Anti Smoking Laws and the Reality of the Totalitarian Police State

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Lumenari

You are Missing the POINT . It is a Denial of Freedom . Smokers Have the Same Rights in America as Non Smokers do . It's Discrimination Pure and Simple .

I know the point... I think you are missing it.

Someone has an addiction that is a health hazard to them and the people in their immediate vicinity when they are getting their fix. They also want to devalue the property that they live in, the cars they drive and push up our health care costs.

It isn't discrimination.

It's common sense.

Look, I don't care really if you smoke crack either.

Just don't cook it in the house I am renting to you, don't smoke it there and please don't do it in a public area.

Be an adult, buy your own house, cook your meth in your own house and smoke it there.

An addiction is an addiction, after all.

This one just happens to be legal because there is a lot of money involved in it and a history that goes back to our founding.

Smoked 35 years, btw. Stopped about 10 years ago. So I have some skin in the game here.

Smoking isn't a right.

Sorry..but gotta disagree entirely on this one.

I smoked for a good 25 years..stopped about 3 years ago...started again this summer to see what would happen...now quit for 2 months and it is simple to do.

It IS a right and it should be fought for as strong as anything.

Was recently on a college campus and saw signs everywhere saying no smoking.

Once you have reached a point where you cannot walk off into an empty field and be accosted for lighting up...NAZISM is at hand.

Seeing the fear in people's eyes when my buddy lit up irregardless was amazing...so scared he would be caught and thrown out by security or God knows what .. some skinny professor wearing glasses and skinny pants will gay speak him into submission.

Liberalism..weakness...this brand of feminism is utterly disgusting.

It goes against everything a human wants..needs..and it has declared war on us all too see how we will react.

This has gone too far already...no need to see anymore examples of flat out extortion and assault against any and everything.

This Means War.

originally posted by: fencesitter85
Pop outside for a fag.

Honestly this is the most pointless indignation ever.

If you've ever had to clean up a house which was chain-smoked in for years, you'd probably quit on the spot.

Literally runs down the walls slowly like thick snot once you start getting some cleaning products involved.

It's a dinosaur habit, dying out as it should do.

Ranting and raving about not being able to hot-box your flat with an extremely dangerous habit is one of the more pointless rants I've seen on here of late.

How about seatbelts huh? How can the government dictate that I have to be safe when driving my own car?!??!?!

Etc. Snore.

I look forward to the tobacco habit being removed from culture. Let's think about what is taboo in culture right now. . .
Right, Tobacco is the only thing I can think of besides controlled substances as well. So what are your kids going to do to rebel?
Smoke or do hard drugs. Let's hope they do not do hard drugs.

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: fencesitter85
Pop outside for a fag.

Honestly this is the most pointless indignation ever.

If you've ever had to clean up a house which was chain-smoked in for years, you'd probably quit on the spot.

Literally runs down the walls slowly like thick snot once you start getting some cleaning products involved.

It's a dinosaur habit, dying out as it should do.

Ranting and raving about not being able to hot-box your flat with an extremely dangerous habit is one of the more pointless rants I've seen on here of late.

How about seatbelts huh? How can the government dictate that I have to be safe when driving my own car?!??!?!

Etc. Snore.

I look forward to the tobacco habit being removed from culture. Let's think about what is taboo in culture right now. . .
Right, Tobacco is the only thing I can think of besides controlled substances as well. So what are your kids going to do to rebel?
Smoke or do hard drugs. Let's hope they do not do hard drugs.

They'll always find something. It's as stupid as the "abstinence" lot thinking telling kids not to have sex will keep teen pregnancy down.

Thankfully evidence shows kids are increasingly turning away from cigarettes.

Some will try hard drugs - I did and so did many of my friends. We were teenagers. But it won't be a result of not having tobacco as an option. Kids explore the world, and rebel against the rules.

I see no risk in banning smoking so widely. Just means less pressure on health services.

Each to their own opinion I guess, but if you don't OWN the property, you abide by the rules of those who do.

Why anyone would want to sit indoors and smoke is beyond me anyway. Hair, clothes, furniture, all stinking.

And if you have pets or kids and you smoke indoors, you don't deserve either.

This is a politically correct liberal problem and it goes like this.

Basically its evryones gods given right to smoke.

Smoking has health consequences, but liberals dont believe people should have to live or pay for those consequences.

People suffering from their lifestyle choices should be 100% medically taken care of.

Sounds nice. But liberals then run into a money problem. It cost a lot of money. Too much.

So how can they save money? Ban smoking so they dont have to pay for evey smokers medical needs when they get older.
Nip it in the butt early on by banning.

Same thing with sugar tax. What liberals dont understand is that there are large populations of people who will never care one second about their health.
And when they do get sick from the lifestyle choices , bleeding heart liberals believe they must pay for all those.

And again, it's just too expensive. There are more who done care one second about their health then there are who do and who pay towards health care.

So liberals again say ban sugar, put a soda tax, in hopes they wont have to pay for all the medical expenses for a majority of the population.

It's the most crazy way of thinking

a reply to: Bloodworth

Again the thinking by the 'it cost a lot of money to care for smokers' crowd is illogical.

This is a 'no brainer':

IF AS THEY SAY CIGARETTE SMOKERS DIE 10 YEARS SOONER THAN NON SMOKERS

- THEY SHOULD BE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO SMOKE MORE CIGARETTES SO THEY WILL DIE SOONER
AND SAVE ALL THE MONEY FOR TAKING CARE OF THESE PEOPLE WHEN THEY GET OLDER !

A huge fortune could be saved by encouraging poor people to smoke cigarettes so they will die sooner
and save the state all that money to care for poor people with age related dementia and
a good part of these people will develop cancer anyway not related to smoking !

So big tobacco was encouraging people to smoke cigarettes so they could live a faster happier life
and die young?

Maybe - But what I think is really bothering the tobacco nazis is the fact that some smokers are living
long, long lives - One of the oldest woman in the world died a few years ago at 112
- She was a lifelong cigarette smoker - Wonder how long she would have lived if she never smoked ?
- Bet she would not have lived to 112 - Smoking bad for you? - It wasn't bad for her!

And remember the famous comedian George Burns who always walked around with a big cigar in his hand,
and yes he did smoke them
- Died some yeas ago at 100 - was smoking bad for him ???

'One Man's medicine is another man's poison' is the old saying [and the death rate from prescription drugs even when used as prescribed is scarry]
- Maybe the reverse is also true - Maybe one person's poison can be someone elses medicine.

And anything, including water, can be harmful if used in excess.

a reply to: AlienView

So ....the anti-smoking campaign pretended that when tobacco use was eradicated, we would all live longer, disease free lives. Yay Yay - its a win win for non-smokers and smokers alike! Worth every penny of the billions of tax dollars that were spent and the billions of tax dollars ripped out of the wallets of smokers.

Except.... There has been no decrease in the rates of diseases supposedly caused by smoking.

Question....if smoking is supposedly scientifically proved to be caused by smoking, and you take away smoking, shouldn't the incidence of that disease decrease??? Can anyone think of a reason, why, with a decrease of smoking in the population from 45 % to less than 20 % over a period of 80 years, there is still no decrease of disease.

But there is this:

fortune.com...

The report also highlights a rise in the suicide rate, which increased 24% between 1999 and 2014, as well as health conditions from diabetes to HIV/AIDS that are negatively impacting the lives of Americans.

Part of the drop in life expectancy is due to suicide and dispair.

Smokers have been demonized and isolated. We used to have a tight accepting community. Light up a cigarette around another smoker and it was instant acceptance. We not only shared cigarettes. Each cigarette usually entailed a few minutes of conversation and bonding.

We used to love sharing time with each other.

Anti-smokers - you have turned us into sub-humans unworthy of shelter from the weather and places to congrete.

So how much damage have you done with your do-gooing???

Tired of Control Freaks

I don't care is people smoke but I am glad it is not allowed in restaurants where I live as it is nice to smell food when you walk into one instead of a dirty ashtray. I use to play in rock and roll bands in bars, and to this day, one of the most disgusting smells to me is the smell of spilled beer and stale cigarette smoke. I still have one guitar case, and when you open it you you get a wiff of the bar that was in 'The Lakeshore' hotel.

Here is a true but funny story that happened where I live:

You are not allowed to smoke in a vehicle with children under 16 in it. A person was pulled over for this, and as the officer was writing the driver a ticket, the 13 year old passenger was so upset and ticked off, that she grabbed one of her mom's smokes and puffed away while the officer was writing the ticket.

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: amazing

okay

LOL - at least most jails are non-smoking.

Tired of Control Freaks

You don't see the problem with that?

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: amazing

so which restaurant, business, home, elevator do you own?

where is your "right" not to be infringed upon by cigarette smoke enshrined? Is it one of those new fangled social warrier antifa rights.

I have the right not to be infringed upon by your car exhaust. Quit driving - take a bus

Tired of Control Freaks

I don't think you get it. If we're in a closed space, inside, It's common courtesy not to fill it with smoke or vape clouds. I would never do that to someone. if I have to fart, I excuse myself and go outside.

There's lot's of things that aren't in the constitution...We're not talking about social warriors or owning buildings.

If I'm in a restarant eating, You don't have the right to come in and ruin my dinner. If i'm in an elevator, you don't have the right to pollute my air with your fruity vape or smoke, If I pay for a airline ticket, you don't have the right to blow smoke in my face.

If you can't control yourself enough to do that away from me, you've got a problem. Maybe you need help. Try blowing smoke in my face and see what happens though bro. It won't go well for you.

If the owner of that space is fine with smoking in that space, then sadly you do not get a say.

Ha. I do if you're blowing smoke or vape clouds in my face. In fact that's so disrespectful, that's like spitting on someone. AT risk of being arrested, I would smack that right out of your mouth or hand.

Never have I stated I blow smoke at someone or act disrespectfully in general.
If you voluntarily enter a space that allows smoking, you need to accept you will be exposed to it.
That does include public spaces. A smoker's right in outdoor spaces equal your own.
You can always move upwind or cross the street.

But that's why the ban in restaurants was so good. In the old days...20 years ago? There was no such thing as a non smoking restaurant. Now I can actually eat out without coughing and having my eyes water and enduring the smell.

You guys can eat at your own house if you want to smoke and eat at the same time. These bans are a good thing.

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Not only has there been no decrease in disease---we are now experiencing an epidemic of obesity and paying for myriad health issues related to being obese.

Everyone I know personally who quit smoking picked up at least an extra ten pounds, most picked up far more than that. So, in addition to their "anti-smoking" meds they are now on blood pressure meds and meds for diabetes and have huge complaints about their joint aches from carrying around all the extra weight.

a reply to: amazing

I have no problem with the owner of a restaurant or bar having his establishment as non-smoking and posting a sign
at the entrance saying so - THE PROBLEM IS GOVERNMENT MANDATES!

They tried this no smoking in restaurants and bars in Nevada and the restaurant and bar owners pleaded they were going
out of business because of it - So they at least rescinded that part of the anti-smoking law - So it is up to you, if you
can't stand the smell of smoke I'm sure you can find those restaurants with a no smoking policy.

Same with housing - If the owner of apartments or condos wants his place to be no smoking, fine, smokers could
live somewhere else.

The problem is with government funded discount housing for low income people - They can't afford to live
anywhere else and the GOVERNMENT SAYS NO SMOKING IN "ALL" PUBLIC HOUSING, you think the smokers
should live on the street" - I'm sure some would rather live on the street than be imprisoned in their own
apartment.

So you say, or at least I say, why could they not have had some of their properties as smoking allowed
[of course inside your own place only] and others no smoking allowed, even charged slightly extra for
the theoretical damage caused by smoke in the smoking allowed apartments ?

WHY? - Becuase the government decided no one should smoke!!!
Afterall look at how much extra money can be made by causing these ex somkers to live longer [their hypothesis]
and then keep paying for them, again, in government funded nursing homes as everyone who gets old gets sick'
[more government funded medicine]

Do you see how government control freaks are a self-perpetuating disease that costs everyone more?

Do you see why normally Liberal people like me voted straight Republikcan and for Donald Trump
in the presidential election?

Do you see why I started this post:

"Anti Smoking Laws and the Reality of the Totalitarian Police State"

Maybe I should have titled it:

"Anti Smoking Laws and the Nightmare of the Totalitarian Control State"

One thing I find interesting is weather it is a pot head, smoker, alcoholic coke head etc ... is that many of these users have a double standard when it comes to their drug of choice and often think their use of their drug of choice doesn't affect the ones they love when in fact it does.

a reply to: JimD350


Love surely is a bit of give and take on both sides, if you start of with the premise that your never going to get things exactly how you want, nobody will end up to disappointed.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: amazing

so which restaurant, business, home, elevator do you own?

where is your "right" not to be infringed upon by cigarette smoke enshrined? Is it one of those new fangled social warrier antifa rights.

I have the right not to be infringed upon by your car exhaust. Quit driving - take a bus

Tired of Control Freaks

I don't think you get it. If we're in a closed space, inside, It's common courtesy not to fill it with smoke or vape clouds. I would never do that to someone. if I have to fart, I excuse myself and go outside.

There's lot's of things that aren't in the constitution...We're not talking about social warriors or owning buildings.

If I'm in a restarant eating, You don't have the right to come in and ruin my dinner. If i'm in an elevator, you don't have the right to pollute my air with your fruity vape or smoke, If I pay for a airline ticket, you don't have the right to blow smoke in my face.

If you can't control yourself enough to do that away from me, you've got a problem. Maybe you need help. Try blowing smoke in my face and see what happens though bro. It won't go well for you.

If the owner of that space is fine with smoking in that space, then sadly you do not get a say.

Ha. I do if you're blowing smoke or vape clouds in my face. In fact that's so disrespectful, that's like spitting on someone. AT risk of being arrested, I would smack that right out of your mouth or hand.

Never have I stated I blow smoke at someone or act disrespectfully in general.
If you voluntarily enter a space that allows smoking, you need to accept you will be exposed to it.
That does include public spaces. A smoker's right in outdoor spaces equal your own.
You can always move upwind or cross the street.

But that's why the ban in restaurants was so good. In the old days...20 years ago? There was no such thing as a non smoking restaurant. Now I can actually eat out without coughing and having my eyes water and enduring the smell.

You guys can eat at your own house if you want to smoke and eat at the same time. These bans are a good thing.

Because lack of control of your own business model is good why?
I remember those days. I'm not a fan of tobacco smoke while I am eating.
You think the lack of freedom is good, because you agree with it. I agree with it's results, but I am against the lack of freedom.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Lumenari

You are Missing the POINT . It is a Denial of Freedom . Smokers Have the Same Rights in America as Non Smokers do . It's Discrimination Pure and Simple .

I know the point... I think you are missing it.

Someone has an addiction that is a health hazard to them and the people in their immediate vicinity when they are getting their fix. They also want to devalue the property that they live in, the cars they drive and push up our health care costs.

It isn't discrimination.

It's common sense.

Look, I don't care really if you smoke crack either.

Just don't cook it in the house I am renting to you, don't smoke it there and please don't do it in a public area.

Be an adult, buy your own house, cook your meth in your own house and smoke it there.

An addiction is an addiction, after all.

This one just happens to be legal because there is a lot of money involved in it and a history that goes back to our founding.

Smoked 35 years, btw. Stopped about 10 years ago. So I have some skin in the game here.

Smoking isn't a right.

Sorry..but gotta disagree entirely on this one.

I smoked for a good 25 years..stopped about 3 years ago...started again this summer to see what would happen...now quit for 2 months and it is simple to do.

It IS a right and it should be fought for as strong as anything.

Was recently on a college campus and saw signs everywhere saying no smoking.

Once you have reached a point where you cannot walk off into an empty field and be accosted for lighting up...NAZISM is at hand.

Seeing the fear in people's eyes when my buddy lit up irregardless was amazing...so scared he would be caught and thrown out by security or God knows what .. some skinny professor wearing glasses and skinny pants will gay speak him into submission.

Liberalism..weakness...this brand of feminism is utterly disgusting.

It goes against everything a human wants..needs..and it has declared war on us all too see how we will react.

This has gone too far already...no need to see anymore examples of flat out extortion and assault against any and everything.

This Means War.

So you think a landlord that doesn't allow smoking in their rental property is a liberal Nazi feminist....

a reply to: randomtangentsrme


Then why are their not "smoking only restaurants" for a balanced approach you would have thought this would have happened by now.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: randomtangentsrme


Then why are their not "smoking only restaurants" for a balanced approach you would have thought this would have happened by now.

It's not allowed by law. There is the issue.
As we both know.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: randomtangentsrme


Then why are their not "smoking only restaurants" for a balanced approach you would have thought this would have happened by now.

Generally business owners are smart enough to not limit their customer base.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: randomtangentsrme


Then why are their not "smoking only restaurants" for a balanced approach you would have thought this would have happened by now.

Generally business owners are smart enough to not limit their customer base.

Correct. Which is why my friends who own businesses are upset with this law.

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Not only has there been no decrease in disease---we are now experiencing an epidemic of obesity and paying for myriad health issues related to being obese.

Everyone I know personally who quit smoking picked up at least an extra ten pounds, most picked up far more than that. So, in addition to their "anti-smoking" meds they are now on blood pressure meds and meds for diabetes and have huge complaints about their joint aches from carrying around all the extra weight.

The consequences of the 'do as I say' group bullying people through government control is irelevant to their agendas
- based mainly on ' CONTROL'

The control freaks want to control you - Your lifestyle and your habits, good or bad.

Wth politics now wide open with fairly extreme left and right wing ideologies becoming commonplace
and lifestyles, straight, gay, or whatever now considered acceptable and marijuana becoming legal in
more and more places - Whose left for them to bully?

Hey, why don't we bully tobacco smokers, an admitted minority [so they say].

With questionable statistics showing how bad tobacco is and 'very disputable' statistics showing how bad
second hand smoke is- the control freaks are in heat - A new target for these totalitarian bullies to pick on.

What they try to sweep under the rug is the paradoxical nature of the original 'Surgeon Generals' rerpost of 1964
which showed how bad heavy cigarette smoking really is [unfortunately this is often true] was the printing
later down which showed lifetime pipe smokers often actually outlived non-smokers!

Of course this is 2018, most people could not get used or want to hassle with pipes even back then
- But some genius [I heard about this years ageo when I thought is was an urban myth, had supposedly
come up with a safe cigarette and big tobacco didn't want to touch it because they would have to have
admitted that their goldmine of cigarettes was really dangerous],
- Apparently this was a true story and I saw a video on YouTube that showed the inventor of the vape
cigarette made nothing because the patents ran out by the time it came into vogue.

But the control freaks are desperate - what's a tobacco nazi to do if his cash cow and reason to be
suddenly becomes almost safe?

They don't give up - Now its an addiction menace - millions of kids are being driven to flavored vape
devices and overnight are becoming addicts
- hell anything is better than becoming a control freak addict - apparently an incurable addiction