Good Brexit Bad Brexit What's the difference ?

a reply to: Peeple

Why are you, a German citizen, bitching about the decision of the UK to leave the EU?
If your precious union is so strong then you have nothing to worry about, we'll take the hit and repent at our leisure.
...or are you worried that this could be the start of the EU collapse?

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: ScepticScot


That's the trouble though.
Simple economics takes zero account of human needs.

The EU is about economics, not people.

As you can see from the devastating impact of their monopoly rules, this article 13 debacle and many other ill thought out laws and codes imposed upon us by people we simply aren't allowed to vote for.

You think things are going to get better under a Tory government outside the EU?

Consumer, employment & human rights protection in the EU are some of the best in the world

Outside if we align a US centric view of trade they will be far worse.

Also pretty sure I have voted in European elections several times so we certainly do get a vote.

a reply to: ScepticScot


The tories have been able to do insane stuff in the eu, so have labour, so the eu is no guarantor of anything .


Human rights are the safe here. Hell, the longer we remain in the eu the greater the chance some real nutcase party will gain votes.


As for voting for your MEP, you know that MEP is not the person who makes or rescinds laws, dont you? MEP's are given an advisory voting power over the laws made by the unelected commission, nothing more.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

No. I just am seriously worried that this could be suicide. And I am worried that nobody else seems to be worried.
I just love you guys. I'm home because I'm sick I drank some whine and am so worried about you...
That's my story.

a reply to: Peeple

Your posts make sense. Keep it up. Truth hurts.

Not from the UK here, but I do have some observations about the whole Brexit thing, which I have followed a little more than casually. But before I go into the observations, some disclosure first...

I remember when the whole EU formation went down initially, and at the time I thought (wrongly) that it was likely a good thing. As we've clearly seen, it was not a good thing. At the time I thought all the new world order stuff was just a bunch of tin-foil hat stuff. I was wrong.

Now to my observations (as an outsider):

I think there are a number of striking similarities between what is going on in the UK/EU related to Brexit and political gyrations in the US. I very much agree that it seems like there are a number of unelected persons making policy in the UK without the consent of the people, and this is absolutely NOT democratic (in any way, shape or form). We have that happening here in the US as well.

Enter the Brexit movement...

The will of the people in the UK seems pretty clear to me; they want OUT (and I completely understand why)! So the politicians got the message, and they said "we hear you". BUT...then they stepped in and had all their cronies craft the language around the Brexit movement to suit their overlords under the guise of working for the people. In reality what they did was craft such an awful arrangement that it would be worse than not leaving the EU at all. I'm sure this was by design. And, while it may appear those who crafted the Brexit plans were of the UK themselves, this was hardly the case. They may have been the scribes, but they weren't the ones dreaming up the plans, no, the plans came from the EU overlords (i.e. the elite). As an outsider, this seems plainly evident to me just by how this whole thing has come together. It's a farce, and it's shameful! In fact, it smacks of the establishment elite once again perpetuating the role of puppetmaster and pulling the necessary strings to suit their overwhelming greed and lust for power. Same things are happening here in the US, just with a different complexion.

There are distinct yet subtle differences between the 'left/right' paradigm in the UK compared to the US. I often note this; the ideology of the 'left/right' paradigm is different between the two countries. And this is sometimes why I opine about commentary by the UK on American politics. I don't think there is a direct translation, and I think this fact is often lost in opinions. However, the influence of the establishment elite knows no left/right affiliation, and quite candidly, their influence knows no nationality. Their only affiliation is international greed and power for themselves. The US is similarly afflicted.

So, as we look at what the puppetmasters have done with Brexit, they've turned it into an almost unwinnable debate on socialism when, in reality, it is anything but that. This was 100% intentional. Look no further than one of the central issues in Brexit, NHC. An NHC system discussion should be completely independent of a Brexit discussion, but it's not, and do you know why? Because that's just how "they" want it. So they've intentionally crafted the boundaries of Brexit to be a referendum on socialism, rather than it being a clearly defined financial decision which is in the best interest of the British people. Clever, but not very transparent.

I feel for you my UK brethren, I feel your pain. The "establishment" has to go, both in the UK and in the US...and in the World. They must be rooted out one by one and exposed for who they are. Only then can their strangle hold on politics, and thus the people, finally be broken.

For all of our differences, we have more in common than we have apart, and that is "us, the people". At the end of the day there's a lot more of "us" than there are of "them".

In summary, what I think should happen (again, as an outsider) is the "people" should tell their leaders to SCRAP Brexit as it is currently crafted and throw it in the rubbish bin (in total). And then the real will of the people should be crafted into a new Brexit plan, the one originally envisioned by the initial Brexit referendum...leaving out the referendum on socialism. Once this is complete, then you can have your debate on socialism, but as long as the NWO folks are allowed to keep the two issues attached at the hip, nothing will change.

That's just my .02 (as an outsider)

I wish all Brexit supporters the best! We're with you!

a reply to: Peeple
The UK will survive and prosper in time, sure there will be short term challenges but long term we will be fine.
I love Europe I just don't love the EU, massive difference.
...there are German market traders in town right now, I'm popping down for some mulled wine and sausage in the next hour.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I think you have a better understanding of the issue than 48 percent of Brits, mate

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: ScepticScot


The tories have been able to do insane stuff in the eu, so have labour, so the eu is no guarantor of anything .


Human rights are the safe here. Hell, the longer we remain in the eu the greater the chance some real nutcase party will gain votes.


As for voting for your MEP, you know that MEP is not the person who makes or rescinds laws, dont you? MEP's are given an advisory voting power over the laws made by the unelected commission, nothing more.

Have you seen some of the proposals coming from the Torys post brexit?

You are also incorrect, the European parliament is not just advisory.

a reply to: Peeple

No it was the Euro. The reunification cost me 25€ per month in solidarity tax.

I've just been having a bit of a read-up on German re-unification.
25 Euro's a month, doesn't seem a massive amount but for how long?

I know I am digressing slightly but has it been worth it?

With the Euro every D-Mark was cut in half and then the prices went up.

People in the UK got shafted in a similar way when we changed to a decimalised currency.
If we'd adopted the Euro - thankfully we didn't - then I'm absolutely certain we would have been done over again!

I mean the redistribution of wealth not austerity maybe?

I'm all for wealth re-distribution....but of a different sort I think.

Sorry if that was my mistake

I appreciate the clarification but there's no need to apologise.

The EU could have been a great thing but it has developed into an amoral, corrupt, insidious entity that seeks to eliminate nation states and national identity.
It refuses to recognise alternative viewpoints to its autocratic decrees.

The people of the UK voted to join a Free Trade Association - something the vast majority still desire - but do not want and never have wanted political union.

We share common interests with each other and wish to keep close ties with our friends and neighbours....we just don't want political union....it really is that simple.

Everything else is just smoke in mirrors.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Only 48?

Then I would lose.

a reply to: ScepticScot


Name one MEP that can put a new law on the books then, just one that you can write to and they can introduce a bill before parliament like happens here...You can't because they aren't allowed to do it.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

It was just a dig at the losing side in the referendum

a reply to: SprocketUK

My apologies, but I don't understand.

Do you disagree?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Great post....good to see some critical and reasoned thinking.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Not sure about the mulled wine but bratwurst is the dogs doo-dahs!

a reply to: ScepticScot

You think things are going to get better under a Tory government outside the EU?

Things will never get better under a Tory government regardless of EU membership status.
Sadly the alternative is little better.

But the political elites, the establishment and the system they seek to maintain has been shown up as the grotesque monstrosity that it is and there has never been a better time for the ordinary, everyday British people to stand up united and demand the change that we both want and deserve.

Thay maybe nothing more than wishful thinking, but....

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

He agrees with you mate just making the point that you understand the situation better than almost half Brits...while having a jab at the remainers lol

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

we voted to leave the eu by 52 to 48 percent.
There is a large rump of that 48 percent who refuse to admit that there is anything bad about the eu or anything good about leaving it.

I agree with what you posted before, you pretty much nailed it.

Though your idea of socialism and mine are vastly different.
The EU is not socialist, it is corporatist.

a reply to: Freeborn
I love the meat products the German market traders sell, and in summer when the French come with their cheeses #ing amazing.
They'll still come after Brexit maybe have to fill a few more forms out but they'll still come.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: ScepticScot


Name one MEP that can put a new law on the books then, just one that you can write to and they can introduce a bill before parliament like happens here...You can't because they aren't allowed to do it.

It's virtually impossible for a single MP to get a law proposed & passed in the UK anyway.

The fact that proposed laws do not come from the parliament does not make the EU parliament advisory as you claimed.

You can dislike the EU legislative system but at least be accurate about it.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: Freeborn
I love the meat products the German market traders sell, and in summer when the French come with their cheeses #ing amazing.
They'll still come after Brexit maybe have to fill a few more forms out but they'll still come.

And we can still go over the water for camping hols and to bring back cheap booze and fags