Lakeland, Florida City Commisioner Shoots and Kills Perp Shoplifting From His Business

originally posted by: TXRabbit
Without watching 1 video in the thread and simply reading the comments presented, I'm guessing that the victim was white?

Do I win?

No. You lose. He was Hispanic. Thanks for playing.

originally posted by: BigDave-AR

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: BigDave-AR

I would support that 100% in this country. Something needs to be done, as the current tactics are failing.

Where does that slope end?

When people recognize the need to keep their hands off of other people's property.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: BigDave-AR

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: BigDave-AR

I would support that 100% in this country. Something needs to be done, as the current tactics are failing.

Where does that slope end?

When people recognize the need to keep their hands off of other people's property.

Nice skirting of the pertinent questions, you do realize that there’s still theft even in countries with extreme (barbaric) punishments for theft?

It’s also rather sad that your stance is actually more extreme than sharia law:

It's true that Sharia permits harsh corporal punishment, including amputation of limbs, but Fiqh restricts its application. Theft, for example, doesn't include anything stolen out of hunger or items of low value.

You’d fit in just fine with IS....

originally posted by: BigDave-AR
You’d fit in just fine with IS....

Nah, I'll stick with Christianity over that death cult, thank you very much.

In Florida, you can't shoot a thief unless your life is in danger. Even if they are in your house and you catch them stealing your property. You can try to take the stuff back from them in which case you are likely to get injured. Most thieves are cowards and will run when caught. Some are brazen and know the law is on their side concerning the actual theft. All you can do is get a description or else you will be charged with a homicide.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: BigDave-AR
You’d fit in just fine with IS....

Nah, I'll stick with Christianity over that death cult, thank you very much.

The hypocrisy is real with this one... 🤦🏻‍♂️🙄
You do you guy I hope if someone with your ideals ever gains power here that you’ll never be in position where you have to steal food to feed your family, but I suppose you’d off yourself before resorting to that...

originally posted by: BigDave-AR

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: BigDave-AR
You’d fit in just fine with IS....

Nah, I'll stick with Christianity over that death cult, thank you very much.

The hypocrisy is real with this one... 🤦🏻‍♂️🙄
You do you guy I hope if someone with your ideals ever gains power here that you’ll never be in position where you have to steal food to feed your family, but I suppose you’d off yourself before resorting to that...

So this guy was going to eat the hatchet?

Travesty here is the thief was thinking "no way is he going to shoot me over a $25 hatchet".
Now 2 lives will be wasted.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: BigDave-AR

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: BigDave-AR
You’d fit in just fine with IS....

Nah, I'll stick with Christianity over that death cult, thank you very much.

The hypocrisy is real with this one... 🤦🏻‍♂️🙄
You do you guy I hope if someone with your ideals ever gains power here that you’ll never be in position where you have to steal food to feed your family, but I suppose you’d off yourself before resorting to that...

So this guy was going to eat the hatchet?

Come on now I didn’t say that I’m just saying advocating death to all thieves is asinine.

originally posted by: BigDave-AR

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: BigDave-AR

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: BigDave-AR
You’d fit in just fine with IS....

Nah, I'll stick with Christianity over that death cult, thank you very much.

The hypocrisy is real with this one... 🤦🏻‍♂️🙄
You do you guy I hope if someone with your ideals ever gains power here that you’ll never be in position where you have to steal food to feed your family, but I suppose you’d off yourself before resorting to that...

So this guy was going to eat the hatchet?

Come on now I didn’t say that I’m just saying advocating death to all thieves is asinine.

But you changed the argument from a theft of property to a need to eat. This guy wasn't stealing to feed his family; he was stealing because he thought he could get away with it. And you decided to criticize the poster with a an ad hominem argument simply because he suggested the theft was the cause of the issue in the first place.

originally posted by: BigDave-AR

originally posted by: highvein
a reply to: Parishna

So death sentence for being slow..

Not even close to what I said. I just don't have sympathy for a thief. They choose to put themselves in that position.

Perhaps we should just go sharia law and cut his hand off theft does not merit capital punishment. Y’all are killing me.

Or perhaps we should just say that stealing isn't a crime. Problem solved. See what I did there?

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Travesty here is the thief was thinking "no way is he going to shoot me over a $25 hatchet".
Now 2 lives will be wasted.

The question I would want to know how people answer is-

Who is the one initially responsible for this situation to even arise.

Just another responsible gun owner right up until he wasn’t, am I right ,or am I right?

a reply to: BigDave-AR
Anybody trying to steal my food can eat copper coated candy. Even if they look like sisters of the church with three orphans. Evil will use any disguise to infiltrate your kingdom and tear it down.

If they beg , I may let them work the mines. But I'm still releasing the hounds.

Under Florida law, “defense of property” is an affirmative defense that justifies the use of non-deadly force to protect a person’s land, home, vehicle, or other personal property.

Florida does not recognize a right to use deadly force in the protection of property interests alone.

link

That would seem to not support the shop owner.

eta:

Deadly force applies to a forced felony

776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

originally posted by: soundguy
Just another responsible gun owner right up until he wasn’t, am I right ,or am I right?

Your statement doesn't confer any greater degree of correctness.

What exactly is it that you're trying to say?

16 million people have CCW permits in the US, myself included.

Even the lowest estimates by the Violence Policy Center (NPR Source) stands at 100,000 per year. Those are verified through the police investigation, court proceedings, and volunteered datasets from individuals. Even the lowball estimate of the VPC is nearly 3 times more common than successful criminal acts with guns.

So what is the point here? Take rights away because someone might be irresponsible?

What do you think you're right about exactly?

originally posted by: soundguy
Just another responsible gun owner right up until he wasn’t, am I right ,or am I right?

Do you really want to get into the who's responsible for this situate debate? It makes it sound as if you only want one person to be responsible and not the other, whom would be completely responsible for this situation to even arise.

Having looked at the video and read the article the following can be stated:

What the person did, who got shot, was wrong, stealing is a crime and should not be tolerated or accepted. However, the shop owner is equally wrong here. There is no justice here. Only death.

The person who had the gun, who shot the other guy, did not think about justice, when he pulled the trigger on his weapon. He acted as judge, jury and executioner. While the guy who stole deserved to be punished, but did he deserve to die? And the man who killed him, is he not suppose to uphold the laws of the community and state?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Bullsh#t

You can call yourself a christian but the gig is up..you are not.

a reply to: roadgravel
Oh thank goodness you just saved this man's freedom. You have done us as American a great service now.

776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

There is no audio, we cannot hear the threats he muttered to Commissioner Dunn.
Now let us see the 2018 definitions of the crime, Robbery, for the state of Florida.

The 2018 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI
CRIMES

Chapter 812
THEFT, ROBBERY, AND RELATED CRIMES

View Entire Chapter
812.13 Robbery.—
(1) “Robbery” means the taking of money or other property which may be the subject of larceny from the person or custody of another, with intent to either permanently or temporarily deprive the person or the owner of the money or other property, when in the course of the taking there isthe use of force, violence, assault, or putting in fear.
(2)(a) If in the course of committing the robbery the offender carried a firearm or other deadly weapon, then the robbery is a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life imprisonment or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(b) If in the course of committing the robbery the offender carried a weapon, then the robbery is a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(c) If in the course of committing the robbery the offender carried no firearm, deadly weapon, or other weapon, then the robbery is a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(3)(a) An act shall be deemed“in the course of committing the robbery” if it occurs in an attempt to commit robbery or in flight after the attempt or commission.
(b) An act shall be deemed “in the course of the taking” if it occurs either prior to, contemporaneous with, or subsequent to the taking of the property and if it and the act of taking constitute a continuous series of acts or events.

Well now, maybe we should see how the Florida Department of Law Enforcement defines Larceny in their statistics:

Larceny
UCR Definition

The Florida Uniform Crime Reports program defines larceny as the unlawful taking, carrying, leading, or riding away of property from the possession, or constructive possession, of another person. All larcenies and thefts (committed and attempted) resulting from the following are counted here:

Pocket-Picking
Purse-Snatching
Shoplifting
Larceny from Motor Vehicles
Larceny of Motor Vehicle Parts
Larceny of Bicycles
Larceny from Buildings
Larceny from any Coin-Operated Machines
"All Other" type larcenies

The following offenses are considered Fraud or Embezzlement and are not reported as UCR larceny offenses:

Embezzlement
Fraudulent conversion of entrusted property
Conversion of goods lawfully possessed by bailees, lodgers or finders of lost property
Obtaining money or property by false pretenses
Larceny by check
“Larceny after trust”
Theft of rental property
Larceny by bailee


The UCR Manual contains more information about these definitions. Burglaries from a conveyance or within the curtilage are counted as Larceny by UCR definition.

Florida Statutes


812.014 Theft

812.0145 Theft from persons 65 years of age or older

812.0147 Unlawful possession or use of a fifth wheel

812.015 Retail and farm theft; transit fare evasion; mandatory fine; alternative punishment; detention and arrest; exemption from liability for false arrest; resisting arrest; penalties.

Remember, when a jury is deliberating on the case, they have to take in to consideration the letter of the law. Every technicality included. Thank you ladies and gentleman for participating. I knew we could help this honorable member of our community secure his freedom with the law.

Florida wins the land of awesome award once again.

# yea man, where is my $5,000 retainer +bonus?

A Round of drinks for everyone, we just solved an investigation for the courts!
:cheer s::che ers: