What comes after Heaven or Hell

originally posted by: Whatsthisthen
a reply to: EasternShadow

And Muslims.

Not sure if it is applied to Judaist, because Judaism teach different concept of Heaven and Earth. Plus there is a place called Sheol or Gehena, where the dead are thrown like rubbish.

The church of Rome in comparison has great grand affairs. Especially those churches that were built when the church was expanding into the new world. The practice of building a church on the pagan place of a deity. There must have been some really knowledgeable occultists in the church in those days for they trapped and enslaved the pagan deity in some locations and built the church around it.

Brilliant Quite brilliant Sir The Catholic Church building on old Pagan Sites. I have often wondered why that is. Knowledgeable Occultics or ordinary men who received their knowledge from folk who, well how would you put it - folk not quite of this world,

In hell earth is heaven. Only reason God keeps it around. In heaven, its back to picking grapes.

originally posted by: Whatsthisthen
Reason being is that American evangelical church buildings have a hell below them without pergatory. I wandered into one and the only deceased person there was not that bad a person and could have walked out on his own except for belief in his situation. That was an old and abandoned church.

It is not possible for us to identify the cause of torment for any person in the afterlife. We are taught not to judge people in the Bible. Just because a person appear nice, doesn't mean he is a nice person. We dont know what a person have done in his life. Therefore, my advise to you is to leave the judgement to God, for HE knows everything inside a man's heart and mind. What you can do is to pray to God for forgiveness for the man. It may not help much but a prayer of faithful and sincere servant always bring attention to God.

originally posted by: Whatsthisthen
I've seen where a landscape nature Being was trapped by the church. She was humanised and hurried in the ground up to her waist. Her upper half awareness was used for more spiritual practices. Her lower half was used to create the churches vision of hell. Nature Beings are very creative and her equivalent of a womb was invaded by priests. Not as punishment, but as a classroom on darker aspects of Christian magic.

I assume this landscape nature being is a spirit. Although she was humanised, she was still a spirit. Spirits have their own laws and are not subjected to human conditioning. The only thing I can offer is, dark magic is forbidden. And yes, it is common ground for Judaism, Christian and Islam to condemn dark magic practitioners.

originally posted by: Whatsthisthen
So, from my point of view, the construction is the key point that suggests that there is not a common ground.

The common ground is there is a place for retribution in the afterlife. The difference is just how we identify such places. Is it hell as Christian and Islam believe, or is it Sheol as Judaism understand, or is it Karma in the form of endless suffering through rebirth cycles, as Buddhism describe?

originally posted by: Whatsthisthen
Nor have I come across anything to suggest that there is only one Deus.

The Bible, Torah/Tanakh, Quran and Vedas mentioned many gods.
The Hebrews sometime refer angels as gods. Quran mentioned pagan's god names, which acknowledge such false gods does exist. Not only that, Islam recognize many spirit entities such as Djinn who are potentially evil and good. In Vedas, deva and devi are equavalent to Greek's gods and goddess.

Monotheism doesn't deny the existence of many deus or theos or gods. However, monotheism only worship one God, who is commonly identified by Abrahamic Religion and Hindus as the Creator God

originally posted by: Whatsthisthen
Just my two Bob's worth.

Thanks for sharing the information about the old abandoned Church. I would happily investigate the construction site if I live nearby. Investigating Paranormal activities was my obsession when I was a teenager. Lol. You wouldn't believe me, if I tell you my paranormal experience. You know how crazy a teenager could be. Lol.

Anyway, just my two cents too.

This is why I can't believe in reincarnation.

a reply to: StallionDuck

They supposed to have same effect on their life that is formed by the previous one , even when they are not aware of this.
A subconscious learning perhaps ?

Nothing (I just can't subscribe to this

Why not ? There is no proof of anything else.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Investigating Paranormal activities was my obsession when I was a teenager. Lol. You wouldn't believe me, if I tell you my paranormal experience. You know how crazy a teenager could be. Lol.

(grin) I do! The paranormal was my passion too when younger. Still is and it has sorta taken over and I spend most of my time living it now.

Yeah, the whole "hell/Underworld" thing is an interesting study. I know that modern thinking leans towards unifying religion, yet from what I have seen I don't see that they have the same origins that can be unified.

Just my own home grown opinion there, but I am suspicious of the idea of monotheism.

I didn't really judge the fella, just wondered why he was there alone below an abandoned church. I just pointed out that he could walk out if he wanted.

The church was in Idaho in the USA (along the banks of a series of lakes from memory, been nearly a decade ago). There were murders or disappearances I looked into from afar.

Disused churches are like that, most of the finer religious energies have disappeared over the years. My suspicion is that if someone is trapped in the hell below the church, they keep that aspect "alive", if I can use that term.

So the "cure" for the location, to my thinking, is to get them to move on by solving their problem. The question of people in hell is a difficult one I've pondered occasionally. Local hells pollute the landscape, but what happens if you open them up to clean the landscape?

The living will be healthier if you do, but then there is a responsibility too if you let bad people loose. Enough women and children come to grief as it is. So I quite agree with you.

But there has to be a sensible solution somewhere.

I still find children who died of neglect in the old farms near my home.

I find a lot of cases are like that fella below the churcht. Like people who came down with bubonic plague on sea voyages. They generally got thrown overboard and drowned. It is said that people who die underwater are difficult to help. If one can get their attention so they look you in the eyes, then one can just point upwards to where the surface is. They'll see the sunlight and off they go. With plague, modern antibiotics will fix that.

If one adds a tiny sample to a teaspoon of honey and feed that to the deceased plague victim they will recover. They will generally turn up very punctually for their medicine until cured.

Same with syphilis and gonorrhea. Those two most ancient of diseases were designed to cull bloodlines so to speak. I learned about that while interested in disease.

There is a place I like very much because it is so very silent and no one is there. I've mentioned it on ATS before. It is a landscape with see through glass mountains the colour of sulfur. The planes have black lakes of putrid human decay, one can make out the remains in the water.

Looking upwards, the sky is black with a grid pattern of bright yellow lines. In places the lines turn downwards as if shapes above push them down. Like stalactites. Those are the hells below the churches.

If one follows the rivers one comes to caverns and in there one can learn things of ancient times. My own education was to be given two human children by the "cursed elves" who are there and from who's energies(?), magics(?) the two diseases were created.

The children were a little girl of about eight and her little brother of about four or five years. British children whom I call Elizabeth and Edward. They had congenital syphilis and died, and were decaying in the afterlife.

Amoxycillan worked on them, along with scrubbing and cleaning inside and out many times including removing a large meter long thick pink worm from their gastric-intestinal/bowels. That worm can migrate from gastro to nervous system.

Biologically a messy business, but it was worth it with Elizabeth and Edward. Elizabeth is very bossy in her fashion, even to me. Especially if I mix up her name with another girl by the name of Jennifer. Hands on hips and glaring at me she is, as if she could pout any more than that - a sweetheart. They "live" in, or beyond the fields of flowers these days.

Basically the target of those two diseases is not the ones who initially contracted the illness, the target is their children.

That underworld and it's landscape were not always that way, something happened to it. I would like to try and fix it. Dunno how though, yet.

I'm waffling on.

(smile) Actually, come to think of it, I find it suspiciously odd that I find myself in a theological forum. Hmm, a certain American young lady is up to something methinks.

"Broaden your horizon." she says.

I'm starting to think I might be someone's project.

"You are." is her reply, and she blows me a kiss.

It is very difficult to stay annoyed with her.

originally posted by: EasternShadow

Thanks for sharing the information about the old abandoned Church. I would happily investigate the construction site if I live nearby. Investigating Paranormal activities was my obsession when I was a teenager. Lol. You wouldn't believe me, if I tell you my paranormal experience. You know how crazy a teenager could be. Lol.

Anyway, just my two cents too.

No Please tell us about your Paranormal experiences!One of my daughters name is Lilith, there ain't much that doesn't surprise me. I will say one thing about Lil she's very overprotective about her sisters...
ON a compleatly different note, this is my tune of the day...earphones in walking along Hastings east sussex seafront --www.youtube.com...

a reply to: Masterjaden

You spend all your time in hell and exorcists are the most hated... Hmm go figure lol.

(smile) when you put it that way it does sound weird.

I have a hunch that it is because of what the Order of Exorcists and the Inquisitors did to people beloved of the fairy folk and Nature Spirits.

a reply to: DpatC

Been a while DpatC.

I wonder if monotheism might be a concept of war and conquest over polytheism perhaps?

One big Deus ravaging the landscape devouring the smaller gods . . . .

(wink)

a reply to: DpatC

Well I believe in the super string theory and that it has infinite dimensions if you believe in Heaven and Hell maybe you spend a couple of million years in heaven or hell and god sends you in a different Universe in a different time and a different dimension. But he never sends you back in this Universe we live in. Heaven is never stagnant with the ssme people. New people go there and back in the mutiple dimensions of the super string theory.3

a reply to: dude1

Sure there is

Look at the universe and everything in it. Why else would we be here? For what purpose? I mean, we literally had to have perfection in every sense for this planet and all on it to exist.

There is this common saying when a father/mother holds their child in their arms for the first time. Many, if they did not believe prior, suddenly believes then.

Heaven is where you end up. Imagine a world filled with so much richness & plenty that no one ever suffers there, ever. God takes me there to show me what awaits all souls once they learn to be good.

Firstly all souls are held in stasis & led through earth lives to witness good & evil. Then they are judged in Hell & made to witness the suffering caused by acts of evil. Eventually all souls learn to be good & can go to Heaven. They have to learn to be good or they cannot exist with other people. When they go to Heaven they have godly powers that can cause immeasurable damage if used for evil. Many people report that they were in the astral worlds & suddenly became filled with godly power, & then started smiting everyone & causing vast amounts of damage & death. Then when they returned to earth they were shocked at the way they behaved in the astral worlds. They say that they are not really like that at all & would never be that evil etc. But once people get power it corrupts them totally. They start smiting everything they don't like instead of accepting it. They are pretty darn evil. This is the evil God sees in the core of all your souls. God knows what you are all capable of, & so God puts you through the hard school of the earth where you are constantly threatened by Hell if you are evil. And this trains you to be good even under immense pressure to be evil. That is all life is. A training of your soul to be good instead of evil, always. (The Angel of God literally just spoke & invited me into Heaven!! I don't expect you to believe that of course.)

So that is what awaits you all. Heaven. When you are there you will find you are millions of times more alive than you are here. God has taken me there & made me experience the greater consciousness we have there. It is exactly like being millions of times more alive. Experiencing everything far more clearly than the human body can experience things. Coming back to earth is like entering the land of the dead. Everyone here is like a dead zombie. Only partially alive & conscious. Everyone here is being watched by God & led through their lives to experience good & evil & their consequences. That is the purpose of life here. God told me that the only things people own are the good deeds they do. That is how God judges you. By the amount of good deeds you own! So be good to others every day & always. Just do good deeds till the day you die. Forget all selfish desires.

a reply to: DpatC

The white light you see (in my opinion) is the birth canal...

Between death and birth could be a millennium as time may be different in the spirit realm. Where you come back is really your choice and decisions are not based on human thought or human need. (obviously) I think they are based on what you need to work on. If they were based on greed and pleasure or comfort we would all be at the very least comfortable throughout our time here. Most of us are not comfortable..

I know I would choose to be much wiser at birth as opposed to the stupid decisions I made in this life..

originally posted by: Whatsthisthen
a reply to: EasternShadow

(grin) I do! The paranormal was my passion too when younger. Still is and it has sorta taken over and I spend most of my time living it now.

I know the feeling. I love the Lyrics to this song -

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: DpatC

The song is about a Gabriel, an archangel I presume. I'm very out of touch.

a reply to: EasternShadow

You can't apply tanakh or Torah to gentiles.

You can through Jesus.
John_5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Isaiah and John are Hebrews meant to teach the Hebrews, God's firstborn. It's the responsibility every Jews should know that they are not born by faith but by blood convenant.

1Corinthians_12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Hebrews_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews_12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

And here's the problem. What instruction? Clearly Moses laws doesn't apply to Christian. Who bear Jesus witness in the time of Gautama Buddha. No one. So how do you justify this? Remember, God is justice, not a blind minded jealous God.Text

Jesus taught every law given to man from Adam, Abram, Noah, and Moses. Not one command of the God of Abram was not taught to all men by Jesus.

Satan doesn't create human. God does. The image of God applies to everyone, including Caine. God doesn't abandon anyone.

God created only one man in his image and in His likeness. Every man after Adam was procreated by man and not by God. Man's countenance has fallen since Adam and his image corrupted. All death is from sin and sin is not in the likeness of God.

there is no hell or heaven. we die and they bury us. thats it.

originally posted by: Seede
You can through Jesus.
John_5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Believe in Moses does not equal to following the laws written in Tanakh or Torah. We both know how Paul exempt Christians from Moses Laws.

originally posted by: Seede
Jesus taught every law given to man from Adam, Abram, Noah, and Moses. Not one command of the God of Abram was not taught to all men by Jesus.

Not according to Paul. Israel alone had received the Mosaic Law and was under its administration. Gentiles were excluded from the Law, as was the Church, the body of Christ (Ephesians 2.11-13; Romans 3.1-2, 6.14).

Romans 6:14
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

(Romans 9:4-5, New American Bible).
“They are Israelites; theirs the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; theirs the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, is the Messiah”

God's own word with regard to the covenant with Abraham and his descendants.
(Genesis 17:7)
“I will establish my covenant between me and you, and your offspring after you throughout their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you”

(Exodus 19:4-6)
You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now therefore, if you obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession out of all the peoples. Indeed, the whole earth is mine, but you shall be for me a priestly kingdom and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the Israelites” .

originally posted by: Seede
God created only one man in his image and in His likeness. Every man after Adam was procreated by man and not by God. Man's countenance has fallen since Adam and his image corrupted. All death is from sin and sin is not in the likeness of God.

Sorry, but Genesis 1:27, refer to humankind, not one man called Adam alone. Plus, giving birth does not necessary mean bringing life. A lot of parents end up with dead babies either, at birth or during pregnancy.

Acts 17:25
nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;

It seems death is a conspiracy itself! The truth is, do we really want to know what comes next? Might be a big let down.

originally posted by: Churchhousecreeper
It seems death is a conspiracy itself! The truth is, do we really want to know what comes next? Might be a big let down.

Maybe not. But what if you have 10 minutes to live, and Apocalypse, is coming fast. What if I tell you I can offer you shelter and food. Would you follow me or would you rather die?

originally posted by: Damla
there is no hell or heaven. we die and they bury us. thats it.

wrong
i used to believe that as well
it is 1000,000,000% a lie

You are going to get a big wake up to the spiritual side of life
at the moment you are just a moron like everyone else at this site
you will all burn in Hell most likely
God takes me to watch people being judged & thrown into The Lake of Fire
I imagine all you morons will end up there screaming in absolute agony for a few years.
You best repent your evil twisted soul & get back on track to being a saint instead of a demon