The most consequential decision of the Trump Presidency Saudi Arabia

Without SA, where will we get highjackers for aircraft? Speaking of aircraft, does SA buy enough from Boeing versus Airbus to make it an issue.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

the conundrum:
Mcdonalds or KFC

Taco salad.
That is all

a reply to: SKEPTEK

Speaking of, isn't Steve Paddock tied into this somehow?

a reply to: DoctorBluechip

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originally posted by: Fallingdown
When making this decision everyone needs to consider the elephant in the room .

Iran

Or do you mean nuclear bomb?

originally posted by: roadgravel
Without SA, where will we get highjackers for aircraft? Speaking of aircraft, does SA buy enough from Boeing versus Airbus to make it an issue.

No, the vast majority of Saudi airforce systems are American. They do have an order for Typhoons.
en.wikipedia.org...

They have been an American client in that area for some time. Although I think before the 80's they seemed to prefer British aircraft.

If you are talking domestic Saudi Airline, wikipedia entry makes it look about 50/50.
en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Fallingdown
When making this decision everyone needs to consider the elephant in the room .

Iran

That's very true - he spent time at the UN recently giving Iran a hard time for human rights abuses etc etc .
He's in a very tight spot because The East keep on grabbing his balls and twisting them , they've even got UK/Western balls in their hands over this .
Political science says he cannot afford to lose any moral authority here when exactly that is slipping away . It's as much a part of the battle as any wargames , some say more important in fact .
He needs to be severe on this one but keep the agreements with SA - that's a tough challenge which will define him as POTUS

a reply to: DoctorBluechip

Trump will do whatever the Military contractors tell him to do. Didn't KSA just agree to a 110 BILLION dollar arms deal from the USA? That's the deciding factor.

a reply to: Middleoftheroad

He lived in Virginia.

a reply to: DoctorBluechip

If it comes down to a moral dilemma versus strategic positioning.

I will pick the latter.

I’m OK with sanctions just not to the point where Saudi Arabia retaliates with oil reductions or stoppage. .

They can do a lot of damage to the world economy. Far more than any sanctions would .

Look up the oil shock of 1979. Because of the revolution Iran’s oil industry fell apart. At the time Iran only represented 4% of all oil produced.

But the shock was worldwide. The price of oil soared and the global economy was hamstringed.

Now keep in mind Saudi Arabia produces about 14% of all oil production annually .

I’m also not in favor of cutting arms sales. Iran is on the rise in the middle east and the Saudis are the country keeping them in check.



I will take a position made with brains over a position made on emotions any day .

This whole thing smells to me.

We have two bad actors, Turkey and SA, and we have deep and complicated relationships with both.

They have been at each other's throats for some time:

Saudi-Turkey ties take a turn for the worse

Saudi-Turkish relations hit a new low point this week after Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman referred to Turkey as part of a “triangle of evil” alongside Iran and Islamic extremists.

Turkey and Saudi Arabia don’t like each other, and this has been true for decades....

Turkey’s expanding military influence is raising fears in Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Egypt. Ankara now has three military bases in the region—in Qatar, Somalia, and a possible naval base in Sudan, directly opposite Saudi Arabia across the Red Sea and a potential threat to Egypt. Many Arabs resent Turkey’s attempt to establish a neo-Ottoman influence in the region.

Turkey’s Islamist government is close to the Muslim Brotherhood and thus has very poor relations with Egypt and the UAE, two close Saudi allies. Turkey is using its ties with Qatar to weaken Saudi influence in the Gulf, boost its credentials with the Muslim Brotherhood, and encourage Iranian support for Turkey’s ambitions in Syria.President Erdogan sees himself as an alternative to traditional Saudi and Egyptian leadership in the region.

Against its own long-term interests, Turkey is allying with Iran to weaken the Kurds in Syria, keep them out of the peace process, and in effect strengthen the Syrian government. The Saudis have opposed the Syrian government for years, trying to diminish the growing influence of Iran and Syria in Lebanon, which was traditionally an old ally of Riyadh.

The Saudis see their struggle with Iran in existential terms, but see the Turks as accepting Iran’s greater influence in Baghdad and Damascus in exchange for Tehran’s help in crushing the Kurds.

So we have Erdogan, who has the title as the world’s leading jailer of journalists, accusing SA of killing this journalist.

So far we have CNN & NYT anonymous sources describing video and audio evidence of the 'gruesome' murder and a supposed admission from SA of an interrogation gone bad.

Where are these things?

After the reported 'confession', SA EXPLICITLY denied knowledge or responsibility of the murder, calling it "baseless". So that reporting was obvious wrong. And to my knowledge, Turkey has so far NOT released to the US any video or audio evidence of the actual murder.

For me it seems like this whole thing screams against a rush to judgement.

I don't know where this goes, but one thing is for sure...we do not know everything yet, imo.

don't worry to much..
the incident will be couvert with the clock of love couse its an allied country and the stakes are high
in media the murder is an factor 99 less than if it was an russian clean-up...we diddend even heare the comment of prime minister may lollll

a reply to: Middleoftheroad

He's definitely not a citizen and I'm unable to find any proof he even lives here in the US.

What you need to know about the Jamal Khashoggi case and the man who vanished

Khashoggi, who would have turned 60 this weekend, is a prominent Washington Post columnist. He was in self-imposed exile from Saudi Arabia and was a permanent resident of the United States, with a condo in Virginia since 2008. He was seeking to become a US citizen, according to an op-ed by his fiancée in the Post. He was a critic of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, differing with Saudi policies on the country’s war in Yemen, its approach to Iran, its crackdown on critics, and its deep opposition to political Islamists.

a reply to: Fallingdown

Iran is on the rise in the middle east and the Saudis are the country keeping them in check.

Exactly how is Iran 'on the rise'?

And how are the Saudi's 'keeping them in check'?

Saudi Arabia has a far worse record than Iran on human rights abuse.
Saudi Arabia exports and funds far more Islamic extremists than Iran.
Saudi Arabia funds far more terrorist organisations than Iran.
Saudi Arabia is guilty of slaughtering far more innocent people in neighbouring countries than Iran.

All with the complicit knowledge and obviously approval of successive US, UK and other 'western' nation governments of all political persuasions.

Despite all the blustering and political sound bites Trump is no different from those that preceded him.

a reply to: DoctorBluechip

Sanctioning Saudi Arabia will push S.A. towards Russia and perhaps force them to mend ways with Iran. Worse, S.A. may decide to trade in local currency rather than the dollar, removing the USAs single biggest economic advantage they have, the petrodollar. This would be catastrophic to the US economy.

Give it time, this will all be forgotten about from all important allies, even Turkey and will be a non- issue in three months.

I despise Saudi Arabia, but they are a necessary evil unless you're ok with your economy collapsing.

originally posted by: Plotus

The Saudi's do not need our support, and just yesterday it was announced the US was the worlds biggest producer of oil..!

We need not dance around their atrocities with a blind eye.

If they had half a brain, they wouldn't need your support. But since they have neglected their military due to US promises to defend them in exchange for assurances to trade oil in the US dollar, they do. At least for now.

The US however desperately need S.A.

a reply to: Freeborn

After years of lecturing by American haters that Iran hadn’t been aggressive for over 1000 years. They are now in Syria , Yemen and funding Hamas with cash and weapons .

I don’t like the way they’re handling it but they’re keeping Iran in check in Yemen .

As for the rest of your post I’m well aware of what’s going on.

Just like siding with Stalin during World War II .

A enemy of my enemy is my friend.

The sooner the oil runs out in the Middle East the better cos they have nothing else to offer the world. Did I or did I not see a piece about Trump agreeing with SA to build a multi billion Dollar internet spying complex in SA?

Kashoggi was a Muslim Brotherhood propagandist.

The U.S. is wrong about the Muslim Brotherhood — and the Arab world is suffering for it

This is bigger than the Trump presidency and US/Saudi relations and arms deals. This is part of an ongoing civil war within the Dar al-Islam.

a reply to: NiNjABackflip

I'm shocked how quickly everyone wants to rush to judgement on this, given the stakes.