President Trump Was Successful - North Korea is Dismantling It's War Machine.

a reply to: lordcomac

If you've worn any clothing or bought drapery of some sort made in China, you may have already used a North Korean product. Chinese textile companies have been reportedly using labor in North Korea. If I remember correctly China only has to produce some much of a product to brand it.

Here's a Reuters article about it, ... Warning!.. condition of anonymity..

I read another article on it but cant seem to find it at the moment.

www.reuters.com...

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

If Trump manages to bring peace to Korea he deserves recognition and possibly would genuinely earn himself a peace prize. Personally I would very much like to that happen ,however I'm cynical because the history books tell a different story.

If nothing good comes of it, it will be because someone after Trump decided to derail the progress.

This is good news. And I'm glad to see Pompeo pushing a bit harder, looks like he pushed hard enough for them to show us something since his last meeting.

Very much hope it continues.

It is hard to know if this is good news or not.

Yes, parts of the Sohae missile launch site are being dismantled where rocket-engine test-stand that was used to develop liquid-fuel engines for ballistic missiles.

Problem is North Korea has been testing solid fuel missile engines since at least 2016, they may be dismantling a facility they no longer need.

www.38north.org...

I hesitate to say this is totally meaningless but we all should continue to monitor North Korea's progress with cautious optimism.

Hope for the best, expect the worst.

a reply to: Wayfarer

Lol, what a delightfully colorful euphemism

Thank you!

From my vantage its not a 'no carrot' situation, but rather the carrot is a metaphorical entity representing easing of sanctions which enable said dictator to feed his people more easily (and in that way maintain control through a more humanitarian focused path than before).

That's the "onion and the stick" approach, right? It assumes that Kim Jong Un is wringing his hands in despair because his people are hungry. Not happening. We have to offer him something he wants... that's how it works.

TheRedneck

a reply to: randomtangentsrme

Nah, they got some pretty unique stuff there, to sell.

You know they have strains of Marijuana that don't exist elsewhere?

Buddy, they have some really interesting stuff.

a reply to: carewemust

Liberals have zero foresight. North Korea is sitting on over a trillion dollars of rare earth minerals. We could literally free ourselves from Chinas stranglehold if we partner with north korea.

a reply to: WhyDidIJoin

And that is the big reason why China is hesitant about upsetting North Korea. They don't want any chinks in their armor... the global monopoly they have on materials necessary for almost all technology.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: WhyDidIJoin
a reply to: carewemust

Liberals have zero foresight. North Korea is sitting on over a trillion dollars of rare earth minerals. We could literally free ourselves from Chinas stranglehold if we partner with north korea.

Did you really just plop yourself in your own circular trap? What do you think China would do if we attempted to shift our intake of rare earth minerals from them to NK? Who has zero foresight again?

originally posted by: WhyDidIJoin
a reply to: carewemust

Liberals have zero foresight. North Korea is sitting on over a trillion dollars of rare earth minerals. We could literally free ourselves from Chinas stranglehold if we partner with north korea.

What you speak of is only a very small part of the overall picture that needs to be looked at.

Having all the rare earth minerals you can get your hands on is worthless unless you have the means to innovate and create purposes for those minerals and put them in to production.

We do not have the production capabilities China has and we do not have the same sort of mindset that leads to new innovations that China does.

That is one of the reasons why China's space program is poised to make groundbreaking moves in the near future. They think differently. They think out of the box and are looking towards the future...many years down the road.

The US just concerns itself with what is marketable and profitable for big business.

So to talk about foresight in the way you have is, well, a lack of foresight.

a reply to: introvert

Having all the rare earth minerals you can get your hands on is worthless unless you have the means to innovate and create purposes for those minerals and put them in to production.

You obviously do not understand what the rare earth metals are for. You could have said "Having all the gold you can get your hands on is worthless unless you have the means to innovate and create purposes for the gold and put it in to production" and made as much sense.

Every single technology developed in the last 20 years is in some way dependent on the availability of rare-earth metals. LEDs, computer chips, heck, electronics in general is totally dependent on the rare earth metals, as is much of the newer high-tech materials. One need not have the means to use them; some are literally more valuable than gold to already established industry.

The major thing making Chinese manufacturing so inexpensive, even more than the labor differential, compared to the US is their access to rare earth metals. They export very little compared to what they use, so no one else can intrude on their global monopoly. If rare earth metals were to be discovered in other countries, China's economy would be threatened.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Perhaps you need to read what I posted again.

You can have all the rare earth elements you want and it would not amount to much unless you have the ability to innovate and produce the end products.

In that area, China has us beat handily. They are much better at thinking outside the box and creating ideas/products that the US seems to have an issue doing.

Again, having greater access to rare earth minerals is not going to lessen the stranglehold China has by any means, unless the US can not only compete in production capability (which has nothing to do necessarily with production costs) and bring products to the table that are not available elsewhere (innovation).

a reply to: introvert

You can have all the rare earth elements you want and it would not amount to much unless you have the ability to innovate and produce the end products.

Again, no. The metals have value in and of themselves. That's like saying iron mines are worthless because the owners don't have the ability to make the iron into steel car parts.

In that area, China has us beat handily. They are much better at thinking outside the box and creating ideas/products that the US seems to have an issue doing.

Actually, China is into the business of copying, not innovating. Maybe you're thinking of Japan; Japan has moved beyond the copying stage and is now innovating. Taiwan is moving towards that.

The uses for the resources are developed in the Western countries. We develop the uses for the rare earth metals. China just manufactures based on what we develop, and typically China will entice innovative companies to their shores with promises of profit, and then steal the proprietary discoveries and start making cheap copies. Apple is a good example. Do you realize how easy it is to find iPhone knockoffs from China? Good luck finding an authentic iPhone in China. Still, Apple has been the exception; somehow they have managed to keep their name strong despite the availability of the knockoffs... and I'm sure the US patent laws and aggressive policing of the industry this side of the liquid has helped.

Other companies have not been so fortunate.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Again, no. The metals have value in and of themselves. That's like saying iron mines are worthless because the owners don't have the ability to make the iron into steel car parts.

I did not say rare earth elements did not have value in an of itself.

Again, read what I posted.

You can have all the valuable resources you want at hand, but if you do not find better ways to use them than your competitors, they hold less value than the products others are creating with those resources.

Actually, China is into the business of copying, not innovating. Maybe you're thinking of Japan; Japan has moved beyond the copying stage and is now innovating. Taiwan is moving towards that.

True. They do like to copy what others has created, but they are innovating new technologies and such, and are willing to take the time that is needed to work the bugs out of those technologies.

One good example is their use of solar energy technologies and converting waste products in to energy.

Those innovations and new ways of thinking are manifesting itself in places such as their space programs. Things that we simply are not doing.

Jim Oberg did an interview a while back and he talks about the Chinese, their way of thinking and the innovations they are working towards. Very informative and is a good example of how simply having resources is not as valuable as what you can do with those resources.

Thanks,for proving what we already knew. Trump supporters aren’t real smart. a reply to: carewemust

a reply to: introvert

I did not say rare earth elements did not have value in an of itself.

Again, read what I posted.

You can have all the valuable resources you want at hand, but if you do not find better ways to use them than your competitors, they hold less value than the products others are creating with those resources.

Here is what you posted:

originally posted by: introvert

Having all the rare earth minerals you can get your hands on is worthless unless you have the means to innovate and create purposes for those minerals and put them in to production.

You used the term worthless. I disagreed. Rare earth metals have a very great worth even in a raw state.

There is not a single resource on the planet that is not worth more refined/utilized than in it's raw state. That does not render such resources worthless.

True. They do like to copy what others has created, but they are innovating new technologies and such, and are willing to take the time that is needed to work the bugs out of those technologies.

They are, in that respect, where Japan was 40 years ago. Japan is still catching up to us, although they are quite good. I'm especially interested in their work on androids... humanoid general purpose robotics. They may well have surpassed us there.

One good example is their use of solar energy technologies and converting waste products in to energy

There is nowhere near the research going on in China compared to what I am personally knowledgeable about in one US University. You are moving into an area I am intimately familiar with.

Solar cells are one of the technologies that relies heavily on rare earth metals. There is little to no manufacturing of such going on in the West, because we do not have ready access to cheap rare earth metals. China does. Thus, we do the research and China builds the cells using our research. That would be a decent trade off, except that China does not reimburse us for our research. If they did, maybe there would be more research in private industry instead of it all being supported by government grants. There is no profit to be made researching something if the research is then stolen and used by someone who has superior access to materials.

Jim Oberg did an interview a while back and he talks about the Chinese, their way of thinking and the innovations they are working towards.

I'm aware of the cultural chasm between us. Western culture craves instant satisfaction, while Chinese culture values long-term goals... sometimes spanning generations. They hold a major advantage in that. The Chinese also intend to dominate in several areas of technology as one of those goals, and as long as we do the research for them, they can do it easily because of their superior access to the materials needed.

We're back to the importance of rare earth metals, which North Korea has as well as China. As a trading partner with China, North Korea is a massive asset to them. As a trading partner to the world, North Korea is an economic threat.

TheRedneck

Thanks to Trump? LOL...

This was directly related to Nuclear Mountain collapsing. Sanctions may have had a solid impact, so kudos to Trump on those. But giving all credit to Trump is laughable. SK had already nailed down the agreement (that Trump basically used during the summit), and NK due to their nuclear program being severely hampered, did the only thing that made sense. Even Kim couldn't disagree with the premise that.. nuclear testing grounds gone.. time to renegotiate to ease sanctions.

Holy crap you Trump supporters are SO enamored with the guy, you find it impossible.. IMPOSSIBLE.. to give credit where it is due. Or fail to NOT heap praise on Trump, even if his involvement was minimal. Which is a Trump tactic. Take credit for EVERYTHING. His sheep are lapping that up.. and passing it along. Pathetic.

Trump absolutely had some impact. But he wasn't the impetus. He was in fact, the opposite of impetus. Every time he threatened NK with nuclear fire and destruction, Kim would ratchet up testing and threats against the U.S. Clearly Trump was only antagonizing Kim. Only after the collapse and fallout around their nuclear testing facilities, did Kim start talking with.. SOUTH KOREA. Not Trump. The Trump summit was just a great time for Kim to thump his chest.

Give credit where it is due. But stop heaping every achievement solely on Trump, it's disgusting and not remotely close to accurate.

Republicans are gullible look who they elected.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: carewemust

A positive step in the right direction.

Yes indeed! Whatever makes people of a region feel safer, also enables them lead happier lives. That's a truism, which is immune to cynics and the demon possessed.

Lol, 'Demon-possessed'?????

a reply to: TheRedneck

You used the term worthless. I disagreed. Rare earth metals have a very great worth even in a raw state. There is not a single resource on the planet that is not worth more refined/utilized than in it's raw state. That does not render such resources worthless.

Of course they would not be completely worthless. I think you are missing the point and are arguing points of very little consequence to the overall point I am making.

As for the rest of your post, you seem to be proving my point. We have access to these materials, but little to no manufacturing. It's not because we do not have access to the materials. It's because we have no manufacturing base for such industries.

Again, we can get our hands on all the materials you want, but it is "worthless", or perhaps pointless, if you are just going to do research on things that we do not have a manufacturing base to produce and have to farm out to other countries anyway.

In fact, it's that sort of shortsightedness that led us to where we are today.