Good Brexit Bad Brexit What's the difference ?

a reply to: SprocketUK

Well, I don't really think there is a uniform definition of a socialist system in the US. I might even go as far as to say the same for the UK.

I was going by the broader definition of socialism in the historical context. More a Marxist / Leninist definition.

a reply to: SprocketUK
Bloody'ell!
I'm off for some German sausages from the travelling market traders in town now so catch you later...Brexit means the German traders will never be able to sell their sausages here again, you read it here first, total food doom porn lol

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: SprocketUK

Well, I don't really think there is a uniform definition of a socialist system in the US. I might even go as far as to say the same for the UK.

I was going by the broader definition of socialism in the historical context. More a Marxist / Leninist definition.

Yeah, here it is much softer. For instance we have a collective belief (mostly, there are always some outliers) in public education and healthcare... The idea that should fate deal you a bad hand, you should be looked after by society and not just cast aside or saddled with unpayable debts.

Nothing is perfect though so we also have a smallish private healthcare sector and a larger private school sector (Though because we are Brits, we like to call our private, fee paying schools "public schools" haha)

.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: SprocketUK
Bloody'ell!
I'm off for some German sausages from the travelling market traders in town now so catch you later...Brexit means the German traders will never be able to sell their sausages here again, you read it here first, total food doom porn lol

German sausages are the wurst

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: ScepticScot


Name one MEP that can put a new law on the books then, just one that you can write to and they can introduce a bill before parliament like happens here...You can't because they aren't allowed to do it.

It's virtually impossible for a single MP to get a law proposed & passed in the UK anyway.

The fact that proposed laws do not come from the parliament does not make the EU parliament advisory as you claimed.

You can dislike the EU legislative system but at least be accurate about it.

Nope, you get your MP to support you and there is always a chance of them getting what you want into law.

There is zero. NONE, NADA, chance of your MEP being able to do it.

For a comparison, the EU is like taking away all legislative power from the elected commons and just letting the unelected house of lords come up with every single law we have to obey.

I don't understand how any right thinking adult can support that.



ETA some laws which came from private members bills (via Wikipedia)
en.wikipedia.org...
Other private member's bills to have been enacted include the Adoption Act 1964, the Murder (Abolition of Death Penalty) Act 1965, the Charter Trustees Act 1985, the Law Reform (Year and a Day Rule) Act 1996, the Knives Act 1997, the British Nationality (Hong Kong) Act 1997, the Mental Health (Discrimination) Act 2003 the Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003, the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004, the Sustainable Communities Act 2007.

So If I can get an MP to agree with me, and if they then get their name drawn out a hat to get a chance at a private members bill, and if they get enough support to get a second reading, and if it doesn't get talked out..... and so on.

Only a tiny number of private member bills are ever passed usually when they get government support anyway.

None of which changes that you were wrong about MEPs only having an advisory vote. You can think legislation should be proposed by the legislative if you wish. I happen to agree. But at least be accurate about what you are complaining about.

a reply to: ScepticScot


Dress it up how you like, but if you cant elect the people who make the laws, you aren't living in a democracy.


ETA if the euro parliament votes to reject a law put forth by the unelected commission, the eu president then goes back to ASK them to drop it. they are under no obligation to do so.


And I am off to work, play nice, kids.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Painterz

And it's been 25 years already since the EU was officially formed. What benefit has the UK gotten in the two and a half decades being members of the EU????

I would venture to say, less than nothing.

Other than better economic growth, formalised human rights. Some of the best consumer & employment protections in the world. Free healthcare across Europe. Full access to worlds largest developed market.

Hardly anything really....

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: ScepticScot


Dress it up how you like, but if you cant elect the people who make the laws, you aren't living in a democracy.


ETA if the euro parliament votes to reject a law put forth by the unelected commission, the eu president then goes back to ASK them to drop it. they are under no obligation to do so.


And I am off to work, play nice, kids.

I think you are confusing the roles of the council and the commission.

originally posted by: Peeple
With accepting the Euro personal wealth of Germans has been cut into less than half of what it was. Nobody sacrificed more for the austerity in Europe than Germany.

If that's what you believe, then so-be-it. Personal wealth aside, the country that has benefited most from the Euro is Germany. You just need to look at GDP growth through time to see that point of truth. The riches of the Euro project have been collected into Germany.

Anyway, here's an interesting article from earlier this year...

Forbes - The German Swindle...

IInternational Monetary Fund (IMF) data suggests that at the euro’s inception, this currency distortion gave German industry a 6% competitive advantage compared with the country’s economic fundamentals.

Right from the start, then, the currency union divided the Eurozone into two classes of economies: producers and consumers. Greece, Spain Portugal, Italy, and other weaker economies over consumed and under produced. The Germans did the opposite. The difference surely contributed to the fiscal-financial crises that have plagued Europe’s periphery since. Meanwhile, the biases locked into the euro at the onset have since built on themselves.

a reply to: alldaylong

However it has still given far more to the world than your country ever did.

like what specifically.?

95% of EU policy the UK has voted for. only 2% has it voted against and that was mainly on issues to do with tax haven #. 3% it abstained. Take back control?. A #ing joke.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
95% of EU policy the UK has voted for. only 2% has it voted against and that was mainly on issues to do with tax haven #. 3% it abstained. Take back control?. A #ing joke.

I would be interested in the source of this statistic.

What policies are referred to.

And exactly what the definition of “UK has voted for” is.

I only voted once, and that was to leave.

Previous to that I voted UKIP, not because I supported their policies but because I knew it would force a referendum.

Previous to that I voted Tory.

Previous to that I voted green.


I never once voted on a fisheries policy, agriculture policy, trade tariffs, the 4th rail Regulation....

a reply to: and14263
I voted UKIP to force a referendum as well, previously Green party.
Solo is just sobbing because 1, he lost the Scottish independence referendum, and 2 we're leaving the EU without a second referendum and there's # all him and the SNP can do about it lol.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I believe you and I have a fair bit in common! I’ve noticed this before.

Nice to see you around.

a reply to: and14263
You too mate, we'd have a laugh over a pint and a game of pool, even solo as well if he chilled the # out with his anti English bull# lol.
No second referendum for him over Scottish independence or EU membership though haha, unlucky, he'll have to whinge on ATS instead.

a reply to: DoctorBluechip

Stagnation and more socioeconomic strife is the difference.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy
I PM’d you so as not to take the thread off topic.

After all, these remain experts wouldn’t like it if a dumb Brexiteer did something like that.

a reply to: and14263
Lol, is there an insulting term for Brexiters like there is for Remoaners?

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: and14263
Lol, is there an insulting term for Brexiters like there is for Remoaners?

I get ‘dumb’, ‘racist’, ‘fasict’, ‘xenophobe’. All the usual. Generally these are triggered by facts.

I’m becoming cynical.

a reply to: and14263
Is that just online though? In real life most folk I know don't give a # about Brexit so long as we can still work and stuff.
We'll have tourists next year same as we do every year, Brexit won't change that, the value of the £ and the weather are the only things which change life in my world.
The weak £ is fantastic for us.
EDIT
...as is sunshine!