Rendlesham Forest 1980 Pt II - Will There Be An Answer?

originally posted by: AthlonSavage
They came from Europa.

Who came from Europa?

originally posted by: pigsy2400

"All behaviors, including consciousness, are generated by and correlated with brain activity. The activity can be conceived as complex matrices of electromagnetic patterns and their associated chemical changes. Weak intensity complex magnetic fields generated by the earth and by human technology affect consciousness and experience. The critical factor is not the intensity of the fields but their patterns and the information contained within the patterns. Those patterns that are most similar to the natural temporal configurations of brain activity are most effective." --Michael Persinger, Behavioral Neuroscience

If we extend that to other branches of research into 'experiencers' we also find that there is a strong correlation between certain non-typical personality types and the way in which they process information differently to those with neurotypical personality types. Therefore in such an instance where there is a external EMF and multiple people are exposed to that field it should be expected that the accounts of those experiences differ sometimes considerably as we see at RFI. Among some in the neurological community such differences indicate that such differences are fundamental to our species' successful social strategy in that it enables us to reach a strategic arrangement of reality that most benefits the majority.

“Individuals reporting religious and mystic experiences appear in all cultures and have been present for millennia. The dramatic impact of such reports, which often form the basis for widespread religious systems, suggests that individuals prone to such experiences may be an intrinsic feature of our species and part of an evolutionary strategy. One hypothesis for the psychological advantage of spirituality for individuals is the attenuation of death anxiety (Persinger, 1985). The “spiritual experiences” with the implicit cognitive associations to existence beyond time and space, allow us to feel that death isn’t threatening in an absolute sense while remaining mindful of threats to our group’s survival. Religious beliefs indicate we don't die, but rather survive death and go on living in heaven, a spirit world, or reincarnate, becoming a human again. The belief that that no one ceases to exist when they die is critical to every religion. Living in a complex culture can be considered the primary survival strategy for homo sapiens. Religion may be, or once may have been, an evolutionary adaptation that contributes, or once contributed, to our survival. It’s worth noting that no hereditary mechanisms are required for such an adaptation to be distributed through the total human population.”

The Role of Religious and Mystic Experiences In Human Evolution: A Corollary Hypothesis for NeuroTheology
Todd R. Murphy

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
Yes we can.

Not really. While his account may be derived from others, he may not have necessarily been aware that it wasn't his own because of a distortion to his perception of reality. If he thinks he is telling the truth, that isn't lying. If he thinks he is telling the truth but in fact he has just 'acquired' someone else's experiences and conflated them with his own imaginings, that still isn't lying if he isn't aware of where one reality ends and another begins.

“A great deal of indirect evidence also supports the hypothesis that those reporting memories of alien contact (‘experiencers’) might be more susceptible to false memories. Many of the psychological variables that appear to be correlated with susceptibility to false memories are also correlated with paranormal belief and the tendency to report anomalous experiences, including claims of alien contact (French 2003).

For example, a number of studies have reported that a susceptibility to false memories appears to be correlated with dissociativity (eg Elsen and Carlson 1998, Heaps and Nash, 1999, Wilson and French, 2006, Winograd et al, 1998). Dissociation can be thought of as a lack of integration between conscious awareness and mental activity. Powers (1994) reported higher levels of dissociativity amongst experiencers than control samples.”

“The concept of fantasy proneness was first discussed by Wilson Barber (1983). The fantasy prone personality has an extremely rich and vivid fantasy life, claiming that their fantasies are ‘as real as real’. They admit that sometimes they confuse imagination and real events. They report vivid childhood memories, a wide range of ostensibly paranormal experiences and intense religious experiences. They often believe that they themselves have strong psychic abilities, such as healing.”

Psychological aspects of the alien contact experience, Christopher French, Julia Santomauro, Victoria Hamilton, Rachel Fox and Michael Thalbourne 2007

Good, as we should do with all con artists.

Like the concept of transliminality, tolerance of ambiguity is an emotional and perceptual personality variable. Frenkel-Brunswick (1949) described intolerance of ambiguity as a tendency to resort to black-and-white solutions characterised by premature closure, often not using consensual facts. In essence, intolerance of ambiguity results in rapid but overconfident attribution to ambiguous stimuli...It may be that individuals with a high tolerance of ambiguity seek out or more readily pay attention to these internal stimuli. On the other hand, persons with low tolerance of ambiguity might be less sensation-seeking or wish to ignore anomalous internal stimuli.”

Transliminality, the Mental Experience Inventory and tolerance of ambiguity.
Michael A Thalbourne and James Houran, 1999

a reply to: AdamE

I can't speak for JP, but since I saw largely the same thing,
I can speak for myself.

I once had an amazing memory (due to the autism) and I
can't find any influence in my mind for having seen something
like this.

a reply to: mirageman

Not really.

Elucidate?

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

I'm an experiencer.

And I provide no spiritual comfort whatsoever.

Quite the opposite really.

But PS:

I have read the same sort of material you have..
there certainly can be a good case made, for alternate
brain circuitry in some providing a social value.

For example, believing in Christianity is in fact certifiably
insane.. but it CAN provide social value, due to gluing
members together with a web of shared-insanity,
that can promote a calming effect, a sense of support,
and of course mob rule.. empowering them to go out
and kill native American's, etc, as they have 'god's
permission' to do so, etc.

I'm just saying that there are atheist experiencers
or what not. Your contention works well for social
fabric, but not necessarily for experiencers of
'UFOs'.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

err no. He is a chronic liar and con artist.
He had a publisher pull his book when his co-author said he made the whole thing up. Imagine now how big it is for a publisher to pull a publication due to fraudulent claims.
sacha-christie-infomaniachousewife.blogspot.com...

a reply to: zazzafrazz

I dont think we need a facebook repeat on ATS. All this is old hat. Unless of course this is now going to extend into another larry bashing site?

a reply to: Baablacksheep

I don't need anyone to tell me what to post on ATS. Thanks


I answered someones statement on Larry. If you don't like the narrative, that' s up to you.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
I'm an experiencer.

And I provide no spiritual comfort whatsoever.

Quite the opposite really.

That is in part the point I was making, what they have found is that not only is there a subset of the population that is predisposed to "experiences" that within that subset there are fundamentally different ways in which those "experiences" are interpreted, so that, for example, one person may have an elated experience, while another would have a very negative/paranoia feeling and yet another still would get nothing at all but that between them they would get a full picture and achieve a consensus about the current reality. You are not predisposed to be the comforter, you're disposed towards Debbie Downer or whatever and as part of a whole that has worth for leadership.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

I have read the same sort of material you have..
there certainly can be a good case made, for alternate
brain circuitry in some providing a social value.

For example, believing in Christianity is in fact certifiably
insane.. but it CAN provide social value, due to gluing
members together with a web of shared-insanity,
that can promote a calming effect, a sense of support,
and of course mob rule.. empowering them to go out
and kill native American's, etc, as they have 'god's
permission' to do so, etc.

Personally I think the problems is followers of followers rather than the origin of the beliefs in the first place. If we take Christianity back to it's core, and the first century of it's "creation", we find that it was largely peopled by women and/or slaves, that it was over-run and then franchised by elites required a fundamental rewriting.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

I'm just saying that there are atheist experiencers
or what not. Your contention works well for social
fabric, but not necessarily for experiencers of
'UFOs'.

The experience study that I linked to used a study group of 12 individuals from the North of England, I would expect that some of those may have been indoctrinated into religious groups while some will have had no religious instruction, it seems to be this factor, rather than belief in a deity specifically that will have influence. We're over all quite secular in the North.

The anthropological aspect I think is generally difficult to apply to post-industrial societies, perhaps even to the earliest of civilisations, it can mainly only be applied to smaller societies living a more subsistence based lifestyles, however I do think that it can be applied in diagnosing ways in which our society might be "sick" due to lack of understanding of the distribution of perceptual anomalies and what part those differences may play in past success as species going forward into the greatest period of uncertainty that we have thus far faced. Or something along those lines...



My key point being, just because an argument can be put that there is a pyschological element to all this, does not necessarily mean that I believe that all of it is in our heads, the possibility still remains that there is in addition some stimulus originating from our environment.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: KilgoreTrout

err no. He is a chronic liar and con artist.
He had a publisher pull his book when his co-author said he made the whole thing up. Imagine now how big it is for a publisher to pull a publication due to fraudulent claims.
sacha-christie-infomaniachousewife.blogspot.com...

It may not happen all the time, but films, tv programmes, books and articles do regularly get pulled at the slightest sniff of a scandal. The media are notoriously litigation shy, hence why so many people in the media get paid to keep stumm.

It is your opinion (presumably borrowed from Sacha's blog) that Larry Warren is a liar. I wasn't there so I don't know if he is lying or not, I don't know him personally so I don't know what problems he may or may not have in his life, or what may have led to him choosing to tell the "story" that he did. There may be a perfectly valid reason, obscured from us, that explains his behaviour, and it may be that he chose to lie for legitimate reasons. As I said, I wasn't there, neither was Sacha and nor were you. As I have stated previously, I don't feel the need to label anyone's statements as true or untrue, it is surplus to requirements,I'll happily leave the divisive black and white perceptions to you.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Thanks for clarifying your position!

I don't think the 'phenomenon' is entirely in people's heads either.. far from it.

but it would seem, subject to verification, that human psychology is usually
involved, perhaps even a prerequisite for 'high strangeness' to occur.

This is why I use the humans are a conduit metaphor quite a lot.. I think it's
not just a metaphor.. I think it's a literal fact.. but that would take research
that nobody seems to wish to do.. though it could be done.

I have spoken extensively with other researchers about this.. even some of
the folks that get discussed a lot.. and various others.. big names..

But everybody has their private pet projects --- you know, 'portals',
'magical warp drives' or just making huge $$$ on rubes.

Research that is possible.. that could produce actual results is not on
anyone's radar.. which is fascinating to me.

And as long as we are clarifying so to speak, I'm becoming
increasingly convinced, that one type of nearly-physical 'probe'
type thing may well exist, and be responsible for various mutilations,
assassinations and sightings.

it would be about 15 feet across, like two top hats (drum set) stuck together
with trailing appendages. A sentient machine intelligence I would say.

I'm still researching this.. but I would like to show that I'm not 'stuck in a rut'
on my positions, that when new evidence comes in, I recalculate my
positions.

Thanks for various quality posts that you do.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Here's a better summary of what I was trying to say...

The human brain appears to be prewired for mystic experiences, even if only some of the population encounters the triggers to sensitize them. Dynamic stabilization of these pathways (Kavanau, 1994) would give much of the population the feeling that the teachings offered by the mystics of their tribe are valid in some way. Their opinions are worthy of a special respect. The opinions and concerns voiced in early tribal councils would reflect the emotional and cognitive styles within the social group. When confronted with an opportunity or a threat, “The People” or “The Humans” (a label by which almost cultures define themselves) would gather and discuss the matter. The greater the numbers of cognitive and emotional styles, the more options and choices and hence potential survivability of the group would be possible. Those shamans displaying more sensitive left amygdalas would tend to council action and encourage The People to be confident. Those with more sensitive right hippocampus would tend to advise caution and long reflection before important actions are taken (Persinger, 1993). Those with normal levels of temporal lobe activity, constituting the bulk of the population, would display a normal range of emotional and cognitive skills. The accuracy of the mystic’s experiences and predictions would demonstrate the saliency of their statements compared to the average person’s experience. The majority of the population would have normal levels of activation in the temporal lobes, so that their frontal lobes would make more contributions to their emotions and cognitions than those whose temporal lobes were more active than usual: i.e., mystics. As the frontal lobes function to enable planning, anticipation, and foresight, especially in social situations, those with normal levels of sensitivity would be better able to recognize practical plans. However, given the association between creativity and enhanced temporal lobe sensitivity, it’s probable that such people were more likely to offer novel solutions to problems. People with less active temporal lobes would be less likely to conceive new solutions, but more able to review, approve, and act on them. A population of mystics within a social group enhances the group’s versatility and ability to respond to crises and opportunities.

The Role of Religious and Mystic Experiences In Human Evolution: A Corollary Hypothesis for NeuroTheology
Todd R. Murphy

So a single mystic would be nigh on useless or of limited value/application, but a group of mystics providing a range of interfaces is a potential survival game changer.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
But everybody has their private pet projects --- you know, 'portals',
'magical warp drives' or just making huge $$$ on rubes.

That was my take on the list that Adam posted, it is all about grasping for what might be profitable, not about increasing understanding. I think that everyone is in part motivated to maintain the security of their own little bubble but that such actions are increasingly detrimental to our future survival is becoming inescapable. Bubbles that remain opaque in such a climate should be burst.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

That's a great quote.

I'm an INTJ personality type in Briggs Meyers.. about 2% of the population..
and INTJ's are teased about planning for the impossible and having multiple
solutions available for the impossible, when others aren't even aware there
is a problem.

That's also a great example of a neurotype that provides a lot of value to
a social group. (probably a lot of INTJ's are just aspies..)

But a variant neurotype might not have the social skills to 'sell their versatility',
and may well be introverts, I'd say in general (a 'hermit' or 'shaman at the
edge of town' so to speak).

For example, i think that I understand the 'phenomenon' better than most living
people, but I can't 'sell it' to researchers, so I just post mostly wasted things on
ATS as an emotional outlet.. and irritate a lot of people.

My neurodiversity is simply wasted.

Of course i could be 100% wrong.. but in any case, rightish, wrongish or somewhere
in the middle, I've wasted my experience and neurodiversity for the most part..

I think a lot of varient neurotype people do the same..

Kev

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
But everybody has their private pet projects --- you know, 'portals',
'magical warp drives' or just making huge $$$ on rubes.

That was my take on the list that Adam posted, it is all about grasping for what might be profitable, not about increasing understanding. I think that everyone is in part motivated to maintain the security of their own little bubble but that such actions are increasingly detrimental to our future survival is becoming inescapable. Bubbles that remain opaque in such a climate should be burst.

Amen!

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
My neurodiversity is simply wasted.

Imagine how I feel...I clean toilets for a living...



...however, that's through choice. I could get paid a hell of lot more to use my brain a hell of a lot less.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

You have a fine brain IMHO.

what a waste that your work is with waste!

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

It may not happen all the time, but films, tv programmes, books and articles do regularly get pulled at the slightest sniff of a scandal. The media are notoriously litigation shy, hence why so many people in the media get paid to keep stumm.

The above does not apply in Warren's case.

All I can say is that I don't want to dig through the mudpit of the Warren Emissions again. He was on the bases at the time. He might have even been peripherally involved on the 3rd night of the incident but not to the extent he claimed in his book and for almost 20 years afterwards.

I am in full agreement with Zazz (and also with Warren's co-author Peter Robbins). Warren's story is mix of hearsay from the base and his own fabrications. He appears to have altered documents and photos related ,and unrelated, to the RFI and threatened people who questioned him repeatedly as his deception began to catch up with him. But that is where I would rather leave it for the sake of this thread.

For details direct from the guy who spent years defending him and co-wrote a book with him read Peter Robbins Statement on Larry Warren.

a reply to: mirageman

Has larry been formally charged with these alleged criminal activities? I have not seen anything . But then I might not be up to date.