$15 Minimum Wage - Real World Results

a reply to: Edumakated

Omg I would love to slave away for 15$ an hour. That would get me so far ahead so quickly.

Within 6 months I'd fix my credit, pay off debt, get a new car, and a new apartment.

Plus I'd have $$$ left over.

Automation will easily take over most labor jobs because robots work very cheap and make very few mistakes.

What we need to do to solve these issues derived from inevitable tech revolution is to get creative and invoke entrepreneurship. We must create the new jobs.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Edumakated

also I would like to point out anyone who's working for less than minimum wage right now is literally a slave, that's a joke and how dare you try to talk people into accepting less

the hell is wrong with you??

imagine making less than minimum wage and working 40+ hours a week and only taking home $200... are you out of your mind? stop the fake arguments

So people that make minimum wage are in a tax bracket of 53.5%?!? I always thought most people making minimum wage ended up owing almost nothing in tax or at least getting the most of it refunded each May.

A while back Switzerland was considering a minimum wage law for their citizens. The Swiss people themselves saw the folly of this and voted it down. However what was the going rate for unskilled labor in Switzerland? $26 an hour!

You see Switzerland is a hyper-capitalist country that has reasonable taxes and pro business regulations. As a result the economy is strong enough so that workers can demand high wages without it being enforced by leftist do-gooders.

This my friends is how you raise wages. You can not regulate or tax your way into prosperity. But many are fooled into thinking so and vote accordingly.

a reply to: Edumakated

The system as a whole is broken because so many have taken advantage of it instead of working/adjusting to the changing times.

Sadly this means that for the system to get fixed, it will have to undergo changes that will be negative to those involved before it gets back on track with how it should be. Essentially it has to be broken farther before it can be fixed.

What you have posted is an example of the negative impacts caused in order to fix a broken system. Most people would quit trying to fix the problem at the first signs of negative impacts because they do not understand that is what must be done to eventually fix it and it is much easier to quit. The negative aspects will continue for quite some time and could take years to decades but eventually it will even out. This is the sad reality of things and many people will suffer before things get better. The Great Depression is a good example of this.

Negative impacts will happen no matter what. So the question is whether or not one wants to fix what is broken or allow it to remain broke. Either way, there are going to be people hurt no matter what you choose but only one choice will eventually fix the problem.

a reply to: Lostmymarbles

Good post , I think you already know that with our instinct to survive coupled with greed nothing will change voluntarily, change is forced.

a reply to: SevenThunders

Automation is going to displace another anothet 10% of the workforce next year

How we humans going to compete with machines?

You all have antiquated points of view . sadly it'll take riots and civil war to wake your sleeping minds up

About five minutes after Reagan monetized debt and tilted the economic table to the job creators they gave the American people the finger and used their economic advantage to first invest in Japan, say goodbye to our electronics and powertool industries. Then comes China with thier entry into the wto and most favored trade nation status to kill the rest of US manufacturing.
Otsourcing to India and elsewhere in the world killed a few more tens of millions of jobs in the administrative support sector while Bill Clinton consoled us with " don't worry folks, the service sector economy will be awesome". Then comes twenty million illegal aliens to kill that job sector.
In the meantime the " non-participator" rate ( read unemployment rate) climbs steadily to ninety million Americans sitting around wondering what happened to the American dream.
Now that we can't afford the welfare the half of the country that is still working is squarely blaming the half that got thrown under the bus by our " job creators" and congratulating the filth Rich sobs that did this to our country.
I say level the playing field by deregulating SMALL business, re-encouraging investment in this country through FAIR trade policies, and actually put those ninety million people back to work.
Now if we could only get a guy into the White house to do that... Oh wait, we did.
Did you know the non-participator rate is actually going down for the first time in about forty years?
If the fed would stop dicking around with interest rates for a few years we would be on a good track for a change.
Of course we know that ain't gonna happen.

The reason workers get paid so little is because they are purposely never taught their true value.

Otherwise, we'd all be in a huge union and boycott those who take advantage or automate.

Think about it- the average citizen creates the supply, drives the demand, provides the service, pays for the service, etc... Almost every part of a business is completely reliant on the average person.

Imagine we lived in a society that taught us that from early on. Imagine kids in school weren't taught worthless junk like the quadratic equation, but were taught real world empowering concepts, including our worth in society.

Imagine people as a whole banded together and demanded specific working conditions and that products and services bought met those requirements as well...

It's not like no one would ever do business. There's an obvious line, workers would come to understand that demanding 25 an hour for just any job would not be realistic.

There would be a more realistic give and take, though.

I think this is the best point the OP made in his argument.

originally posted by: Edumakated
... In addition, the expense of automation has made it harder for new car wash entrants to get into the business due to the upfront capital costs.

I hadn't really considered the effect of making it hard to start businesses. With fewer new businesses entering a market, workers are herded into a small list of options. That allows hirers to dictate wage. And then minimum wage is all you can hope to get.

This is mitigated by other factors, though. When industries expand into places like China, with no minimum wage, automation still prevents cottage industries from being competitive, becauase there is always an "effective minimum wage".

In Oregon right now, the minimum wage hasn't been set to 15 yet. But department stores are already paying it, because our job market is favorable to the point where they would'nt realistically expect to achieve full staff if they payed less than that.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Xtrozero

Its really easy if no one is willing to mow your lawn for what you offer your lawn want get cut

Poof and just like that you have no leverage


That's why unions work. Let me guess you arent pro union?

But this discredits your whole argument

There were many people willing to work for less than 15 an hour

People like... me!

I am 34 and have never made more than I do now

I make around 14.50 an hour

So if I am willing to work for that, why should the government tell me I can’t?

You're totally free to donate the remaining 50 cents to charity, or freely give it in taxes, if you want.

Not to mention barriers to entry - education is leaps and bounds more expensive than it used to be. Millennials were told this is how they'd ever be worth anything - which the corrupt education system took advantage of and made prices many times higher. Then the job market responded saying if you don't pay those tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, you can't hardly break 12 an hour in some places. You can make 13! And be in huge amounts of debt.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Oh they blame that on us. Cause were snowflakes.

a reply to: deadlyhope

There's no point in resisting an autonated future why do you WANT to work so hard?

Thats part of the brainwashing. Theres more to life than working

originally posted by: deadlyhope
Not to mention barriers to entry - education is leaps and bounds more expensive than it used to be. Millennials were told this is how they'd ever be worth anything - which the corrupt education system took advantage of and made prices many times higher. Then the job market responded saying if you don't pay those tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, you can't hardly break 12 an hour in some places. You can make 13! And be in huge amounts of debt.

Corrupt is right. The interest alone is highway robbery. Got a 17,000 school loan back in 96. Wasn't able to pay after college for various reasons.

When I finally get to the point where I could make the payments they were previously aksing for the payment at least quadrupled. The interest took my loan from 17, 000 to 75,000 today.

Without the IBR program I believe obama put in place they would be asking me to basically make another rent payment which I can't afford.

Instead of fixing the issue of outrageous interest, he puts a tiny bandaid on it. In 15 more years the loan will be forgiven, but the IRS will consider the forgiven part as income and tax it. I probably will be no better off. Except I will now owe the IRS, and they can put you in jail for not paying your taxes whether you able to or not.

I personally don't see a way out.

Automation will replace us and nobody can stop it. Time to rethink the economy. It’s possible and I feel we will find something other than “rich people will pay”😂🥓

a reply to: Xtrozero

That's how much it is to get your lawn mowed in North Carolina, just an acre from actual professionals. Neighborhood kids are the ones doing it for $50.

originally posted by: bassface09
Automation will replace us and nobody can stop it. Time to rethink the economy. It’s possible and I feel we will find something other than “rich people will pay”😂🥓

Or at least not via taxes.

In many ways, the rich do pay, even when the government does nothing.

Remember when cell phones were called "car phones", and you could only get reception in a major city? The rich doled out thousands and thousands just to be the first to own one. 30 years of engineering later, only the poorest of the poor can't afford a hand held.

The rich dudes who purchased crumby car phones for exhorbant prices - they paid the way to that.

These lower wage jobs, are starter jobs and part time jobs. Historically it's always been that way and with hard work and studying you move up and over to better jobs.

Example. Pizza hut...part time minumum wage...work hard..get to full time or just below full time. Not really enough to live on. Work harder study every manual they have there and become an expert, get shift manager. Now your above minimum wage...almost make a living....work even harder...make it to assitant manager. Now your salary, benefits and can live off of that wage.

Once you've got some experience...you can move laterally to another industry as a manager making even more money. Say a call center...then at the call center to the IT department....then from help desk 1 to help desk 2...keep going to sys admin or move latterally to a different industry.

That's how it's done. You don't raise the money the pizza hut cook/dishwaher is making. Then there is no incentive to move up and work harder...and then all the entry level cook/dishwasher jobs are taken by the older generation...creating a situation where there are no entry level jobs.

Using the restaraunt example...managers must use labor cost based on historical data to plan how many people will work a shift. If you are paying out more wages then you're making, you have to cut out some people. That creates a skeleton crew of stressed out people. Say 3 people working a busy shift...one at the counter, second one cooking and the third one floating to wherever they're needed. Doing the job of 6 people.

All you do when you raise the minumum wage is cut out 3 jobs and make people hate their jobs.

a reply to: toysforadults

Imagine not being able to find a job at minimum and needing money to make ends meet, so you work at what you can because you don't want to stoop to welfare.

Those people exist you know. In fact, quite a few of the illegal aliens in this country do this although many have kids who do collect full benefits from welfare so they double dip.

a reply to: ketsuko

Working for less than minimum wage to survive?

Where can you survive on 10-12-13 an hour ???

a reply to: amazing

Exactly.

I'm glad you see it too.

My first jobs were minimum wage jobs, but I worked them when I was in high school and during college. They padded out my resume for when I was searching for serious work. They gave me the ground skills to prove I could do things like show up on time reliably and hold down a grunt labor job for longer then a few weeks among other things associated with the entry level job skills.