Chicago police confronted for planting bait car full of Nikes in the Ghetto

a reply to: Xtrozero

Depends on how you define it. I don't have a problem with a speed trap, I have a problem when police design a speed trap where a reasonable person trying to obey the law would run afoul.

Are you claiming these people here are trying to obey the law ... by choosing to steal?

a reply to: Tranceopticalinclined

It's on the level of going to a war torn village, and leaving a truck full of food out, then arresting people who steal it. 

No, it's not.

a reply to: gamer2343

Abandoned property has no owner. The things you just described are not illegal.

originally posted by: RadioRobert

Do I like speed traps, or do I think everyone should be allowed to speed because of temptation? "I was late, officer. And I can hardly be responsible. If the city didn't want me to speed, they shouldn't have provided all these smooth, paved roads. You practically made me speed".

You didn't answer my question.. You are on a road and the speed limit is 55 the next speed limit sign is 25 and you take your foot off the gas and happen to pass the sign doing 45 but are slowing down very fast. The cop with his radar gun clocks you at 45 right at the sign...you get a huge ticket...

Do you like speed traps... simple yes or no.

a reply to: Xtrozero

We just removed criminals from the street. My grandma would never have taken the money and nor would I.

I mean why would you put nice things in your house, you are simply enticing someone to break in and steal it, and that's normal and not really wrong .. right?

a reply to: gamer2343

What's illegal about picking up a $100 bill lying on the ground .. who does it belong to?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Exactly,

speed trap in a school zone, great idea, speed trap at the bottom of a steep hill with off ramp merging traffic, bad idea.

It's all about context, and motive, and often it's not in the " public safety " line of sight.

It's a ever squeezing of our expectations and a design to force " drone like qualities " out of the public.

Soon it will be " allowing easy hook up of manual control " in your A.I. car, because humans driving is too much to handle.

Or

Allowing easy conversion of your " altcoins " without a heavy transaction fee.

Stand up for not just your rights, but the rights of all humans, not only to stay safe, but free and united.

-----

a reply to: RadioRobert

And of course it is, just because you don't see mortar shells and bombs, doesn't mean there aren't economic battles being waged.
It's a fight to keep people down, based on color, and when you're not even the victim and able to see it, it's pretty bad, don't be blind, be awake!

originally posted by: gamer2343

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: gamer2343

Again, your original post with those questions was addressed to someone else, not to me.

And I pointed out that your questions are irrelevant.

They aren’t irrelevant, What they are is rhetorical.

My questions are relevant directly to the credibility of your argument.

Your questions are irrelevant. You don't lock your car because it's alright to steal from it, you do it because their are thieves, like the ones in this story. These are the people who are to blame for why we have to lock stuff up .. because there are criminals around.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: RadioRobert

Do I like speed traps, or do I think everyone should be allowed to speed because of temptation? "I was late, officer. And I can hardly be responsible. If the city didn't want me to speed, they shouldn't have provided all these smooth, paved roads. You practically made me speed".

You didn't answer my question.. You are on a road and the speed limit is 55 the next speed limit sign is 25 and you take your foot off the gas and happen to pass the sign doing 45 but are slowing down very fast. The cop with his radar gun clocks you at 45 right at the sign...you get a huge ticket...

Do you like speed traps... simple yes or no.

Was stealing from 18-wheelers legal activity prior to this? Made a new law to catch them going about their law-abiding way? Or is taking things from trucks okay in the city of Chicago, except they enacted a new law that proscribes only Nike theft? Maybe it's okay to steal from trucks in Norwood Park and Beverly, but not in Englewood? Those tricky police...

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: RadioRobert

Do I like speed traps, or do I think everyone should be allowed to speed because of temptation? "I was late, officer. And I can hardly be responsible. If the city didn't want me to speed, they shouldn't have provided all these smooth, paved roads. You practically made me speed".

You didn't answer my question.. You are on a road and the speed limit is 55 the next speed limit sign is 25 and you take your foot off the gas and happen to pass the sign doing 45 but are slowing down very fast. The cop with his radar gun clocks you at 45 right at the sign...you get a huge ticket...

Do you like speed traps... simple yes or no.

I already pointed out why that scenario has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. That is actually not what a speed trap is, and those types of speed traps are often found to be illegal, so the people caught speeding aren't actually breaking the law, the cops are. Next point.

a reply to: BlueAjah

Yeah those question were meant for poster Ketsuko, I think I got mixed up because you also had a similar argument which could’ve applied idk I got them confused somehow my bad, but you still could’ve addressed them.

And well good for you, You still had your own home, You’ve never stolen, You were married before you had your first child, You had both your parents some kids in the ghetto aren’t as privy they don’t have good role models, section 8 and public housing etc..

And I know at some you’ll have to blame the parents but meanwhile I don’t think we should be setting up trucks full of Nikes next to where ghetto poor are playing basketball..

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Xtrozero

Depends on how you define it. I don't have a problem with a speed trap, I have a problem when police design a speed trap where a reasonable person trying to obey the law would run afoul.

Are you claiming these people here are trying to obey the law ... by choosing to steal?

Breaking the law is breaking the law right?

I think you used the right word... "reasonable" The reasonable part is to crate bait that a reasonable person would not take. Back of a pickup truck full of 1 dollar bills in a poor area is not reasonable, having shoes in the trunk of a unlocked car might be. Having the back seat full of new expensive Nike shoes in a car that is unlocked windows down and it sits there for days in a poor black area might not be reasonable.

I keep saying this and no one gets it...

You want to catch criminals and not make criminals.

a reply to: gamer2343

Where did you get that I had my first child before I was married? That's false.
And I guess you missed the part where my kids did not have both parents.

This is not about me.
This is about right and wrong. Being poor does not change what is right and wrong.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: gamer2343

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: gamer2343

Again, your original post with those questions was addressed to someone else, not to me.

And I pointed out that your questions are irrelevant.

They aren’t irrelevant, What they are is rhetorical.

My questions are relevant directly to the credibility of your argument.

Your questions are irrelevant. You don't lock your car because it's alright to steal from it, you do it because their are thieves, like the ones in this story. These are the people who are to blame for why we have to lock stuff up .. because there are criminals around.

I wasn’t say that “You don't lock your car because it's alright to steal from it”

My point was that you don’t leave them unlocked because no one really has a reasonable expectation that if you leave your your home or vehicle somewhere, unattended and unlocked for a certain amount time that your sh# is going to be exactly how you left it.

originally posted by: spacedoubt
a reply to: Hecate666

You feel guilty about stealing because you had some form of role model to let you know that stealing was wrong.

Not everyone has that drilled into them.

Being poverty stricken like you were, is only one ingredient.

This was a racist scenario. They knew in advance, the demographic.
They were baited like fish.


I think given the proper circumstance, people from all demographics would steal.
But the circumstances have to be modified, to provide the right kind of bait.

It isn't racist if it's true. It isn't the fault of statistics if their content happens to show that most crimes in that area are by black people. Statistics have no soul, they just report what is going on. If most crime in an area is committed by black people, why is it racist to report this or anticipate that there will be a very high chance that the next crime is also committed by black people. It's almost as if black people are not real humans.

I also don't see it as racist, as racism would be an unfounded belief that all black people are worse than others.
Seeing statistics and numbers and reporting on it as it is is not racism FFS.

Are black people somehow special? Did I miss anything? If a lot of Chinese people would commit crimes, guess who would be profiled? Please take a minute before you answer. If a lot of white old women would put poison into unsuspected people's drinks, would they nick black young men? Again, take your time.

I hope you found that the profile matches those that mostly commit the crime. Be it white chavs, pakistani grooming gangs or white lady arsenic killers oooooorrrrr b-l-a-c-k people.

I even go as far as to say it is anti racist to treat back people like everyone else instead of granting some sort of special treatment. Those that think blacks can't help themselves stealing trainers put them into a 'special' category, like retards or other challenged people who should not feel the full force of the law, because they are not quite like us...is that what you are saying?

I say, nick them, punish them, round them up when they steal footwear, catch whole gangs by leaving delivery vans open. If they are caught more often it's because they do it more often, no other reason. We are all the product of our own integrity. Seriously.

This whole issue should be really simple. The situation or the environment shouldn't matter at all. Even man made laws hold no sway over the morality of the act.

Does the object belong to you? No? Then it is theft. Simple.

If you didn't make the proper exchange for the object, it is not yours. It doesn't matter if it is a large corporation like WalMart that you personally hate, taking from them is still theft. If the cashier or change machine gives you too much money, it is not yours to take. You didn't make the proper and agreed upon trade to assume that paper.

Morality is something completely devoid from man made rules.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Xtrozero

Depends on how you define it. I don't have a problem with a speed trap, I have a problem when police design a speed trap where a reasonable person trying to obey the law would run afoul.

Are you claiming these people here are trying to obey the law ... by choosing to steal?

Breaking the law is breaking the law right?

I think you used the right word... "reasonable" The reasonable part is to crate bait that a reasonable person would not take. Back of a pickup truck full of 1 dollar bills in a poor area is not reasonable, having shoes in the trunk of a unlocked car might be. Having the back seat full of new expensive Nike shoes in a car that is unlocked windows down and it sits there for days in a poor black area might not be reasonable.

I keep saying this and no one gets it...

You want to catch criminals and not make criminals.

It's not breaking the law, the speed trap as you defined it is illegal, why do you keep using this argument when I proved it invalid. Speed must be dictated by a survey conducted recently which dictates the speed. Cops putting up a speed sign to create a situation where they will catch people speeding is illegal, and the people caught in this way are not actually breaking the law. The bait does not create a criminal, it catches them.

originally posted by: gamer2343

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: gamer2343

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: gamer2343

Again, your original post with those questions was addressed to someone else, not to me.

And I pointed out that your questions are irrelevant.

They aren’t irrelevant, What they are is rhetorical.

My questions are relevant directly to the credibility of your argument.

Your questions are irrelevant. You don't lock your car because it's alright to steal from it, you do it because their are thieves, like the ones in this story. These are the people who are to blame for why we have to lock stuff up .. because there are criminals around.

I wasn’t say that “You don't lock your car because it's alright to steal from it”

My point was that you don’t leave them unlocked because no one really has a reasonable expectation that if you leave your your home or vehicle somewhere, unattended and unlocked for a certain amount time that your sh# is going to be exactly how you left it.

Because of criminals, like the ones caught in this sting.

originally posted by: RadioRobert

Was stealing from 18-wheelers legal activity prior to this? Made a new law to catch them going about their law-abiding way? Or is taking things from trucks okay in the city of Chicago, except they enacted a new law that proscribes only Nike theft? Maybe it's okay to steal from trucks in Norwood Park and Beverly, but not in Englewood? Those tricky police...

You didn't answer my question again...lol

It seems reading your posts you have a subtly of a jack hammer.

What are they trying to solve here? Are they trying to catch some criminals that have been active there, or they doing a morality test across the population of the city with jail/big fines, records for people that typically would got have that as the result of that test.

a reply to: Xtrozero

They are looking to catch criminals. Last I checked that's who steals from vehicles. Every single person caught made a choice to steal, their intent was to break the law.