President Trump Was Successful - North Korea is Dismantling It's War Machine.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: network dude
I can't help but think that Kim realized his legacy, and may well be gearing towards a genuine peace. If he did this, he would be the greatest leader North Korea has ever seen. And yes, I realize what he did before, and who his family is. But if he brought his people out of the stone age and let NK become part of the trade system, the rest of the free world enjoys, he would be recognized as an amazing leader.

Maybe he has some plan to pull the rug out at the last second, but if that happened, he'd only be right back where he was prior to Trump trying to meet with him. So for us, it's hard to see a down side.

This is a fairy tale. Kim's power is incumbent upon keeping his people starving and in the dark ages. He would never relinquish any kind of control that would afford citizens things like internet access or even regular communication with other countries.

Perhaps not. maybe he is just playing a game and wants to stick his tongue out at Trump. But as I said, if that's the case, things are back to exactly where they were before. So no harm, no foul.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: network dude
I can't help but think that Kim realized his legacy, and may well be gearing towards a genuine peace. If he did this, he would be the greatest leader North Korea has ever seen. And yes, I realize what he did before, and who his family is. But if he brought his people out of the stone age and let NK become part of the trade system, the rest of the free world enjoys, he would be recognized as an amazing leader.

Maybe he has some plan to pull the rug out at the last second, but if that happened, he'd only be right back where he was prior to Trump trying to meet with him. So for us, it's hard to see a down side.

This is a fairy tale. Kim's power is incumbent upon keeping his people starving and in the dark ages. He would never relinquish any kind of control that would afford citizens things like internet access or even regular communication with other countries.

... no harm, no foul...

As Zen master says, "we'll see"

I genuinely hope you're right though...

a reply to: Wayfarer

perhaps I'm being dismissive. What bad things could come from this falling apart that didn't already exist?

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Wayfarer

perhaps I'm being dismissive. What bad things could come from this falling apart that didn't already exist?

Off the top of my head, the most obvious that jumps to mind is the ripple effects from legitimizing Kim's regime, and any possible easing of sanctions without reciprocity in effect for the US.

In essence, Trump's meeting was a repudiation of decades long US policy decrying the Jong-Un regime as despotic and totalitarian. To finally backtrack and endorse them in any way besmirches US counter rhetoric to the atrocities Kim commits.

a reply to: Wayfarer

Indeed, if it's the same unusable site..this is a nothingburger.

Dismantling one site hardly equals “the war machine.”

Let me know when they’ve verifiably ended their nuclear program.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Wayfarer

perhaps I'm being dismissive. What bad things could come from this falling apart that didn't already exist?

Off the top of my head, the most obvious that jumps to mind is the ripple effects from legitimizing Kim's regime, and any possible easing of sanctions without reciprocity in effect for the US.

In essence, Trump's meeting was a repudiation of decades long US policy decrying the Jong-Un regime as despotic and totalitarian. To finally backtrack and endorse them in any way besmirches US counter rhetoric to the atrocities Kim commits.

pretending he doesn't exist isn't realistic. He is the leader of NK, even if none of us like it or him.
It almost seems as if you think shaming him and then ignoring him as has been the policy of the past is still the right way to go. Or am I missing something?

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Wayfarer

perhaps I'm being dismissive. What bad things could come from this falling apart that didn't already exist?

Off the top of my head, the most obvious that jumps to mind is the ripple effects from legitimizing Kim's regime, and any possible easing of sanctions without reciprocity in effect for the US.

In essence, Trump's meeting was a repudiation of decades long US policy decrying the Jong-Un regime as despotic and totalitarian. To finally backtrack and endorse them in any way besmirches US counter rhetoric to the atrocities Kim commits.

pretending he doesn't exist isn't realistic. He is the leader of NK, even if none of us like it or him.
It almost seems as if you think shaming him and then ignoring him as has been the policy of the past is still the right way to go. Or am I missing something?

Its not pretending he doesn't exist; its stymieing any advantage whatsoever he might have. To do any action contrary to that emboldens him and his regime.

a reply to: carewemust
They already make things everyone can use.
NK exports

a reply to: Wayfarer

Its not pretending he doesn't exist; its stymieing any advantage whatsoever he might have. To do any action contrary to that emboldens him and his regime.

Sounds like all stick - no carrot.

Coming from someone who lived during a time when some still worked mules, that the fastest way to get your teeth kicked down your throat.

TheRedneck

While it is a show for the public, and it is a show, ultimately the final result has to be a real peace treaty between north and south Korea, putting an end to the Korean conflict.

While they have pictures, from a satellite, however, that only shows so much, and we really do not know what all they are doing, as information is slow to come from North Korea, and ultimately is often controlled by the state.

The question has to be this: Is this being done for the benefit of the world, a show, where it can be argued for relaxing of the sanctions and are they turning around and starting up a new facility?

a reply to: TheRedneck

We've seen how Obama's deals went..
60s and 70s, Iran was our buddy when the Shah was still alive...

And doesn't N.K.have over 3,000 tunnels dug into their country of mountains?

Destroy 1-10 above ground installations...underground who knows?

And we never mention these countries may have already PURCHASED a few nukes in storage...what we always believed..expected...just waiting.

So what? Tell the world we stopped making 'em....but we still GOT some...

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Wayfarer

Its not pretending he doesn't exist; its stymieing any advantage whatsoever he might have. To do any action contrary to that emboldens him and his regime.

Sounds like all stick - no carrot.

Coming from someone who lived during a time when some still worked mules, that the fastest way to get your teeth kicked down your throat.

TheRedneck

Lol, what a delightfully colorful euphemism

From my vantage its not a 'no carrot' situation, but rather the carrot is a metaphorical entity representing easing of sanctions which enable said dictator to feed his people more easily (and in that way maintain control through a more humanitarian focused path than before). (Almost)Nobody in the US wants to go to war with NK, so we weren't going to be stupid enough to hold a patently false carrot over their head (like what is being bandied about now).

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: musicismagic
Its good news.
As a Vietnam vet who taught to hate and kill the enemy in Vietnam, well, now we buy guitars from them. Better to make good music with friendship.

That's a mind-opening remark you made. I wonder what we'll be buying from North Korea in 5 years?

Nothing. Their economy is a trainwreck. You do know that the South Korean Government is terrified of the thought of unification don't you? Why, I hear you ask? The place is a hell-hole. The infrastructure is a shambles, the place is reliant on Chinese assistance, at night you barely see the place from space (very, very, few streetlights), the average North Korean is significantly shorter than the average South Korean due to poor nutrition... where do you want me to stop?
I'd like to add that the news of the dismantling of part of the rocket test facility is still unverified and that if China is really annoyed at the economic tariffs then it will tell North Korea to tell Trump to drop dead. And North Korea will do just that.

Great. Now that they're not going to be spending tons of money on a military, they can flood us with cheap consumer products, putting more of our citizens out of work.

It's definitely a smarter way to go than to try to out-bomb us. We gots all the bombs.

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: musicismagic
Its good news.
As a Vietnam vet who taught to hate and kill the enemy in Vietnam, well, now we buy guitars from them. Better to make good music with friendship.

That's a mind-opening remark you made. I wonder what we'll be buying from North Korea in 5 years?

Nothing. It will take more than 5 years for them to have industry.

Make it ten- but we'll be buying ores from them. Very mineral rich land, isn't it? Practically virgin, they've never had the technology to mine it.

It's a testing facility. When you have a working product why would you need a testing facility.

originally posted by: hillbilly4rent
It's a testing facility. When you have a working product why would you need a testing facility.

Ongoing research, development, improvements, etc. come to mind.

Dismantling arsenal? That would be great news....

or hiding the arsenal?

At this point it's anyone's guess because there is no one there to verify. There are no international inspectors present.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: carewemust

A positive step in the right direction.

Yes indeed! Whatever makes people of a region feel safer, also enables them lead happier lives. That's a truism, which is immune to cynics and the demon possessed.