Chicago police confronted for planting bait car full of Nikes in the Ghetto

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: gamer2343

Where did you get that I had my first child before I was married? That's false.
And I guess you missed the part where my kids did not have both parents.

This is not about me.
This is about right and wrong. Being poor does not change what is right and wrong.

Its not but you’re definitely the one who brought it up. I’m not saying it’s that they shouldn’t be arrested for theft, I’m saying that in my opinion I believe that this is definitely not one of the best ways that cops have used their resources.

And I’m also saying that if I see a twenty lying on the ground and I don’t have any reasonable expectation that someone walking by just dropped it as far I’m concerned it’s a free $20 bill. Different strokes different folks

a reply to: ClovenSky

Location matters greatly,

Go lose a wallet in ANY city and then in ANY smaller town, where do you think you're odds of having your wallet returned are highest?

More people, less chance of having wallet returned, less people, more chance of having wallet returned.

Why wasn't this nike truck left open in the burbs by the local sk8 park?

I bet the outcome would of still netted some thefts... Seems more like this was a economic related targeting...

Maybe we are seeing the Peter Principle at work with a large part of law enforcement.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: gamer2343

Abandoned property has no owner. The things you just described are not illegal.

If I lose my earrings or phone while swimming at the beach I abandoned it?

It belongs to someone else and is property that’s not yours.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: RadioRobert

Was stealing from 18-wheelers legal activity prior to this? Made a new law to catch them going about their law-abiding way? Or is taking things from trucks okay in the city of Chicago, except they enacted a new law that proscribes only Nike theft? Maybe it's okay to steal from trucks in Norwood Park and Beverly, but not in Englewood? Those tricky police...

You didn't answer my question again...lol

It seems reading your posts you have a subtly of a jack hammer.

Putting boxes of shoes in a box truck creates thieves the same way women without burkhas create rapists.

Is that subtle enough for you?

It doesn't say much for your community when the conditoons for this potentiality to occur exist

No wonder no one wants to invest in this communitt. Maybe these people tried having a decent culture and stopped begging the fovernment to fix a problem that the government cant fix maybe this wouldnt happen

originally posted by: gamer2343

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: gamer2343

Where did you get that I had my first child before I was married? That's false.
And I guess you missed the part where my kids did not have both parents.

This is not about me.
This is about right and wrong. Being poor does not change what is right and wrong.

Its not but you’re definitely the one who brought it up. I’m not saying it’s that they shouldn’t be arrested for theft, I’m saying that in my opinion I don’t believe this is definitely not one of the best ways that cops have used their resources.

And I’m also saying that if I see a twenty lying on the ground and I don’t have any reasonable expectation that someone walking by just dropped it as far I’m concerned it’s a free $20 bill. Different strokes different folks

Correction re. who brought what up

originally posted by: gamer2343
Yeah you probably grew up with a picket fence, You live in a bubble. I’m sure a large majority of the population would pick up $100 bill lying on the ground not walk past it.

I think this is an efficient use of cops' resources.
They can either respond to calls in the neighborhood every day and investigate each one individually.
Or, they can round up a bunch of the thieves in one organized operation.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: gamer2343

What's illegal about picking up a $100 bill lying on the ground .. who does it belong to?

The poster earlier said they’d return it to the police station apparently they’re the most honest person of which I’ve ever had the privilege to converse

originally posted by: Tranceopticalinclined
a reply to: ClovenSky

Location matters greatly,

Why? What type of situation would warrant taking something that does not belong to you? When would that be morally acceptable? When could you take something that was not yours that wouldn't incur a possible moral consequence?

A really good question that was brought up was in the instance of abandoned property that has no ownership. Would it make a difference as to the land that it was located on? Would something abandoned on a parcel of land belong to the landowner?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

It's not breaking the law, the speed trap as you defined it is illegal, why do you keep using this argument when I proved it invalid. Speed must be dictated by a survey conducted recently which dictates the speed. Cops putting up a speed sign to create a situation where they will catch people speeding is illegal, and the people caught in this way are not actually breaking the law. The bait does not create a criminal, it catches them.

You didn't address my post one inch...lol what is reasonable...

My speed trap is not illegal in any way... You have a US road with speed limit 55 and at a town limit the speed can be whatever they want it to be, and in this case 25. After you exit the town limit it goes back to 55...very very legal. Now if there is nothing but open fields for 5 miles until you see a building..a town or city limit is still that.

You are suggesting I said cops put up an illegal sign which yes that is illegal, so is that what you based the premise of your point on, putting words in my mouth to fit your narrative?...lol

Back to my point...what is reasonable as a bait situation...

a reply to: Tranceopticalinclined

Cause real skaters don't wear Nikes...

30 people were shot dead in Chicago this weekend. THAT Is more important than a truck full of Nikes used as bait. Priorities people. Priorities.

This is just another story to try to show 'racial profiling' and such. Want me to post all of the videos of young black youth going into stores and stealing/running out? Happens ALL the time. Shoe Stores. Apple Store. Clothing Stores. Convenient Stores.

Find one of a group of white kids in Dallas doing it. You won't.

a reply to: Tranceopticalinclined

Because the burbs typically do not have a problem of a huge number of thieves. In the burbs I live in there have been large numbers of thefts from vehicles .. want to guess where the thieves live .. hint, not the burbs. They drive in, steal from cars, then drive back home.

originally posted by: RadioRobert


Putting boxes of shoes in a box truck creates thieves the same way women without burkhas create rapists.

Is that subtle enough for you?

Naw you are still jack hammering it...

a reply to: gamer2343

I’m not saying it’s a race issue because they were majority white officers but if you look closely there were black officers involved too it’s more of a cultural issue those officers are probably not from that area and they come to the other side of town

Yeah, a bunch of privileged cops that don't understand the struggle. Like Eddie Johnson, the [url=https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/29/us/eddie-johnson-new-chicago-police-leader-has-deep-roots-in-a-city-adrift-in-turmoil.html]superintendent[/url ] of Chicago's PD. You know, the black guy who grew up in the Projects in Chicago.

a reply to: gamer2343

Yes, you go home and leave your earrings you abandoned it. How in the world is anyone with a metal detector going to determine who lost a coin 10 years ago? There are actual laws that determine this, the guy with the metal detector who keeps things is NOT breaking the law, learn the law.

originally posted by: BlueAjah

originally posted by: spacedoubt
a reply to: Hecate666
....
This was a racist scenario. They knew in advance, the demographic.
They were baited like fish.

Are you saying this was unfair because of the race of the people in the neighborhood?
I think it is racist to claim this, because you are saying that because of race, some people can not resist stealing.

originally posted by: spacedoubt

I think given the proper circumstance, people from all demographics would steal.
But the circumstances have to be modified, to provide the right kind of bait.

Agreed that some people of all demographics would steal.
However, not ALL people from every demographic would steal.
There are poor people who would never steal, just as there are rich people who would never steal.
Immorality has no economic or racial boundaries.
I choose to believe that most people are basically moral, but the comments in this thread are threatening my faith in humanity.

I am saying, because of race, they chose to bait the truck with a product that appealed to that demo.
And place that "cheese" into a location full of just the right kind of "mice". So I consider this a racist motivation.
You and I are disagreeing on where the racism is coming from.

What worries me abut these kinds of tactics, is that there are kids that might have never been tempted, now have a record. A police record is often detrimental to furthering ones progress in the future. I worry about kids that caved to peer-pressure, and made a stupid choice that will affect them for a long time.

I think there are probably many better ways to address issues in communities.

I agree with you that most people are "moral" but morality is subject to relativity. I'm sure you've heard people say things along the lines of: " Oh, Walmart is a big company they'll never miss this pair of pants I just walked out wearing." Where morality is selective, based on who the victim might be.

Morality is taught, and in some places there are no teachers.

originally posted by: gamer2343

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: gamer2343

What's illegal about picking up a $100 bill lying on the ground .. who does it belong to?

The poster earlier said they’d return it to the police station apparently they’re the most honest person of which I’ve ever had the privilege to converse

Good for them. Let's stop comparing apples and oranges though. The people caught here are breaking the law.

originally posted by: Phage
Entrapment comes to mind.

However, your headline says a car full of bikes.

wouldn't the police have to entice the suspect to commit the crime in order for it to be considered entrapment? encouraging the suspect to break the law?
leaving sneakers in a car, in my opinion, not entrapment. i could walk by a car with cash sitting on the passenger seat and i would not be tempted to take it.

would you have taken the shoes if you walked by?


now, if the shoes would have been light up LA Gear shoes, with my little pony logo on the heel, then i'm breaking some car windows.

a reply to: spacedoubt

Just like Reverend King dreamed.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the content of their character, but by all the disadvantages and excuses we can imagine for them not having any."

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

It's not breaking the law, the speed trap as you defined it is illegal, why do you keep using this argument when I proved it invalid. Speed must be dictated by a survey conducted recently which dictates the speed. Cops putting up a speed sign to create a situation where they will catch people speeding is illegal, and the people caught in this way are not actually breaking the law. The bait does not create a criminal, it catches them.

You didn't address my post one inch...lol what is reasonable...

My speed trap is not illegal in any way... You have a US road with speed limit 55 and at a town limit the speed can be whatever they want it to be, and in this case 25. After you exit the town limit it goes back to 55...very very legal. Now if there is nothing but open fields for 5 miles until you see a building..a town or city limit is still that.

You are suggesting I said cops put up an illegal sign which yes that is illegal, so is that what you based the premise of your point on, putting words in my mouth to fit your narrative?...lol

Back to my point...what is reasonable as a bait situation...

I did address it, many times. The relevant part is highlighted for you. That is wrong, they can not arbitrarily assign it whatever speed they want it to be. Any speed must be backed up by a recent speed survey which determines what the speed can be based on safety reasons. If they assign a low speed for the goal of creating a speed trap, and there is no underlying reason for that lower speed other than to simply create a speed trap, that is illegal.

The speed trap you talk about is ILLEGAL. No one caught is breaking the law. People fight those in court and win. Now if there is an ACTUAL reason why the speed is lower, and people keep speeding anyways, and the police set up a speed trap because people keep going 55 in a school zone, I have no problem with that, do you?