen has any proofs that Trump knew it was illegal.

If it's campaign money and it's a criminal violation then punish Trump and Cohen for doing it.

originally posted by: Rewey

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: tadaman

I can't say this is proportionate to his lying while under oath.

He only got two months for lying.

A sentience to run congruent with the three year sentence.

They in fact went really easy on him for the lying part.

I was wondering if there was a breakdown of what time was ascribed to each charge. Is there a full list?

There were eight charges that included tax evasion and bank fraud but also campaign finance violations, specifically for his role in payments made to the women to keep them from talking about alleged affairs with Trump ahead of the 2016 election. The lying part is minor but is being used with multiple people to "flip" them to avoid charges or get reduced sentences.

a reply to: Beaux

What campaign funds? You do know that Trump largely self-funded his campaign, right?

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
You do know that Trump largely self-funded his campaign, right?

Once they become part of a campaign they are covered under different laws.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
You do know that Trump largely self-funded his campaign, right?

Once they become part of a campaign they are covered under different laws.

Trump's personal money is not "campaign funds," and he is free to spend it as he wishes. Again, have there been any allegations that the money came from campaign donations, or does this just fall back on the argument that any money spent automatically becomes campaign money?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

If Trump has 10 million bucks in his bank account, and he declared 5 million for his campaign, then paid these women with the other half 5 million, is it still considered campaign violation?

My point is, where is the line drawn that separate private money to campaign money? Is there some sort of declaration candidates needs to do? And if so, there must be records to prove he used the money he declared for the campaign, right?

originally posted by: vinifalou
a reply to: Beaux

I'm just curious if it's been proven already the origin of the money, and if Cohen has any proofs that Trump knew it was illegal.

If it's campaign money and it's a criminal violation then punish Trump and Cohen for doing it.

Rudy Giuliani said that Trump was paying a monthly retainer to Cohen of $35,000, which was in part paying off the $130,000.

In effect, the payments to Stephanie Clifford (Stormy Daniels) and Karen McDougal were contributions to Donald Trump’s campaign: they were hush money designed to help Donald Trump get elected. And that violated campaign finance laws, because corporations aren’t allowed to contribute directly to presidential campaigns, and individuals can’t contribute more than $2,700. Cohen and Pecker said in court that they made the payments at Trump’s direction. Federal law makes each of the payments punishable by up to five years in prison.

Where the money came from is fairly moot since the actual crime is circumventing the law applied to elections. So even if Trump paid it from his own pocket, it has the same outcome.

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

Any money spent for the purpose of the campaign must be reported including personal money. Failure to report it is the crime since it does not allow a "clean record" to ensure compliance. It is set up this way to monitor and hopefully prevent bribes or buying influence. If Trump had not been running for a public office, he could have paid them with no consequences since hush money or NDA's are not illegal.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan

Trump's personal money is not "campaign funds," and he is free to spend it as he wishes.

If he uses it for a campaign it must be injected as the law permits and used under the same guidelines.

originally posted by: vinifalou
If Trump has 10 million bucks in his bank account, and he declared 5 million for his campaign, then paid these women with the other half 5 million, is it still considered campaign violation?

I don't know the answer to that.

publicintegrity.org...

Former FEC Chairman Bradley Smith, a Republican who now leads the nonprofit Institute for Free Speech, says that while the FEC’s role is to investigate credible complaints, there may be little for the FEC to investigate as it relates to Trump and Daniels. That, he says, is because Trump has a long history of paying for people’s silence and the Daniels payment didn’t directly fund a campaign activity, such as get-out-the-vote efforts or campaign committee overhead.

the FEC doesnt know much about this subject.......
"a long history of paying for people's silence"
hmmm