On the synthesis between revealed Judeo-Christian tradition & the way of the Tao.

Hi ATS,

Per the title, some thought as to why I believe that the Tao & the Judeo-Christian tradition can become synthesised in one's understanding to a point that we begin to experience the 'path of the angels'.. A pure & wholesome synthesis, a combining which ensures that the best aspects of each complement each other in a manner of harmony which cannot be rivaled by any other proposed synthesis, or single spiritual tradition upon the surface of the Earth..

(or under the sea!)

The Yin/Yang symbol & philosophy refers not to the alleged (but untrue) proposition of equal & opposite supra-cosmic powers of light & darkness supposed by a Zoroastrian-type heresy, but rather refers to the inherent balance between forces of creation & destruction within the realm of the natural cosmos. Nature is (non-paradoxically) balanced & yet in flux, with the variations in the cosmological constants supplying a form of ground-state energetic motion.. In this way the ground-state of the natural order is said to be constant flux, or non-syncopated rhythm, between the actions of a fixed array of constants within a range of ordinary variability (see the TED talk by Rupert Sheldrake regarding the suppositions & falsehoods concerning the 'scientific' method in the modern age..) Hence rhythm, yet random.

Time Crystals are a thing, and a fascinating thing at that... I believe they give us a clear pointer in this direction.



This therefore is very, very important to understand as a Christian practitioner, a follower of Jesus, as it represents the crucial synthesis between the sometimes difficult to understand/ hard to accept reasoning behind the religion that is true – the revealed path of Elohim through YHWH through Christ*, and that of the somewhat easier-to-absorb & naturally appealing spiritual, philosophical, ethical, societal, martial & personal precepts of Taoism. One could say that Taoism combined properly with Judeo-Christianity is the path of the Angels. It is possible for them to fall [IE – turned to the dark side] and yet when properly applied, it is the supreme way of the warrior in the defence of the Principles, of oneself & of the innocent - in the defence of Righteousness, of Heaven & Earth. Humanity has “not seen, heard or imagined all that is in store for them that love God & are called according to His purposes in Christ Jesus.” - and so we must remain humble & consider carefully all of the many intersecting paths which map out the 'geoglyphs of truth'.

As a Christian, one must be on guard against heresy & false understanding, false witness & so on – and of course the ever-present scourge of Satanism. However, when one looks into the original translations of the well-known oracular tradition, the Tao Te Ching (The Book of Changes, or the I Ching), one is convinced by an innate & fully wholesome, natural understanding of the forces of nature, to accept that there is a deep & supreme wisdom embedded & enfolded in the reverent tone & the non-occult use of oracles. The Jews of the Twelve tribes of Israel were permitted to use oracular speculation as a ready means for testing a yes/ no, left/ right, true/ false series of binary decisions – where their own human wisdom was not sufficient to inform them properly of the best course of action. The priesthood was responsible for casting the oracles – two stones known as the Urrim & Thummim – white & black respectively, of the same size, shape & weight, the same texture. They were taken from a bag or a pouch in the garb of the priest garments after prayers were offered on the matter at hand, with Urrim representing positive, Thummim representing negative – hence all questions of polar opposite binary outcomes could be answered decisively by the Providence of the One who ordered the very fabric of the Cosmos, who was able to manipulate Reality such that the correct answer came out every time, But then, it was down to the wisdom of the people to determine the right manner in which to enact whatever process was indicated by the oracle. In circumstances where complex problems could not be answered sufficiently by the oracle, where gradations & subtleties, distinctions, injunctions (etc) might be involved, the people either held debate among the judges, or called upon the LORD directly, requesting an answer via one of the prophets whom God had raised up in various parts of the encampments, and later the settlements of Canaan/ Israel. The prophets were often known by the enquirer, but on many occasions a wandering prophet, or a prophet from further afield, would be required to deliver the response to the person (usually the judges, the king, or a member of the ruling priesthood). These prophets would receive utterance by the direct inspiration of the Spirit of the Living God, and would be empowered to repeat the inspired words upon arriving with the persons for whom the message was intended. In this manner a religious standard of Revelation was established upon the Earth. One nation from among many, chosen for no sake of prior personal righteousness, but rather by the virtue that their forebears had been righteous men & women, who lived according to their conscience in a time when great iniquity was to be found in the major power centres of the civilised world. And let's face it, iniquity is always rampant in every generation, because naturally occurring aspects of human character remain paradoxically trapped between a desire for righteousness, and the selfish drives which are hard-wired into our DNA.. The Jews were held to account severely when they rebelled against the revealed path which had been provided for them, because they held a privileged heritage, and in theory it should have been revered & held sacrosanct. Many times the national commitments were reiterated, but the result of slack adherence to the precepts & practices, and the interpolation of other belief systems into the circle of the Israel which had been called to a higher standard of righteousness, led inevitably to spiritual consequences based in universal law, more especially severe due to their having received the direct instruction of the living God.

Some people believe that the revealed path of Judeo-Christian tradition represents the work of an inferior Creator, a demiurge who created a poor quality universe, an imperfect creation by an imperfect creator. However, without going into an extremely lengthy discussion of why this is not the case (will save it for another thread) – please accept an assurance from one who has received direct comfort, redemptive grace, and bucket-loads of inspiration also (in minor matters of personal, familial endeavours, etc) - that the Creator had not created nor revealed anything that was not in its ways perfect & just. The central thread of the Old Testament is a tale of redemption, a treatise on the issue of the world's sickness, the pathological infection of a fallen human nature (again, a discussion for another thread) - which is recovered by the God who is over all things, by means of a plan centred on justice, mercy & grace, with humility.

Continued...

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

The anger which some of God's words convey in the Old Testament are a stumbling block to the desire for a 'loving God' – but they are not aimed at the ordinary, hard-working, morally upright man or woman, in the main – they are inevitably aimed at the unjust, evil behaviours of persons from all strata of Jewish society who degraded their inheritance & brought dishonour to their status as a chosen race, by oppressing & violating the integrity of the lives & livelihoods of those people who are simply attempting to live life as best they can. Indeed, in the modern day, the words of judgement are aimed squarely at the occult politicians, the bankers, the corporate slave-drivers, the criminal underworld. They heap up resources for themselves & deny the most basic standards of living to those for whom it is in their power to provide. They try every which way to justify their oppression of the poor; the way they rig the system in favour of the wealthy, and so on. They cannot justify these things, and so the angry words of judgement are aimed most severely against those – the ones who neither enter in, nor permit others to enter in, to the virtue of a life of right living, with proper wages, the ability to secure a home & occupation for each family, and a community rooted in love for God & for one another.

The resources exist to provide comfortably for all of us – but the ever-decreasing circle of those whom have collected the resources of a planet together for a cabal of perhaps a hundred thousand people, indicates only that they will face a more severe judgement - that should never have been an issue for anyone to avoid, had they been paying attention & living willfully in a right manner. Many of them compound their error by following a path which is literally Satanic, bending the knee to the arch-demon of the infernal host, rather than being willing to lose their fortune, status & power – yet regain their soul - by turning themselves over into the hands of a God whose promises are protection, surety, love, peace, happiness through familial love within a community of like-minded souls. It s not about any one church, but rather it is about justice, mercy & humility.

And so, what now of Taoism? I hold that it is a path of natural spiritual living. It is rooted not in the worship of nature, or of spirits, but rather it is an intellectual philosophical system based upon the observed patterns & flux/balances of nature. In its intended form it is wholesome, edifying, calm, peaceful, loving, caring & strong. It is my honest belief that many of the deeper spiritual understandings which can be gained in this world can be found most surely in Taoist precepts, ideally with a proper understanding of the eternal gospel of salvation being the revealed complementing component of total spiritual awareness when placed next to the perceptions of the Tao. Inquiry, observation, reflection, work, patience, refinement, growth & strength is found naturally in the ethically-sound system of the Tao; the revelation of the Creator sits above this understanding, but it does not crush it – rather, the revelation deals with concepts which are higher than those of our material world, and the natural order which Taoism elegantly describes. In Kabbalah, the Malkuth, or natural world, is the lowest of the aeons or sephiroth. Taoism sits within and somewhat around the Kabbalist system, with the revealed tenets of the Judeo-Christian (and to some extent the esoteric traditions of each; Kabbalah & Gnosticism respectively)*. The esoteric systems are right for those who are able to understand them. For everyone else, the truth is a simple matter of conscience, and we all possess access to the truth which that speaks of in our daily existence. In seeking truth rather than comfort, our eyes naturally fall upon Jesus – the only one of the Messiah' personalities whose system of belief & power has remained in place down the past two thousand years, ever-widening in its influence & typography as new denominations branch out to serve ever-greater swathes of the human race, and the many personality types of which it is composed. There is a church for every persuasion, and no one church has a monopoly on the eternal gospel, however much they may claim it to be so.

* Brutalised, distorted, shirked, twisted, despoiled, manipulated, assailed, ethically assaulted & morally besmirched by Mohammed's ameliorating deception.

Part of our problem in the modern age is that we have forsaken & lost touch with the natural rhythms of Heaven & Earth. We think the 9-5 represents the order towards which we must strive. In reality, we need to harmonise with wider expanses of time - the seasons, with the changes in nature throughout each year, with feast days & fasting, with planting & harvest, celebration & mourning. Our work & our sleep should be attuned to natural circadian rhythm – even our music is incorrectly tuned (with 'concert A' tuning being 440Hz, when it should be 432Hz – again, a matter for another thread).

I could persist with writing for another hundred pages, but I realise that nobody likes to read books on ATS, and so here it is, a thread which contains some of my observations regarding the natural synthesis between the revealed Judeo-Christian path, and the Taoist path of naturalist inquiry & reflection. I would be keen to hear your thoughts on the matter!

Cheers,



FITO.

I was really impressed until ...

* Brutalised, distorted, shirked, twisted, despoiled, manipulated, assailed, ethically assaulted & morally besmirched by Mohammed's ameliorating deception.

Do you find it strange that the Dalai Lama stated that "Islam like all other major religious traditions carry the same message. A message of love, compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, contentment, self-discipline”.

Why then, your opposing views. Perhaps religions are very much like mirrors. They reflect what's really in our heart. Dalai Lama has a heart full of love whereas you have something else entirely.

As for Judeo-Christian tradition, that's a construct that has never existed. Jews can pray in a mosque but never a Christian Church. Jews abide to the old law.

originally posted by: glend
I was really impressed until ...

* Brutalised, distorted, shirked, twisted, despoiled, manipulated, assailed, ethically assaulted & morally besmirched by Mohammed's ameliorating deception.

Do you find it strange that the Dalai Lama stated that "Islam like all other major religious traditions carry the same message. A message of love, compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, contentment, self-discipline”.

Why then, your opposing views. Perhaps religions are very much like mirrors. They reflect what's really in our heart. Dalai Lama has a heart full of love whereas you have something else entirely.

As for Judeo-Christian tradition, that's a construct that has never existed. Jews can pray in a mosque but never a Christian Church. Jews abide to the old law.

Why can't Jews pray in a Christian Church?

a reply to: glend

As for Judeo-Christian tradition, that's a construct that has never existed.

Right, it was not a term before 1960.
I think it was a political tool that was invented after World War Two to try to make Christian people more sympathetic to the Jews as having something in common.
The two ideologies are in direct opposition but I think there was an idea the powers that be wanted to promote that religion is really nothing but a value set, so there would be a lot of things the two religions could agree on as far as what is right and wrong.
Of course fundamentally the ideologies are different in that the one is in favor of genocide, while the other gives no commands to kill other people just because they do not believe as we do.
One could argue that Judaism does not promote genocide on everyone, but it could also be rebutted by saying that it is very much promoted when it comes to "foreign" people living on the land they believe God gave to Abraham.

Look, I fully get that Muslims are capable of being wonderful, loving people - however, Islam as an ideology is nothing but poison. Some say it was invented by agents of the Catholic church who encouraged Mohammed's blind heresy, but I have no knowledge as to whether that's true. I just know them by their fruits. Early Islam was a scourge on the civilised world, and the modern fundamentalist views are equally a scourge upon humanity. I don't know how anyone can read the Koran, the Hadith & the Sunnah without coming away with a sick feeling in their stomach. Taqqiyah, the precept which allows the Muslim fundamentalist to be utterly deceptive about the meaning of his or her belief system in order to gain the upper hand over an opposing culture or religious group, just cements the reality that Islam was a perversion of the combined Abrahamic paths of Judaism & Christianity.

As for whether Judeo-Christianity was 'a term' before the 1960's, I don't know, and misses the point entirely. We're talking about a body of knowledge, scripture & tradition which inextricably links Christianity to Judaism, whether or not anyone called it anything before 1960 or not. Christianity was formed out of Judaic practice, Jesus was a Jew, and so they are linked, whether it had a name or not - the Old Testament was in use by the early Christians, and so the two are linked. Judaism of course will not consider itself linked to Christianity, but that's by the by. We're talking about the progression from Judaism to Christianity, and then the attempted heresy of Islam. Mohammed really thought that 'the strength of my arm' was sufficient grounds to be considered a sign that his beliefs were from God. Thomas Aquinas rightly observes that the 'strength of the arm' is the same 'sign' employed by robbers & murderers. Of which Mohammed & his followers were both. They brutalised the middle East & North Africa for centuries, then tried to overtake Europe, but were pushed back, eventually. We have been engaged in constant Crusade against them, and they in a state of Jihad against us, ever since.

Modern Muslims are of course a far different thing, in the main, as they can be decent, upright, humble & caring people within a society of grace from one to the other. But don't ever be deceived that the 'faith' (totalitarian life system of superiority) was ever conceived as anything truly divine. Mohammed considered himself the 'Helper' spoken of by Jesus (or at least, he tried to pass himself off as such). The 'helper' was actually the agency of the Holy Spirit, poured out upon the believers in the Christian path. The giver of gifts such as prayer in tongues, visions, miracles, healing, dreams of spiritual nature, and so on. Helpful stuff. NOT the sword, and the rape, and the theft of all that was good & holy in the Middle East & North Africa over the course of twelve or more centuries.

a reply to: LolliKum

Of course fundamentally the ideologies are different in that the one is in favor of genocide, while the other gives no commands to kill other people just because they do not believe as we do.

Exactly.

If anyone has any thoughts on the actual premise of the thread I would appreciate that. Perhaps I shouldn't have incorporated my belief concerning fundamentalist Islam being a heresy of the worst sort, but it is kind of relevant. The Taoist way has no congruence with Islam, just as true Christian belief has no congruence with Islam.

But what do people think concerning the possibility of Taoism as 'naturally acquired religion' & the Judeo-Christian tradition as 'revealed religion'..? Do you believe there is enough of a linkage to form a synthesis between the two? If one is blessed within the Christian tradition with the charismatic gifts, do you hold that Taoism has something good to offer as a means of building one's character & general convictions of balance - 'within the world, but not of it'...?

I genuinely believe that it is possible to gain a great deal from the study of the natural rhythms & precepts observed in Taoism, as a fully committed Christian - thus combining 'the revealed & the perceived' pathways, the naturally divine & the supernal divine. I believe that Taoism is a perfect representation of the 'tenth Sephiroth' in the Kabbalah, that of Malkuth, or 'the World/ the Realm/ the Kingdom', sitting at the base of the Tree of Life, the realm of Mankind, the Universe. The higher sephiroth represent higher & interacting stations of the Tree, the map of the divine principles & the divisions of the dimensions of the supernatural realms. I therefore believe that we should have no worries about studying Taoism deeply & applying its gifts in establishing a map of ourselves & the universe of which we are a part. The Tao represents the universal motions & the flow of energies - fixed within a range of values, the universal constants oscillate & range between points on a scale. All of which enables us to gain a deeper understanding of the human condition, and the way in which we should interact with the world around us.

'Move with the season' could be a good slogan for the path of the Tao.

a reply to: LolliKum

Agree with your every point LolliKum.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

This peace and love thing that religion speaks about can only be 'achieved' by not buying into labels.
Here and now is the one life...............does life have a name or label? Or is life divided by words and labels and then there can be conflict and fear.

Remove all labels and words and concepts right here and now and peace will be revealed.

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.
The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.
Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.
Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

This peace and love thing that religion speaks about can only be 'achieved' by not buying into labels.

Here and now is the one life...............does life have a name or label? Or is life divided by words and labels and then there can be conflict and fear.

Remove all labels and words and concepts right here and now and peace will be revealed.

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

I agree that Tao is not eternal. Christianity is a religion that teaches us that our spirits are eternal.

Tao is a philosophy and a practice only. In Christianity, the Bible warns us against trying to combine the two. It only creates confusion on what should take top priority in the lives of Christians.

Colossians 2:6-10

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Itisnowagain

This peace and love thing that religion speaks about can only be 'achieved' by not buying into labels.

Here and now is the one life...............does life have a name or label? Or is life divided by words and labels and then there can be conflict and fear.

Remove all labels and words and concepts right here and now and peace will be revealed.

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

I agree that Tao is not eternal.

The verse does not say that the Tao is not eternal.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Itisnowagain

This peace and love thing that religion speaks about can only be 'achieved' by not buying into labels.

Here and now is the one life...............does life have a name or label? Or is life divided by words and labels and then there can be conflict and fear.

Remove all labels and words and concepts right here and now and peace will be revealed.

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

I agree that Tao is not eternal.

The verse does not say that the Tao is not eternal.

Tao is philosophy. It is a philosophy that can only be taught in this life, so it is not eternal.

This life is not all that there is, although I know that you believe it is.

originally posted by: Deetermined
Christianity is a religion that teaches us that our spirits are eternal.

And no one can say what 'spirit' is.............it has no name.
Can what is actually happening right now be put into words?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: Deetermined
Christianity is a religion that teaches us that our spirits are eternal.

And no one can say what 'spirit' is.............it has no name.

Yes, people have defined and experienced what the "spirit" is, but not everyone will.

originally posted by: Deetermined
I agree that Tao is not eternal.

It seems that you read the verse I posted and agreed that the Tao is not eternal.......when the verse is not saying that the Tao is not eternal.

Look before I get into a discussion with you..........please address what I have pointed out...if you have not noticed that you read the verse wrong then you need to.

The Tao is eternal..................but it cannot be named.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

The Tao is eternal..................but it cannot be named.

The Tao only claims that it can't be named, but in Christianity, the Holy Spirit is a witness to God and a witness to Jesus (including His name).

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Itisnowagain

The Tao is eternal..................but it cannot be named.

The Tao only claims that it can't be named, but in Christianity, the Holy Spirit is a witness to God and a witness to Jesus (including His name).

The problem with the names 'Jesus' and 'God' is that they are believed to be entities because they have names.

But right here and right now is being witnessed. And it is where and when all names appear.
The seer and seen are one.


The Tao does not claim anything...................it is what actually IS.......the word 'Tao' is not a belief or philosophy.... it is a pointer to what actually is. What is actual cannot be named.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

But right here and right now is being witnessed. And it is where and when all names appear.

To you, which names appear?

a reply to: Deetermined

"Naming is the origin
of all particular things."

Were you born with words and language? Notice that in the bible it says that you have to become like a little child to enter the kingdom. When you were born you had no thoughts..............prior to words............the kingdom is.