Lakeland, Florida City Commisioner Shoots and Kills Perp Shoplifting From His Business

a reply to: Breakthestreak

That... is just plain out scary to read.

Some people really are tilted...

originally posted by: wantsome
As far as I'm concerned the guy was protecting his livelihood. Don't steal and you won't get shot. I'm from Detroit and I'm sick of thieves. If we were aloud to use lethal force to protect our property

You most certainly are aloud to use lethal force. You can stand on a soap box and yell about it, pick up the phone and call your friends and talk about it, hell, you can do it loudly anywhere.

Just don't do it silently, or whisper about it. That's not allowed.

I usually don't comment on these type of posts, however, lethal force should only be used when a life is clearly endangered. I can't believe that the "stand your ground" law in Florida wouldn't apply this and the shop owner will get some time for using deadly force when it was not necessary.

As for wantsome's comment, I grew up in Detroit and know exactly what he's talking about. Likely the type of thieves he's talking about would be armed with an illegal fire arm during a robbery. Detroit is a crap hole because of the subculture that developed there and the fact that no one cleaned house after the big riots in the 60s. White flight left them with a majority in certain neighborhoods and only the middle eastern shop owners had the balls to do business there. Then the liberals and "poor folks" have the nerve to complain about the improvements made by way of the gentrification of the burned out neighborhoods.

I left the neighborhood I grew up in 20 years ago because I was only 2 miles north of 8 mile and Gratiot roads. The signs were obvious then and history proved to me the eventual outcome of the squeeze play between Detroit and Mt Clemens. Once the auto industry slowed down and left for greener pastures, the responsible home owners left the inner suburbs. With the destruction of the neighborhoods south of 8 mile, the riff raff had to move into more viable neighborhoods to the north, it was destined to happen that way as it had been some 30 years earlier before I left.

I'm finding it difficult to feel sorry for a thief.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
I'm finding it difficult to feel sorry for a thief.

I am not too sorry for the thieves either. I say that as a victim several times over. In HS my dad had a garage and I worked in it as a "parts replacer" his mechanic called me. It helped me pay for my books and beer after retiring from the wrestling team. I do hope I won't kill anyone. We were robbed of both money and expensive tools. We were also burglarized for lots of money in tools. And sadly, observed armed robbery next door at the small store too. It gets frustrating trying to pay for the light bill when you have to buy more tools.

Maybe he said he was coming back with friends? That would make anyone overreact.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
I'm finding it difficult to feel sorry for a thief.

What about the murderer?

Been thinking about this more since I’m stuck in a truck on my lonesome all night (not complaining I don’t play well with people) and some points that I was throwing around were did the store owner know exactly what was being stolen? Or did he just see that something being shoved into the guys waistband? Seems to me if he didn’t know that it was an edged weapon his defense would be much harder. If he knew it was a weapon he could try to argue that the guy appeared to be going for it he *might* have a chance at getting off. That being said even if he did try reaching for it at some point but it’s obvious that the thief was trying to get away his body language did not show any aggressiveness IMO. I’m finding it difficult to think of a variable that when taken with footage would make this a justifiable shooting. I personally think the guy should go down for manslaughter at the least. That being said it’s easy to judge not being there but very different for the people involved, though the available evidence thus far makes a defense for this guy a very difficult proposition. At the very least hope the guy has self defense insurance because either way his legal fees are going to be outrageous.

Delete.

originally posted by: Parishna

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
I'm finding it difficult to feel sorry for a thief.

What about the murderer?

This was a suicide.

Last time we were broken into and had video the cop said he didn't see it so there wasn't a crime as far as he was concerned. I told him i would handle it myself next time. he didn't like it at all but never called them again. Have since moved and they finally burned the place down the last time they broke in.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Florida is pretty clear on it's self defense laws.

You are allowed to meet force with equal force.

He's gonna be in trouble.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

So if someone comes to your property, steals a weapon, and you fear for your life, you're not allowed to protect yourself? If his life wasn't in danger, that's one thing, but if he felt it WAS in danger then he should be able to protect himself at all costs.

a reply to: Breakthestreak

A hatchet. To sell for his drug of choice. A hatchet?

Thieves sometimes steal to order.

The store owner grabs the man's shirt to stop him from leaving and then shoots. I would think most people would not see that as life threatening to the store owner.

a reply to: roadgravel

It looks clear. The store owner tried to stop him leaving, when that failed he shot him to stop him leaving, not because he felt in danger. If the store owner felt he was in danger he could have stood back to let him escape.

originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: roadgravel

It looks clear. The store owner tried to stop him leaving, when that failed he shot him to stop him leaving, not because he felt in danger. If the store owner felt he was in danger he could have stood back to let him escape.

Well it does look like he fell with the hatchet. Are we not so sure he was on his way to bury that hatchet in someone else? The guy actually left the store with the hatchet. He could have left it and then left the store. Looks to me he was on a mission.

Now lets say they guy left and murdered a bunch of kids and we have this same video but without the shooting. Then these same people here would be calling for the armed store owner to be hung for not stopping the perp. Heck, he would probably get sued.

I wouldn't convict..

This is pre-meditated murder.Open and closed.Bang.

The OPEN FOR BUSINESS sign is a CONTRACT....the business owner agrees to it when the sign goes up.....the business owner ALLOWED and GAVE CONTRACTUAL PERMISSION for the potential customer to enter his store to negotiate value of goods for sale....the customer didn't think the goods were worth anything so he took them for free.....the owner has the option to make Civil charges againstthe customer....IF HE KNOWS WHO THE CUSTOMER IS...hence it is the BUSINESS OWNERS FAULT for not KNOWING WHO HE WAS MAKING A CONTRACT WITH....meaning he couldn't sue civilly because he didn't know the identity of the man he was involved in a contract with....he MURDERED A MAN BECAUSE HE WAS NEGLIGENT in how he entered into a contract and he was unhappy that his best interests were no longer being served.....is short he was miffed off so he murdered a man for taking a piece of merchandise LEGALLY OBTAINED within the boundaries of said CONTRACT.....the man negotiated a value of zero on the item and took it for free....the business owner should have had his name and address BEFORE he allowed himself to enter into a contract with the man.


You CANNOT defend your business as you would defend your home....your belongings in your home are protected by their location your assets in your business are not....this psychopath knew full well that a specific amount of shoplifting happens in the retail environment and he chose to set a deadly trap for a shoplifter...this guy is a bonafide psychopath and he is also a pre-meditated murderer.

No...you dont get to protect your business under the auspices of the Consitution as if it were your domicile or home....unless it IS both your home and business...meaning if you LIVE in your business.

Slap this murderer in jail and on the way tell him we dont give a darn about his possesions or business or money....he killed for those things and he will now serve a lifetime in jail for that killing....he killed for money NO DIFFERENT THAN A DRUG DEALER...now he should be in jail or on death row.

a reply to: Scifi2424

I'm not feeling sorrow for criminals but using the thought of potential crimes against someone is out there. That can make everyone a suspect.

a reply to: Scifi2424

Now lets say they guy left and murdered a bunch of kids and we have this same video but without the shooting. Then these same people here would be calling for the armed store owner to be hung for not stopping the perp. Heck, he would probably get sued.

Fantasy [email protected] go ahead and imagine this guy is a hero..ffs

a reply to: worldstarcountry



From this footage it looks like he was in there for fifteen minutes, possibly deliberately avoiding the cameras, before he tried to walk out with the hatchet.