I can't imagine not having a national health service funded by taxes.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I don't want my tax dollars going to a bloated military but i have no choice in the matter do I? Sometimes sacrifices are necessary for the greater good. Do you agree with that?

Well, National defense is actually a Constitutionally mandated responsibility of the federal government, health care is not. So no, I don't agree with you.

Your quote: "underlying concept of taxation being little more than adminsitratively legalized theft"

But it's ok if it goes towards funding the military? In my mind, if taxation is theft, ALL taxation is theft. I'd much rather my tax dollars go towards health care than the military. Our military budget is gigantic as it is, and there's no reason for it to be.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
Have you looking into ear crystals and your condition? I had severe vertigo and doing the epley maneuver cured it for a decade. Did the epley maneuver again and same thing.

I've been reading about it, thanks.
Being on a drug for the rest of my life is not my gig...hope it can fix the tinnitus as well, it's as loud as shouting volume now, when I'm at my mates I have to get them to turn the TV volume up lol.

As a veteran, my taxes do pay for my healthcare...and I'm not impressed.

A2D

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Hundreds of thousands of people with lifelong illnesses survive just fine financially in the USA under our current healthcare system. The USA govt already pays tens of billions of dollars on healthcare to take care of the elderly, young, military, and disabled.

What is even the point of this thread??

What if you can't be classified as one of those 4 things, and you can't afford healthcare? Just S.O.L. I guess. If we moved to something akin to universal healthcare, everyone would be taken care of, not just certain categories of people. That sounds way better to me. And to a lot of other people as well.

That's the point of this thread. Some countries do healthcare better than the US. We should take note.

a reply to: narrator
Agreed, healthcare is worth paying tax for, it's not like any nations are actually thinking about invading the UK anytime soon.
That's just fearmonger talk lol

originally posted by: narrator

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I don't want my tax dollars going to a bloated military but i have no choice in the matter do I? Sometimes sacrifices are necessary for the greater good. Do you agree with that?

Well, National defense is actually a Constitutionally mandated responsibility of the federal government, health care is not. So no, I don't agree with you.

Your quote: "underlying concept of taxation being little more than adminsitratively legalized theft"

But it's ok if it goes towards funding the military? In my mind, if taxation is theft, ALL taxation is theft. I'd much rather my tax dollars go towards health care than the military. Our military budget is gigantic as it is, and there's no reason for it to be.

Again, I don't give a rat's ass what YOU would rather see your taxes go towards, defense is Constitutionally mandated and is Constitutionally intended to be paid for via tariffs, excise taxes, and limited property tax. Pretty much everything beyond that is not something the federal government is supposed to be spending for nor should they be taxing citizens to fund anything beyond that.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
I'm celebrating universal healthcare, not attacking individual insurance/responsibility systems...you seem to be attacking universal taxation funded healthcare though.

I'm in full agreement with you. I had my cancer cured for $32 out of pocket...parking for my visits to one of the world's leading oncology centres. Yes...it came out of my taxes. So what? The percentage of one's wages that go for taxes is not the issue. What's important is the quality of life at the end of the day.

And ours is comparable to the U.S....perhaps better because the shenanigans that destroyed the housing/banking system are illegal here.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Exactly. Same thing on this side of the pond, fear mongering. No one is invading America, and we aren't even technically at war with anyone, and haven't been for quite a while. Why did we need to spend $590 BILLION this year on the military?

And, for the Fiscal year 2019, Trump increased the budget to $686 billion. Again, why?! It makes no sense. Fear mongering.

Put half of that, heck, 1/3 of that, towards healthcare, and it would be a great start.

a reply to: burdman30ott6
But...if enough lawmakers wanted it then you could provide US citizens with universal healthcare, stop making out the constitution cannot be ammended. It is a lie.
...not that I have a dog in the fight, I'm just celebrating my universal healthcare, but you could have it as well if enough people wanted it.

a reply to: Thejoncrichton

Dude what is that even a graph of?, i can tell the x axis is years, waaaay back to 2005 but what is the y axis and what is it showing us

All I know is the NHS was founded in 1958 so your graph needs to be bigger

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: narrator

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I don't want my tax dollars going to a bloated military but i have no choice in the matter do I? Sometimes sacrifices are necessary for the greater good. Do you agree with that?

Well, National defense is actually a Constitutionally mandated responsibility of the federal government, health care is not. So no, I don't agree with you.

Your quote: "underlying concept of taxation being little more than adminsitratively legalized theft"

But it's ok if it goes towards funding the military? In my mind, if taxation is theft, ALL taxation is theft. I'd much rather my tax dollars go towards health care than the military. Our military budget is gigantic as it is, and there's no reason for it to be.

Again, I don't give a rat's ass what YOU would rather see your taxes go towards, defense is Constitutionally mandated and is Constitutionally intended to be paid for via tariffs, excise taxes, and limited property tax. Pretty much everything beyond that is not something the federal government is supposed to be spending for nor should they be taxing citizens to fund anything beyond that.

So...taxation isn't theft then?

Article 1, Section 8 has this to say: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States"

Emphasis mine. What is the general Welfare, if not making sure the population is healthy?

Likewise, I don't care at all what you think it should go towards either. Differences in opinion.

However, neither of us can pick and choose what our taxes go towards. And, according to the Article I mentioned earlier, it seems to be that, technically, the Constitution says it'd be perfectly ok to tax us to pay for healthcare.

Is it still theft? Even though the Constitution says it's ok?

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: burdman30ott6
But...if enough lawmakers wanted it then you could provide US citizens with universal healthcare, stop making out the constitution cannot be ammended. It is a lie.

Dude, if 51% of the US House of Representatives wanted it, we could declare war on the UK... It would take 66.6% of the House plus 66.6% of the Senate to amend the Constitution. Think about that for a moment... it is worlds easier for the US to decide to ink spot any other nation in this world than it is for us to alter the Constitution. It.is.not.happening.

a reply to: narrator

It took an amendment to permit income tax and that amendment was never properly raitifed so yes, income taxation is theft and it is Unconstitutional... sadly, the system loves it's power so it protects itself.

a reply to: burdman30ott6
So I was correct in my original assertion that the constitution CAN be changed.
Why did you even disagree with me?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are also Constitutionally mandated. You can't have any of those things if you don't have your health.

Nice sidestep though. You missed my point entirely, intentionally.

a reply to: Thejoncrichton

Did I say defund the military completely? No.

The issue I have isn't so much an aversion to "universal" healthcare, but more about government spending.

I am of the mind that before anything like "universal" healthcare should be considered, we need to examine and reform how tax dollars are actually spent.

Of course, the conversation tends to revolve around simply raising budgets or lowering them. This enables our government to never examine actual spending, and slowly eat away the income of citizens through additional taxation.

As an ideal, I am a strong supporter of any concept that benefits a nation more than the "cost" of that concepts inclusion. But, using that as a qualifier, it means that implementation is significantly more critical than the ideal/concept itself.

In other words, I fully support the idealized notion of everything from "universal" healthcare to full educations. Simply because the benefit to the nation, and obviously its citizens, massively outweigh the cost of proper implementation. This is especially true over time (meaning generations).

But.. until spending practices are sorted out in existing programs.. I simply can't support "more."

Personally, I think its pretty damn important to not get so mired and blinded by the ideal that we lose sight of how it's actually implemented. Its extremely problematic to support idealized concepts with zero regard for how it will be carried out.

I'm honestly not trolling you burdman, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning.

So, income tax is illegal. But, taxing the people to fund the military is ok. So, where do those taxes come from? It wouldn't be sales tax, because then there'd be several states that aren't paying for the military.

Also, you're saying that the article I mentioned about taxes (that explains that the government can tax for defense) was never ratified? That would mean it's not ok to use taxes to fund the military. However, if that article is ok, it also says that taxes for the general welfare of the country is ok. "General welfare" sounds like health care.

a reply to: narrator

Good point. I'm sure he will completely ignore your post from here on out. General welfare includes healthcare.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Agreed. The Constitution doesn't need to be changed for universal healthcare (or something similar), it's already in there.